In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

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Master comment here

Spoiler: Old comment

General

[-] Make Echo's range map wide.

Why?: Fits with the skill name and a good QoL. Eliminates awkward situations where one or a few pt member(s) is out of range for Echo. Makes echo'ing in FM more helpful for other players too!

 

Spoiler: General Problem with Class Balancing

Do you guys realize that this is going the exact same way as back in the days (e.g. 2006) when Maple was destroyed by the communities greed?
Except you make it worse since there is only whacky pre-BB mechanics and the only thing you do is thinking about End-Game Bossing.

How are these proposed buffs doing any good overall? How is that nostalgic?? Why is it that most people suggest a buff for THEIR class?

The only obvious thing nostalgic here is the greed, which is not leading to anything productive at all. This has nothing to do anymore with Nostalgic Mushroom killing, meeting people and having some fun - its even worse than the actual Maple now which has really good solo content while having meaningless Bossing as main purpose anyway - since Royals almost only offers dead content along with the only thing that is left, which is meaningless Bossing.

Playing Royals is simply a Capitalism simulator nowadays which is super depressing - and all these shitty buffs are only accelerating the problem, since it will never be enough.

As I see it its not the classes, the problem are the players. The problem is that people rather wait 15 min for another NL instead of going with for instance a second BM and completing the boss in overall 10 minutes less. But they rather waste time than having fun. It makes no sense at all and is quite depressing to see.

The problem here for me is that every proposed buff here is ONLY about End-Game content and mostly about End-Game BOSSING, nothing else is considered.

To comment on BM:

It is not even true that you wont join a Pt as SE if no NL is present. Simply not true. Also having more than 1 SE in a party will always be bad since there is many more jobs than 6 slots and why should there be 2 of the same kind, makes no sense tbh*. SE is incredibly useful as it is anway.
On top of that I see a tendency of going away from SE mules again, as I am again able to do CWK as main SE without any mule. Think of that, how crazy is that. I wasnt able to play that content last year anymore. I think the greedy SE muling made a lot of BM leave (like me for some time) or switch classes and now there is a need for SE players again?

Concentrate is a really useful skill. Reduced Mana Usage and on top I get a lot of W. Att., which I use all the time when not Bossing with others. But I am using it all the time when doing solo content.

Archer Summons: It makes no sense to buff the Archer summons without considering the Anti-Botter thing that is in place. Unless again this is all about End-Game bossing anyway. Apart from end-game bossing (assuming summons do not dc people), summons are useless dead content now apart from afk-farming, which the anti-botter thing was meant to combat. Buffs will not change anything here.

If you give archers more stance, more avoid, then other classes want some as well. And this will go on forever until all content is dead and meaningless.

Dont buff BM, it will not change anything!! BM is good as it is. It is a multi-purpose class. It does decent damage while having several useful buffs and abilities.

Spoiler: *

I realized some mega smart bums will now say "aha there you go, you said there should be 2 BM in a party instead of waiting 15 min in the first place". The first is, that it is stupid to wait for a LAST slot so long instead of just going. The second is, it is not good buffing BM to stand as a DMG contestor since it yields one of the most powerful party buffs in the game.

 

Playing on a server that has:

• 3.2x exp, 4x meso, 4x+ drop
• NX given freely via daily vote/boss drops instead of buying it with real money
• Full inventory upon character creation and 6 possible characters on account instead of unlocking it with real money
  
• NX items you can buy in Free Market (Smegas, Owls, etc)
• Skill changes to 4th jobs, making Paladin/Shadower/Bucc more viable
• and etc

Ummm.. I think you got lost somewhere

 

What kind of logic is that? So why have two drks/ two heroes / two nls / two pallys / two buccs? Even if you take away TL no one complains about having two buccs, even tho SI doesn't stack.

What's your source on that?

Exclude NL's for a second, SE at 37.4% total dmg bonus compared to SI at 62.8%, that's "incredibly" useful to you? You want our ceiling crippled because we're extra useful to NLs? We should be able to stand on our own two feet the way buccs do and not have to be carried around in an NLs cradle.

That's how you determine a decrease in SE mules? Maybe its because they reduced it from 10 characters to 5....or maybe because SE's have the most demanding room that cannot be muled in the first place. At 8.5k range with stoppers it will still take you 4-5 minutes.

