In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

im totally agree with reduced knockback while on ship! i love it!

 

Some White Knight / Paladin Suggestions:

1. Rebalance Blast power scaling so that it is immediately better than Power Strike
So, not really an expert on this game by any stretch of the imagination, but why on Earth does blast start out at 200% damage when Power Strike (1st job skill) finishes off at 260% ?

My suggestion which I am sure someone has made before, is to take some of the total power scaling for Blast and make it do 280% damage immediately from level 1, and then make it scale at 10% per level until it falls back in line to where it was where it will continue scaling at 20%.

It just seems like incredibly poor game design to have a first job skill outclass something even temporarily that you get around 100 levels later.

2. Rework Charged blow

As it stands, and I know there have been a lot of changes to make WK suck to play less, but as it stands your main attack skills are unlocked at 1st job and you don't replace them until you complete some quests after completing the 4th job. Doesn't seem to make an ounce of sense to me and I understand that balance is a big concern here, but genuinely this has somewhat detracted from the experience of playing. I don't understand why it needs to be such a slog to get through the levels as a WK to get to Paladin, but that's how it currently is. It would be nice if charged blow at least allowed you to have infinite charges at level 30. If the power of this is an issue, perhaps remove some of the total power and shift it to 4th job, because as it stands it is 100% completely useless. Personally, I gave up and blew my entire bank of 500m to leech my way out of 3rd job.

I've read the thread where infinite charges were suggested and denied before but frankly this is something I have to make my voice known on, Charged blow is an awful skill, there is no reason why it has to be so terrible. The changes made to elements to help buff WK does a lot for damage but it doesn't do anything for interesting gameplay when most monsters that are ideal to level on don't even have elemental weaknesses to swap between. The most engaging this feature is in the Wyvern maps before skeles, red and blue wyverns have opposing elemental weaknesses so it's actually quite fun to flick between them and see what is the most appropriate skill to use in the moment. In the vast majority of training maps this is something you just flick on and forget about until it's time to rebuff.

 

The recent rope change that now accounts for speed is IMO one of the best QoL improvements ever added so thank you so much for that!

With the rope changes, the only class (that I can think of) that cannot fully take advantage of this change are Buccs because Super Transform doesn't allow mounting. This has already been suggested before (Allow mounting during Super Transform) and am hoping the change goes through as the difference in climbing speed between other classes is quite noticeable while mounted. In general, I feel this change will help the class feel less clunky and provide more mobility

Also you can't trade while Super Transformed which is a *slight* annoyance haha

 

strongly agree here. doing rg on bucc can be frustrating because you cant weave in your mount inbetween groups of mobs as well as making the bee chasing annoying since you have to put your trans on cd sometimes by manually canceling it.

on another note id also like bamboo rain in dojo to be available when youre transformed.

 

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Thiefs:

[-] Magic Throwing Knife v2 - Give us the ability to purchase/exchange for Joong's MTK

Why?: I always liked Joong's revised sprite for the MTK in comparison to the OG look for MTK. It'd be nice if both versions of the MTK were available and you could do an exchange to the MTK v2 (Joong) and vice versa.

[-] Dragon Kreda / Timeless Killic - Add +6 LUK (5~7 | 5~12 godly) stat to the Dagger

Why?: I feel like the Kreda Dagger is underwhelming against the Kanzir even though they sport different looks. I'd want to see them being on par with each other, though Kreda being harder to perfect versus the Kanzir. If the Timeless Weapons ever come out with Pink Bean, then I hope Staff adjusts the Killic vs the Pescas too.

Archers:

[-] Give Bowmasters / Marksman a craftable (Rechargable) Quiver from Neo Tokyo

Why?: Wanted to see Archers get more options for Quiver. I think Royal Quiver was a good idea but it sucks that it's the only one and expensive too... I think a weaker budget Quiver you can craft in Neo Tokyo would serve as a good alternative for the Royals Quiver and SE mains can recharge their Quivers in stores and don't have to keep running to Showa / Phantom Forest for arrows.


