I did, none of your suggestions cater to helping heroes whatsoever, heroes are literally at the bottom of the barrel like how shads were before their major ridiculous buff. Anything regarding to 3rd job skills is completely irrelevant especially when leeching culture exists and there's a linear way to get to 120 in this version of maple (pqs/grind places like himes, rinse repeat gameplay). Coma/Panic are useless skills, you lose dps using these skills and having to recharge your orbs to regain maximum dps output. Like I said once and I'll say it again your post contributes nothing to helping out heroes. Meme class is a joke f3.
Like I said once, and I will say it again - you might want to read the post. "Anything regarding to 3rd job skills is completely irrelevant especially when leeching culture exists" - People who are new to the server PQ and are forced to find alternative ways other then leech and warriors are already an attractive avenue for newcomers as they gain access to most content without washing HP. I guess suggesting anything that makes the leveling experience for non-leechers better is clearing not catering to Hero. Huh "Coma/Panic are useless skills, you lose dps using these skills and having to recharge your orbs to regain maximum dps output" - Read the post. Reducing orb use allows you to weave in Panic in between Brandish resulting in more damage. Huh The Shout change and Advanced Combo attack changes I suggested were more for fun/quality of life. Even just being able to weave in Panic and Coma at all would make Hero more interactive and more fun. Managing the Orbs while expending them at the same time creates an entirely unique type of attacking class whereas everything else is basically hold down one macro or button. Only buffing Brandish or the raw maximum output just to match the other classes in terms of damage sounds good in theory, but wouldn't it be better if Hero could both do that and be more interactive/flexible/and have it's own distinct playstyle? Agree to disagree if you can't see any merit in what I suggested.
Hello staff and community, not sure if additional contributions to this thread are still being considered, but I wanted to add some additional ideas for heroes' damage/skill progression via improvements to enrage. After playing a hero twice (yes twice lol) to end-game, one thing I've noticed is how the class seems to just cap out in terms of 'core skills to max' at about lv. 150. Where once you have 1 point in rush, have maxed Brandish, Advanced Combo Attack, and Power Stance, you're pretty much good to go... (+ a few more levels if you'd like to include MW) and thereafter, all of the other skills are mostly a "it's up to you / do whatever you want" kind of progression. With this in mind, I'd love to see ways that enrage can become a core part of the set of skills for Heroes and their damage/skill progression, and I'd like to put forward the following ideas for consideration for improving enrage: Increase in total damage % during the enraged state (And I'd much rather see a line like this on enrage rather than just slapping on additional %-damage on Brandish or ACA...), and/or; A passive % chance (20-30%?) to recover 3-orbs when attacking (if enrage is going to be part of the core playstyle, it'd be great to be able to recharge orbs even faster as using enrage requires 1 set of full orbs to cast, and another set to then get up to full DPS), and/or; A passive increase in weapon attack similar to Marksman's Boost's or Bow Expert's +10 watt as another potential idea From the status of this thread and recent staff blogs, it looks like ideas are already in discussion/development... but for what it's worth I'd love to see the above ideas for Enrage (esp. the first 2 bullets) be considered alongside the already suggested ideas to rework the skill... It'd be a great way to further buff Heroes while giving them more skill progression to look forward to later on in the game. Finally, a few other parting thoughts: What would the staff/community think if rage instead gave a +% damage buff to party members? i.e.,+5% total damage to party members for the duration of the buff instead of just adding +weapon attack? I could see this as a potentially great alternative if getting rage to stack on top of attack pots is too cumbersome/can't be achieved... I disagree with adding a mechanic to allow heroes to be able to focus on a single target/boss and doing more damage to a single target... for the following: 1) I don't think it'd be fair for a class to be good at both mobbing and single-target DPS, 2) it wouldn't be fair to other strong-mobbing classes like Drks and would invite new space for scope creep, where Drks might as well ask for a single-target focusing mechanic too, and then everyone would be a single-target DPS in-game... and 3) this mechanic isn't exactly a nostalgic/pre-bb playstyle for heroes (although this can be debated as we have introduced large changes/improvements to classes that altered their playstyle such as reducing Bucc's super transformation cd to 1-min allowing them to be in ST constantly...) Aaand that's about it! Thank you if you've read this far, and apologies if these ideas have been mentioned already... happy to read/hear thoughts on these ideas! Let's hope we can see some class balancing updates released in 2026!! - From another Hero enthusiast
Would it? Isn’t echo based on % of total weapon attack? This idea is for % damage like adding +5% damage on whatever damage skill is being casted
Oh, that's probably even harder than making it stack as it's an entirely new stat, but would at least be a bit more consistent.