You are getting 1 more wa than a gizer for 4 minutes before you have to wait another 2 minutes to use it again, whereas a gizer gives you 25wa for 30 minutes.......Concentrate is "really" useful???? Maybe it's because of the 15 mana pots you save?

Let me tell you why people ask for buffs to their class instead of nerfs. Once you give a player that power, they will not want to give it up, for example nerfing nl/shads avoid and having 10 pages of anger. What people would rather have, is that other classes got slight buffs to balance it to where no more nerfs and buffs are needed. How can you call BM a mulit purpose class? At a very basic level in a team setting we give a damage buff mainly to NL's, and we slow auf/v2, we do near bottom of the barrel single target damage, and abysmal multi target damage. Do I need to tell you what the other classes are capable of? Do you not think Shadowers smokescreen is useful? So they have great single/multi target damage, whilst providing utility. Do you not think Buccs TL/SI is useful? So they have great single/multi target damage, whilst providing utility. NL's provide insane damage, get to fall asleep with their avoid, and are very mobile. You will not convince me that things are balanced for BM with your wild claims and no evidence. In 2019 BM were ranked 4th in dps according to Staffs own numbers, https://royals.ms/forum/threads/4th-job-skill-changes.135025/. Other classes received significant buffs, whilst BM evolved into a lackluster class.

 

He misses when Shadowers had to use Meso Explosion in all their runs and the players suffering from Carpal Tunnel

 

You end up severallines with a ?...

Are those retorical questions?
-If youre too firm with your beliefs then thres no point in reply, but if youre actually open to different opinions most of your questions have clear answers that, might not be too on board with some of your beliefs.

 

Bm are good but need more crit and maybe move with hurricane

 

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Master comment here

Spoiler: Old comment

Pirates - Buccaneer:
[-] Oak Barrel's failure rate removed

Why?: The failure rate on this skill just makes this skill unsatisfying to use. If the failure rate was removed, then it'd become a decent alternative to Dark Sight and people could reliably gather a Thief/Brawler for LPQ and Marauder would have more ease in PPQ when dropping keys. The duration/cooldown should remain the same to make it slightly distinct against Dark Sight but still a similar skill.

[-] Oak Barrel can be used while in Transformation

Why?: QoL. Feels clunky when you used transform but have to debuff it to use barrel to drop keys in PPQ and then can't Transform again due to Transform cooldown. If you could just Barrel while in Tranform, then it'd make things feel a lot smoother.

 

But it would make Von Leon Pirate room extremely easy no?

 

I wasn't aware of Buccaneer's using Barrel in Von Leon prison room. If Staff intended for Barrel to be used then they can just ignore what I wrote (like other suggestions in the thread). If Buccs were supposed to do Pirate room in another way, then all they need to do is just disable the skill in the map.

 

Make arrow rain useable mid air (you can jump att already if you click same time sometimes)
Buff concrete to min 50att
30 4th sp for energizer 1m pot with cd
You can just delete the skill tbh
Stack with pots or 50.
Also faster hurricane cast and or moving while shooting.
Also make arrow rain hit box bigger its tiny

overall bm are in a bad spot you can see it in the fm

also generally
Mule meta= bad

 

About all Pally ideas Listed on thread ill say what i think:

Paladin

• 2h Blunt Weapons: increase base atk by 10-20 - AGREE
  
• Blast: allow it to exceed the current 199,999 damage cap - AGREE (asap implement it to fix pala)

• Guardian:
  • Keep the block chance active at all times, but the push effect becomes toggleable
  • Both the block chance and push effect are toggled together
  • Remove the stun and knockback

About guardian i dont think should change anything, the kick back helps me a LOT , when i am in AUF it helps ALWAYS and dont need bring one bucc to do that, so my opnion DONT NEED CHANGE

• Fix Threaten - AGREE
  
• Power Guard: reduce the incoming Magic damage - AGREE
  
• Power Stance: buff from 90% to 95% -AGREE

• Total Crash: Revert it back to an active skill and not a buff

About Total Crash, since it is a BUFF now lot of pts recruit Paladin looks easier to get a PT and dont need bring 3 cr mule for a run, if revert it will back lot of mules in run
To fix the actual Crash is= higher range, cuz still ridiculous range in this buff
Or as i was discussing with @xDarkomantis in game, merging ATT and MATT cancel together and the boss summon special mobs that u need to kill so the cancel is removed. and than make the Crash a DEF crash