Warriors:

[-] Future Warrior Shields (~lv110+) get Attack Stat and Only have 7 Slots instead of 10 akin to Khanjar

Why?: I remember when Haplopelma petitioned for a long time to make Warrior Shields have 10 slots instead of 7. Staff had finally gave in and gave 1H Warriors a chance to have something better than a lv20 Maple Shield. While I'm still happy for this change, I think for the future any additional Warrior shields added into the game should have an attack stat and only have 7 slots, akin to a Khanjar.

I think 1H Warriors have to spend way too much to perfect both 1H & Shield to be on-par with 2H (Stonetooth)... I think lowering the slots will make 1H cheaper overall for high end Warriors.

 

Hello GM’s fairly new paladin here joined this server in August. I did some research before playing this class as it has been mentioned that the CR buff was needed during bosses so was in hopes of being included more for bossing runs. However I have noticed recently that as more mules are being made being a pally main there is a less of a desire for this class to join parties.

For example, BM/MM’s and NL’s have the ability to make the 1 damage buff not appear during Krex boss runs. I don’t even bother asking most NL’s to party as they want other ranged classes as to not trigger the effect.

Another example is all NL and shadower HT runs as with only 1 SE and CR mule needed to complete the run faster than most parties.

My suggestion is to make CR an even less timer and range to make the class much more responsive and dynamic during boss runs, and a class that is actually needed. That or make boss’s 1 dmg buff last even longer than before as most parties hit crazy damage now with the new golden apples/gizers given through rose garden and events…

Main reason for less timer and range: would actually make parties PREFER a pally main in every run as to not easy mode alt tab and hit CR buff for the party. Pally would have to keep rebuffing and keep an eye party members are within range and also the parties responsibility to make sure they are in range to receive this strong buff. And if a CR mule is being used than it would make it actually harder for the person to just easily Macro -> hit cr buff -> get back to dps within seconds.

 

I've mentioned it with some other skills before, but CR requiring, or some combination of:

-Accuracy
-dex level/minimum
-str level/minimum
-lvl requirment (must be same level as mob/boss to cr 100%), or level range (such as 10 levels below the mob/boss to hit 100%)
-costing a magic crystal
-costing a charge
-costing hp+mp
-cr has further reach with 2HBW? gives them something lol?

This will wreck a lot of current cr mules, but, it's more party friendly. but if you still want to play sweaty you can, you just need to level your paladin more

Some of these same requirements should apply to threaten, as well as some other easy to spam skills

 

These don't make sense with Total Crash being a party buff, but would be potentially reasonable if Total Crash were reworked to something closer to Marksman's Blind, where the character would actually have to hit the boss for a chance to apply the effect (which in this case would be the removal of Weapon Cancel). idk if that is within scope, but on paper it would work.

These would not help whatsoever and would simply reduce QoL for no reason.

If you mean costing an elemental charge, this would be the worst thing ever. You'd be crippling CR mains in an attempt to slightly hinder the effectiveness of CR mules. If you mean an entirely new charge mechanic, that is out of scope and doesn't even make thematic sense.

This achieves the exact opposite of what you set out to do. It buffs CR mules while providing absolutely no benefit to paladin mains.

 

Making Total Crash even worse to use will just cause Paladin mains, including myself, to stop playing the class altogether. We already lose damage output with its current Crash range by having to stop attacking to walk over to buff PT members. Why would we want to lose even more damage by having to buff PT members even more and forcing PT members to literally hug you just to complete a WC boss? Paladin mains want a bigger range so that we don't have to move as much (and therefore do more damage) but Staff has refused to buff the range until they roll a massive skill change update.

I'd certainly like to see Paladins being more popular in parties but there's not much can be done as far as gameplay goes unless the server was rebuilt.

 

solely being devil's advocate with these ideas for folks who want more active, actual paladin partying, instead of cr mules. i know these ideas don't really stand a consideration in the meta, but, if CR worked like it did against a monster and not the buff, or similar to blind as you said, then yes. but still, i know they're undesirable in the current meta, but intended to help more focused, attentive play. requiring more setup or a level closer to bosses just makes it less desirable as a mule character, and hopefully promotes attentive, mained play instead, while still letting folks mule them if they want. not my best work, sure lol, but just throwing ideas.

 

just uncap paladins and paladins will be great i promise you.

 

Suggestion for Marksman:
Drastically buff Arrow Eruption damage, but reduce it to 3-4 targets (from 6).