For mages Some people might say that if mages' single targets get buff it will be too op because mages can do things like selling leech, mage farming. I don't agree with this. For mage farming, I don't think it's something many people are supposed to do. I have made many mages, and I regretted making it because I only play with 1 pc. There is not many contents I can do with my mages. For mage single target, I think is might be ok to buff the damage by like 50% for arch mages, and 20-30% for bishop, resulting on par dps with classes like bucc, shad for arch mages, making them needed to be in pt because of their dps. Too broken ? probably not, because arch mages will do dps that high only with elementally weak bosses, that's just some minority of bosses which is a trade off, (and should be) especially end game bosses like VL , Auf. etcs. Isn't good to have them shine in end game contents and some other bossing contents ? And for bishop, if the dps got buffed they will be able to do significant damage and that would encourage more active gameplay for them. For the skill like chain lightning, I heard sth. like it's not single target, it's hard to get fixed... I don't think it's something that's hard to be fixed, just doing some maths will work fine, just make sure 2-3 targets dps don't reach Hero,Dk and 4 targets dps don't reach Shad .... For skills like Fire Demon and Ice Demon, these skills are kinda a joke, so I think it'good to buff dps of them, this will be alternative for arch mages for bosses that are elementally strong, immune to their single target skills. But we should make sure this skill is inferior to their single target skill. For a skill like Big Bang, I think it's a good idea to buff this skill's damage too, its damage can even be on par with genesis,blizzard,meteror or even exceeds them, we can increase charging time of this skill to prevent it becoming too strong, and also buff a bit of its range too. This skill is a neutral elemental skill, so it can be alternative to mages against some mobs, bosses.
1) Buccs and shads are already broken and need to be tuned down, we shouldn't make mages match them 2) That buff wouldn't bring mages even close to bucc/shad DPS anyways lol. Elemental damage kind of going to be a pretty big issue with mage damage though, since all their main attacks are elemental. It's honestly a bad system and GMS removed it for very good reasons. CL damage fall-off actually probably helps naturally balance its multi target capabilities, which is neat. Big bang is disgustingly bad rn, buffing it to be useful would be kind of nice but also I personally dislike charge up skills so I'm not sure how I'd feel about it. Should probably just buff other skills instead I guess Anyways mages do need a buff/fixing (I posted a big theory thing in this thread about them earlier!), I hope we see some interesting changes when we get the balance patches.
Hello, Sylafia 1) It's only about DPS, even mages' dps match shad/bucc, they are still not as good in bossing bc of bossing utilitys of shad/bucc like SS, TL, SI, i-frame, etcs. Arch mages is elemental mages, making them beasts in elementally weak bosses is probably what they deserve. 2) Ya, the number is probably not right, I am imagining Arch mages to do like 90% single target dps of NL in their weak bosses.
Hello, procrastinya. 1) MM = 65%~70% of NL ? : From Krex DPS comparison 10:17 | NL by uglee and 13:46 | MM by JustJae assuming both have equal gears By comparing time, we get that MM = ~74.7% of NL This is when using 140atk pots which favor NL a lot, and MM didn't even use snipe here ( bc it would be useless at this point). So, MM will do more dps than that compared to NL with gizers, stoppers, appo. So, MM = > 74.7% of NL with gizers, stoppers, appo. Moreover, MM might should be buffed with Snipe a bit, so their single target DPS will be even more than that if Snipe got buffed. And, very importantly, even arch mages deal 90% single target DPS of NL, this only happens in some bosses that are weak to them. For bosses that are not weak to them ( but not immune ), Arch mages will deal just 60% of NL which is a lot less than MM since MM >74.7% of NL. Moreover, MM is a support class that can give SE and Blind while Arch mages would give nothing. 2) Mages' AOE >> MM ? : This is true for like 6-8+ targets. But, imo, I don't think that is that big of a thing especially in bossing ( I talked about this on a comment above ) But when it comes to 4-6 targets MM should be superior to them. And MM might still should get buffed on their AOE too. 3) Mages' gear is cheaper than MM ? : Not sure about this, but when pushing to the end, mages' gears will be very expensive too. Absurdly high CGS will be still more expensive, but that's very rare and very end game top tier players things.
There are several issues with your argument: You are using top-tier players as your reference point rather than systematic data. My estimates are based on the chart shown below. When you say that WA potions benefit NL more, are you referring to the absolute increase or the percentage increase? I do not believe the percentage increase in DPS for MM would differ significantly. As a result, most players would prefer NL, since under the same percentage increase, NL gains a larger absolute DPS increase—plus the additional 25% duration advantage. Even if the figure were 75%, your advise would still be equal to remove MM from viability. I mentioned AOE because one of MM’s few remaining advantages is AOE. If Mage have 90% of NL's single-target strength while also having access to 15-target AOE, that would be equal to remove MM, since Mage would outperform MM in both AOE and single-target scenarios. A Mage’s damage scaling is linear, whereas other attackers scale multiplicatively (main stat / secondary stat × total wa). Therefore, if Mage reaches 60%of NL in the middle-late game, it could be stronger than MM’s single-target DPS in the early game(14x~18x) with relatively cheaper gear. In summary: Due to the mage damage formula and the versatility of AOE, even if Mage's output were only 40% of NL, it would still be highly competitive and cost-efficient. For mages, pursuing perfect weapons has limited value—the marginal gains are smaller compared to mid-to-late game gear progression (3–5B per gear is sufficient; there is no need to invest 30B per item). Under your advise, in end-game bosses —such as in VL/HT— would be better than MM, while also requiring significantly lower investment cost.