Spoiler: CRASH IDEA

Weapon and Magic Cancel are put together and Bosses will now spawn strong mobs that the squad(s) need to clear before the cancel is removed. These mobs may have one or more characteristics such as:

• Higher level and HP than their regular counterparts
• Have Attack/Defense Up that needs to be dispelled by Bishop/Warriors
• Having High Knockback and Speed buff/Slow debuff on themselves (requiring Rushers to move them)
• High Avoid stat
• Casting debuffs on squad(s)

Additionally, bosses may start healing themselves or perform certain actions if their summoned mobs aren't killed in a set amount of time.

This change allows for a reduction of Cancels while reducing/eliminating downtimes caused by the OG cancels and possibly make the fight more engaging.

But i still think keeping the CR as Buff is a good idea just need better Range on it

• Fire/Lightning/Ice/Holy charge: reduce the skill delay- AGREE
  
• Ice Charge: increase the freeze duration -AGREE
  
• Heaven’s Hammer: Reduce its skill delay -AGREE
  
• Advance Combo Blow:
  • increase its range -AGREE
    
  • fix its stun - AGREE
  • fix success rate bug/change success rate to 100% at level 1 -AGREE

Others Skills Ideas:

- Shield Mastery:

• Improve acc and avoid for each lv

I think is fair for who uses shield, we already spend a lot of skill points in guardian that could be used in others skills, and this Shield mastery doesnt help anything anyway, would help who uses shield.

 

I'm going to comment on BUFFING the BOWMASTER class. My goal would be to make Bowmasters a relevant main character contender, and not just a walking pt buff. Bowmasters should be known for their single-target damage, SE, and their crit rate.

In my own opinion, we don't need any stance or dual bird summons. Phoenix doesn't need an attack buff, and making db work on LHC mobs would be a luxury, and while it wouldn't break the game, we don't necessarily need it either.

I'm fine with gaining more avoidability via Focus, because we're an extremely squishy class. However, we don't need a shifter like ability like some have suggested for concentrate. Leave the god-like avoidability to the thieves.

My point is, it's completely fine for classes to have their own unique set of tools in their kit.
Warriors are tanky af, can rush mobs/bosses, hit hard numbers with fewer lines (good for kbing bosses, scarga p3 as example), and each have their own utility for party play (crash, hb, rage except rage NEEDS to stack with attk pots/buffs).
Thieves have extremely high avoid, asmazing damage potential, better than most mobbing capabilities, they're quick, and they're often essential in any boss run whether it's NL for their damage or shads due to their damage and smokescreen.
Mages are the only class that can sell leech due to best mobbing in the game, don't need to hp wash to do most content other classes would need to wash for, do OK boss damage, and have great mobility.
Pirates do some of the most damage with the least funding (and top dps WITH funding), are tanky in their own rights, have (imo) the most unique skill sets due to being released later on, and ofcourse Buccs have the best pt buff in the game in SI with sair being top dps.
Bowman have an amazing pt buff in SE, highest crit rate, amazing puppet skill for soloing content, and OK dmg against bosses. MM have alright mobbing and the strongest single target skill in the game.

BM don't need it all. However, BM's current toolkit is simply lacking at what it's supposed to do. Currently, BM provide SE.... That's it. Idk if it's the player base or what, but if a pt needs more attackers but already has SE, they don't care how strong of a BM you are they look past you. This is not okay lol. Having highest crit in game doesn't matter if our raw damage can't back it up.

BM can't mob, can't solo content nearly as quickly as other classes with similar funding especially earlier on, we're extremely squishy, our damage is no where near NL or sair, and we do low numbers meaning we can't pin certain bosses like literally almost every other class can.