Why:
In fourth job, we mostly rely on Piercing Arrow for mobbing. But PA is kind of impractical in a lot of cases. The main limitation of the move is that it's only worth using against 4+ targets (because of the long charge-up and the way the damage is multiplied based on number of targets hit). That means there's a lot of cases where we are stuck using Strafe/Snipe on 2-3 targets instead and that's kinda sad if you think about it. If you consider that MM is the weakest single target attacker with Strafe/Snipe, that means we are also the weakest 2-3 target attacker as well. Even an NL would outperform us on 2-3 even by using Triple Throw. And they're supposed to be the worst mobber. We're supposed to be a "good" mobber. What the heck.

I like the charge-up mechanic and the damage multiplier aspect to PA and think it's a very unique move that should retain its identity and its skill requirement to use properly. But I also don't know how to make it better at 2-3 without making it broken on 5-6. So rather than try to fix this problem with Piercing Arrow itself, maybe we could instead just accept that PA has gaps, and look to another move to fill in those gaps. I think Arrow Eruption could be that move.

With an Arrow Eruption that is strong against a smaller number of targets, this means we can use Arrow Eruption against 2-3 targets, and Piercing Arrow against 4-6. It would add more nuance for different mobbing scenarios, similar to how Buccs need to pick their macro based on number of targets. It may even open the door for us to be able to hit multiple body parts in certain bosses the way other "real" melees do (though we still don't have stance/iframes/shifter so maybe not).

The range of Arrow Eruption is already quite limited and you typically don't hit 5-6 targets with it anyways, so I think it makes sense for this move. It would also help further set us apart from BMs especially in 3rd job where we're very similar.

 

I'm trying to think of a situation or map where using eruption on 2-3 mobs is better than using piercing arrow for 3+, would you be able to suggest some maps or bosses where your suggestion would be better? Typically you can just dragon breath mobs into a wall, keep them frozen with frostprey, and pierce them to death. We already have an edge on rangers in 3rd job thanks to 125% strafe damage so buffing us even further is a little unfair without justification. Your example compared a mm 3rd job mob skill to a single target nl 4th job skill, I believe that same nl wouldn't be able to keep up without our se

 

Sure, I can provide some examples. If arrow eruption was strong against 2-3 mobs, we could use it for things like:
1. LHC Golems (usually <4 targets. PA is almost completely unusable most of the time which makes MM one of the worst classes here IMO)
2. LHC Bears (you commonly spend quite a bit of time attacking 3 targets when one dies before the others)
3. Wyverns in Horntail/Mavericks in Core Blaze (I already use for this, but it takes forever to kill them this way because it's so weak on 2-3 targets)
4. The 3 Bottom bosses in CWK (if top finishes first and needs to help. You can avoid stuns this way too by surfing on top of them)
5. Scarlion + Targa
6. Rose Garden Stage 2 (the platforms break them up to make PA harder to use here)
7. Zakum left side arms
8. Horntail left side 3 body parts
9. Mobs that stun/seal like NT mobs or Crimson Guardians (since PA charge-up gets cancelled by seal/stun)

I feel like it could open up a lot of new creative possibilities of how the move could be used and give us more tools to deal with different situations. Right now both moves function similarly: to hit peak dps, you want to ideally hit that juicy 6 targets with them. Less than 4 and they both suck and you have to use Strafe instead. So the two moves are *almost* redundant. My suggestion would instead have them complement each other.

My intent with this comparison was not to directly compare TT to Strafe. Obviously TT is a better move and should be, especially against a single target. The point I was trying to make was that we don't have any other good options against 2-3 targets either, so we're forced to rely on a weak move even more often, and thus be bad in more situations. So that's the thing I was trying to address. The other way around this is to make us not suck so much at single target. But that's pretty obvious and boring to suggest, and I wanted to come up with something more creative

 