Here are my proposed suggestions (buffs) to fix this issue. Not all should/need to happen, but I'd say anything on this list should be considered:

1. Add ~25% more damage to Hurricane. Straight up. 10k range bm can do ~30k crits with hurricane currently, bumping this up closer to 37.5k I think would make us feel closer to NL/Sair. Not sure how Sair's hurricane does 200% dmg but its probably because of weapon multiplier and gun attk values being lower than bows.
2. Remove concentrate CD and/or allow it to be stacked with att pots. BMs don't scale this skill until later anyway so it would be a nice buff to have for late game. A buff to crit rate from this skill would be nice too, I mean I wouldn't complain! But no I don't think it's needed.
3. Allow Phoenix and Puppet to show remaining duration in top right buff corner, and allow us to unsummon both via right clicking their new buff icon.
4. Would be nice to increase Arrow Rain vertical range a bit, but not needed. This or as buff to Inferno to actually make it usable/worth maxing.

The main thing we lack is damage, which is bittersweet. It means it's a very simple fix (relatively speaking), but it is also the most frustrating thing to lack as a "DPS" class and BM main.

CONTENT CHANGE
Similar to the neo city boss changes made so melee can better fight the boss, a change should be made to the interaction between big foot and the BM class. BMs are awful at killing big foot, which makes us the only DPS class that can't kill him efficiently. We get like 3-5 ish hurricane arrows in him every other few seconds. NL get to steadily attack him just about, buccs can spam Demo and have 100% uptime dmg, same thing for sairs iirc, and ofcourse shads can bomb him for free as well. Keep in mind these classes hit WAY MORE than hurricanes 100% dmg, AND that they do more hits/lines of dmg than us in their respective windows... making us kill BF THAT MUCH slower. How this isn't brought up is beyond me. IMO BF should be something BM excel at since we are ranged.

My proposition to make this interaction better is to change how BFs iframes work or to change how hurricane interacts with him where more of our arrows hit him before the iframe triggers. I would have suggest to make strafe be able to hit him 100% of the time if spammed, while keeping him pinned, but strafe is ALSO just 100% dmg meaning we'd go from 3-5 arrows hitting bf to 4.. So not much would change.


Feel free to reply with feedback. I've played this class for forever, and I hate to see it be a walking pt buff. Let BMs reputation of a walking pt buff be replaced with us being known for providing some of the best dmg in the game, in any party that we join. Don't let us down!

 

Hey staff and folks! If this thread's still open for feedback, I'd like to add my thoughts & suggestions below:

Hero:

• Panic & Coma Attack:
  
  • use 1-orb instead of all orbs, as currently, it's more worth-it to have fully charged combo attack for better dpm through 3rd-job... I find I only use panic attack once in a while, and as a might-as-well right before combo-attack expires. And this would allow more appealing variety in playing 3rd-job instead of using power strike / slash blast from 1st job all the way through to 4th job.
• Enrage (asides from the already mentioned ideas):
  • reduce cooldown from 360 seconds to 240 seconds (to match buff time); but this would need to be considered with the other proposed reworks for enrage (i.e., if enrage ends up becoming very beneficial, then a cd longer than buff duration makes sense... if it just provides a slight edge for heroes, then matching cd to buff time would be nice)
• Brandish
  • increasing damage between 20% to 40% when attacking a single mob -- this would be nice, but I'd personally be content/satisfied with just seeing an increase of at least 20% added plainly to brandish (esp. if the former would be cumbersome or difficult for staff to implement)
• Advanced combo attack (asides from the already mentioned ideas):
  • Increase % chance to recharge 2 combo orbs from 80% to 100%; it would be nice to be able to get to fully-charged combo attack in less time as heroes are the only class that need a few moments to ramp-up to their optimal dps every time they buff
• Power stance (for heroes/paladins/dark knights):
  • Agree with the idea to increase %knockback resistance from 90 to 95%

Buccaneer (asides from the already mentioned ideas):

• Super Transformation:
  • Increase its duration to 200s instead of the proposed 180s; it'd be nice to match it with the duration of knuckle booster which is 200s, and would scale well with max super transformation lv 20, i.e., where the duration increases by +10s per skill point

 

Archers:

• 10% Higher Base Crit (40 %-> 50%) or Adjust the damage formula while reducing overall WA values for archers

No point just raising WA by 20-30 when the class is flawed in terms of scaling with higher WA.

• Due to its high base weapon attack (Bow/Crossbow, Bow Expert/Crossbow Expert, Arrows), additional weapon attack being added from CGS, Att pot becomes less significant due to the partial derivative of Range with respect to WA being low compared to other classes.
• Bowmaster in particular, loses significant amount of DPS from kb due to the skill being canceled while being knock-backed.

Simplified explanation:
Adding 1 WA to 100 WA is roughly equal to 1% increase in dps while adding 1 WA to 200 WA is about 0.5%.

The reason why NL and BUCC feel like they scale well with WA is because those are the two classes with the lowest base WA (~125 ATT for NL, 123 ATT for BUCC).
Consequently, gain in WA through CGS, Acc, ATT Pots results in higher % increase compared to base value.

In comparison, Archer base WA sits at around 165 Att: 145 Att from weapon, 10 from arrow, 10 from passive skill. (Rip MM, even higher base).
As a result, Archers hit the region of diminishing return for upgrades much quicker compared to other classes.

*This is a rough estimate to show the general trend but it still captures the fundamental problem

NL: 125 -> 126 : 0.8% increase

BM: 165 -> 166 : 0.6% increase

From the very 1st WA gain that is not from class exclusive item/skill/passive, its 25% less effective of an upgrade for Archers.

Assuming 60 WA gain from gears/acc:

NL: 185 -> 186 : 0.54% increase

BM: 225 - > 226 :0.44% increase

At later stages around 19% less effective of an upgrade

Assuming 160 WA gain from gear/acc/apple: (Bossing condition)

NL: 285->286 : 0.35% increase

BM: 325 -> 326 : 0.31% increase

Under end-game conditions for bossing 11% less effective of an upgrade

TLDR: Archer scaling to WA is the worst in the game, hence less incentive to upgrade much sooner.

I don't think archers need a set-goal for how much DPS they should be able to do (x% of NL etc...). I do believe just from SE and hamstring they already have an extremely important role in parties.
But I really think for those who seriously want to "main" archers, the progression shouldn't feel so worthless due to the systematic flaw.

 

increase dex avoidability ratio

I personally don’t care about flat dmg increases. Feel like if bowmen classes get hit less often that alone will make piloting the class less painful and have higher dpm, especially BM as hurricane getting canceled is pretty scuffed.

I could write a short story about my battles with top left corner Horntail rock.

 

jokes on u that rock is 100% hit

 

can't remember if I already posted this here...

- Buff ninja ambush just enough to barely make it worth using on like zak arms...

-Taunt doesn't seem to work if it kills the enemy outright. I understand this is to make you have to face the *gasp* +40% weapon defense buff that the enemy gets, but lets be honest, we're talking about mobs here... You're killing them so fast anyways, all this does it punish you for being strong enough to 1 hit stuff with Taunt. I think it would be reasonable to allow Taunt to work even if it 1 shots the enemy, thus rewarding you for being strong enough to 1 shot. This is a long shot, but it would be "fun" if Taunt would work on bosses at a 10% effectiveness, meaning you can hit a boss with it before it dies to get +4% drop rate

 

No, nothing of that stuff above takes away the nostalgic aspect of the game, since all these QoL things just make it possible to play as an adult. What kills the nostalgia is this pointless toxic competitive behaviour in a Non-PVP game, which kills the nostalgic aspect completely.

But even if the things above a part of the problem (e.g. the rates definitely are) it is not an argument for going down the road even more.

Buccs have been overpowered in recent buffs, they are now a mixture of a multi role character and a carry which is really bad design. Making BM the same while even excluding MM is just plain bad decision making.

So you are arguing that SE is not that useful, while I am simply stating that SE is one of the best buffs in the game and thereby incredibly useful. It is one of the most thought-after skills by smega overall. But I guess you will simply disagree to anything I say so we have nothing to discuss about anyway.

Concentrate is really useful for decreased mana consumption while giving you a significant dmg buff of 27 w att, and it can be used with 2 stoppers in alternation while doing solo content. It is really usefull for that, not so much in major boss battles where it is only useful to "bridge" some off-time between major pot timings.

people are just greedy and selfish that is why. Not a single problem will be solved by buffing classes in a NON PVP game, taht is only PVP because of the destructive competition forced upon it by a "Not-so-much-Community-anymore".

It is not true, that BM was not buffed. In contrast, especially BM got a significant Buff by the +10 W.Att arrow mechanic, which is especially significant for high-attack-speed dmg types. It is similar to little W.Att increases for Marines in Star Craft 2 * (dmg formula for Watt and blabla I know but I am talking about the concept here), minimal damage increase will matter if your unit is attacking really fast. The problem for these units then is W. Defense, where there is an intersting option in Maple: Warriors. It is just not played but this interaction is super useful and really good in boss runs.