1. It's golems, we only get invited here for our SE. LHC mobs should be affected by dragonsbreath/powerknockback which has been requested earlier in the thread.
2. Personally when I go to bears, I hang back far enough from the pack to see/tag mobs that the buccs/warriors can't see so they can rope them over to the group. Switching from PA to strafe when there are only two mobs is pretty normal, I imagine every class would be switching over to their single target attack/macro.
3. Wyverns in HT are typically handled by the bishop, or a well timed PA on dark wyverns if it's being muled because you can 1hitko instead of needing to use up to 5 eruptions. If we reduced targets hit from 6 to 3 that would be even worse. As for core, 3rd job hawk for emergency stuns and a well timed PA should be your priority. Getting close enough for eruption is asking for a yeet into a 27k damage hug.
4. Unless the party is 3top 2bottom attackers, these situations are very rare. Buffing a skill just for this isn't justifiable.
5. Strafe is better for the 50k knockback on 3rd body.
6. Dbreath, frostprey for freeze, you will always have 4+ mobs grouped for your PA.
7. The benefit over just using strafe here is minimal at best with a eruption damage buff.
8. You would need to stand next to head A for this to work and with wings up you'll keep getting knocked down to the ground since it knocks you to the right.
9. Tokyo park is somewhere you go for the questline and never return, plus the card effect gets rid of the stun anyway. Crimson guardians suck full stop, however this is one of the few places where i definitely opt for eruption over anything else because there's a spot on the map before courtyard you can stand and not get hit, you still get sealed though but that's just how it is.

I'd argue for still using PA on 3+mobs instead of 4 purely for the knockback effect/mob control, take shao for example. You can take on the mobs/shao using frostprey for perma freeze and PA with whoever it is you go with, unless you go with a stinky NL.

The utility is already there, I think you should explore different strategies. Make a Marksman post asking how do others deal with particular situations/bosses/mobs. Might teach something, might learn something

 

i'v noticed shadower is the only melee class that dont have any mob control like rush / magnet / snatch etc
im having really hard time to farm mobs at rose guarden i suggest making boomerang step also gather the mobs or even pull them closer to you
and as a return decrease its range. also shad cant hit while jump thats so weird make him be able to attack while jump

 

I want to discuss Mana Reflection a.k.a the magician skill maxed since there's nothing else to max.

Currently it has a 60% chance to activate and do 2x the damage back when a magic-coded attack is received.

This skill is bad because:
1) It relies on getting hit when many endgame boss magic attacks have unpleasant secondary effects. Particularly lame when said effect is dispel and it needs another cast.
2) The damage is negligible.
3) It only reflects some skills (this is fair as much as I want to slap Anego, so no suggestions here).

Therefore I suggest making it more of a defensive skill than the half-baked offensive skill it currently is.

1) When it activates, prevent Dispel and knockback.
2) Increase activation chance. It shouldn't be as high as Stance's since we don't need to hug bosses. I suggest 80%.
3) Increase damage. Obviously it can't be too crazy (Newtie mana reflection farm?) but the strongest thing that can be reflected is some 1/1s by a 30k HP mage and it's not like bosses are spamming high damage magic constantly, so I do not think Mana Reflection Mule will become a thing even at 500% (5x) or even the late pre-BB 1000% (10x).

Dispel and knockback will not impinge upon Holy Shield's coverage. Guarding against Dispel is my idea of how to make the skill relevant. Sure certain people here vehemently state mages do not need washing but one wonders why many veterans are remaking 20k-30k HP Bishops, going through the nonsense of Gen30 and MW20 again after their first 10k Bishop. Anti-knockback helps with keeping the summon in range.

Arch Mages should have a stronger version since they do not have any party support skills. Maybe +5% chance and 1000% damage for Arch Mages and 500% for Bishops.
I guess some may argue anti-knockback helps with Bishop muling, if so make it apply to only the Arch Mage version.

 

Archer puppets 2mins please thanks

 

I will say i like the takes this guy has. Make him the balance guy.
The stuff he mentions about warriors is especially nice, for all of them to have a purpose.
And yes Bishops dispel should only work on party, since otherwise it negates the need of all the other warriors.
And yes Bishops are already completly OP as it is, they are good at every role of the game.
They are kings of grinding//Leeching.
They are the most wanted class for bossing.
They have by far the easyest time lvling.
They are the cheapest class to lvl, they dont even use pots at some points..

And i wanna say at the end: Yes it would be nice to see 2h BWs finally be viable.
They dont have to be on par with swords, but atleast make them viable.

 

Thank you i appreciate that