I dont like how you disqualify my opninion in contrast to your opinion by stating that my opinion stands vs your facts.
The balance whine on Mapleroyals has gone way beyond anything like "I wanna finish a boss run but I also got real life matter to attend to as an adult, so please make it more playable as time is short for us" and reached a toxic and pointless environment of greed and envy which simply leads to the slow death of a MMORPG.
Balancing yes, buffing no. It is absolutely detremental, and it happens in EVERY MMORPG. Big studios encounter this by simply providing more Adrenaline Kicks and they are able to do so by providing the man power needed to do that. Royals will not be able to cope with the increased speed and therefore simply die.
This game is NON PVP and centered about social interaction, it should not have to be PVP! Blame the players, not the game.

BM is the only class that can pin BF with Hurricane and Hamstring Shot in the open field by utilising their puppet.
BM has a puppet to play multiple roles not only in solo play.
BM can SUMMON FARM while still being able to serve as an attacker.
When I compare my Bucc to BM, BM is way better at mobbing by simply Hurricane + stutter step so its not that bad for mobbing, on top it has several AOE skills as well. It is just not a mage.
BM is multirole, it can do everything, but it is not best in anything.

Why make BM a shitty competitor to carry classes just to provoke more balance complaints?

BM is not optimal for BF, I agree, but it is also not that bad at all, having super easy pin and their puppet - makes it really not that bad at BF.
If you change BF for the sake of BM (while completely ignoring MM, which has way more "problems" than BM by far!), you take it away from warriors even more, which is simply not fair.

Please dont buff BM. Balance yes, buff no.

Please dont make Hurricane continuous, it will fuck up the crisp repositioning possibility by stutter stepping Hurricane.

Please dont buff BM Avoid, getting knocked down in HT and Zak is simply due to player failure.

 

@KungLee
"
BM is the only class that can pin BF with Hurricane and Hamstring Shot in the open field by utilising their puppet.
BM has a puppet to play multiple roles not only in solo play.
BM can SUMMON FARM while still being able to serve as an attacker.
When I compare my Bucc to BM, BM is way better at mobbing by simply Hurricane + stutter step so its not that bad for mobbing, on top it has several AOE skills as well. It is just not a mage.
BM is multirole, it can do everything, but it is not best in anything.

Why make BM a shitty competitor to carry classes just to provoke more balance complaints?

BM is not optimal for BF, I agree, but it is also not that bad at all, having super easy pin and their puppet - makes it really not that bad at BF.
If you change BF for the sake of BM (while completely ignoring MM, which has way more "problems" than BM by far!), you take it away from warriors even more, which is simply not fair.

Please dont buff BM. Balance yes, buff no.

Please dont make Hurricane continuous, it will fuck up the crisp repositioning possibility by stutter stepping Hurricane.

Please dont buff BM Avoid, getting knocked down in HT and Zak is simply due to player failure."

1. How late in the game does a Bowmaster scale Hamstring shot? Go ahead, I'll wait. Meanwhile, my Bucc, Shad and NL were all EASILY able to kill BF at level 12o or earlier. Level one-hundred and twenty. Not to mention 2 of those classes can tank him way easier than bm, AND they all do way more lines/dmg than BM against bf. Think about this.
2. Puppet does not work in party play. When multiple players are attacking a mob, the mob's aggro is no longer guaranteed to trigger on to puppet. This has been the case since the beginning of time. Puppet is most often used for solo play, about 95% of the time.
3. Yea BM can summon farm, sure. This is not really relevant in their dps though, so not sure why it's brought up if I was specifically saying to leave the summon alone. It's like saying Shad's shouldn't receive any dps buffs because they can sell BF leech starting at lv 78 -- over 40 lvls sooner than a BM ever gets phoenix.
4. This is a straight up lie. I co-main a bucc and a bowmaster. My bucc mobs infinitely better than my bm with less funding. You say this like knockback isn't even a factor. Who are we kidding with this one? lolxd

BM needs a damage buff, period. Whether the devs choose to give it one or not is another story. I out damage it way too easily on other classes with only my att gears xferred and inferior stats every where else.