I believe focusing on Mage's DPS only when discussing bossing ability is not good. Below are the issues I anticipate and the solutions I propose (some of which I’ve mentioned before): (1) Relatively Cheap Gear & Linear Damage Formula Mages benefit from relatively inexpensive gear due to their linear magic attack formula, making it easier to achieve competitive damage at lower investment levels. Updating some new end-game gear that requires Level 180+ and high LUK investment. Add powerful Magic Attack scrolls (e.g. 5% or 10% scrolls, +12~20 TMA base on environment balance) that are exclusive to the new gear( VL-belt like) and worth using WS on. This would create a meaningful late-game progression path and investment ceiling for Mages. (2) Mage AOE is Already Too Strong Mage AOE capability is already extremely powerful, which complicates balancing when also improving bossing performance. Updating Skill Books (40 / 50 / 60 / 70) for Mage's bossing. If a Mage wants to max on single-target dps while remain AOE , they must sacrifice other skills such as MW, Infinity, Summon, Reflection, & HW. Updating 2 of these useless attack skill with high cooldown (like HH/snipe) after Lv31 so that reaching maximum single-target DPS requires investing all three 4th job bossing skills to Level 70: Ice/fire Demon Big Bang Chain Lightning / Paralyze /Angel Ray This would force specialization and prevent Mages from simultaneously maximizing all aspects of their kit. (3) Other Ways Introduce new content or modify existing mechanics to increase the utility of Mage skills like Slow and Seal in boss fights. Instead of purely increasing raw DPS, this approach enhances Mage relevance through mechanical and strategic value.
Hi, procrastinya. I am not sure how you use this graph, but from this graph, But it cannot be compared straightforwardly in terms of DPS of MM and NL with around the same level of gears. 10k NL isn't equal to 10k MM at all. This graph isn't even sufficient to compare that. The percentage increase, and it should be that because we compare the DPS proportionally. If we look at the NL line, it has higher slope than MM line, which indicates that WA potions have more effect on NL proportionally. It's 90% But just for some bosses. There are many types of AOE, 2-3 targets, 4-6 targets, 8+ targets. Mage isn't supposed to be better than MM's AOE in every category imo. I think I have said enough about this in earlier comment. Mage's damage scaling isn't linear. It's like tma^2+int, iirc. So it will has stronger-than-linear impact on damage. Investing like 30b on each item would be a consideration.
Mage scaling is quadratic, not linear. However, high base tma due to base int makes the quadratic scaling feel much more linear than it otherwise would, but the difference definitely is noticeable at higher funding
First, I want to clarify that I am not opposed to allowing Mage to participate in boss fights. What I oppose is a brute-force DPS increase approach. (In another comment & the the post(https://royals.ms/forum/threads/battle-mage-imagination.243964/), and I do not think my method is perfect—it is open for discussion.) Regarding slope: what we are looking at is the impact of range increases on DPS growth. I used that to support my idea: [under roughly similar investment, MM’s DPS is about 65–70% of NL’s.] Considering that players typically invest more into NL than MM, Even I agree under equal investment it might be 75% or even 80%, that would not affect my main argument: Your previous suggestion (Mage = 90% of NL) would effectively delete MM. Next, the claim that “this chart proves WA potions benefit NL proportionally more than MM” is problematic. To determine the % increase, we can just calculate with total WA. Comparing a 35B weapon + 45 SCG +VL-potion or Apple: While most mid-tern to final bossing run are with Apple (e.g. HT/Auf/cwk/VL), I use apple as baseline Apple provides about 5% more proportional benefit to NL than MM (5% is the baseline), while VL-potion is about 6%, the gap (5% up to 6%) is not as dramatic as suggested. the “linear scaling” discussion and the relationship between WA and TMA: I apologize for loosely referring to it as linear. After searching & AI help, The origin of that claim likely relates to how large the required TMA difference must be before non-linearity becomes statistically meaningful. After AI calculation: At Lv180, it takes approximately 200+ TMA difference to produce a statistically meaningful (~5%) deviation from linear approximation. Roughly, 1 WA ≈ 3–4 TMA in practical scaling impact.( For the following paragraph) When considering enabling Mage to meaningfully enter boss fights, I believe end-game Mage gear should also be adjusted accordingly. this would include specific new weapon-only scroll update such as: 10% scroll = +15 TMA 60% scroll = +6 TMA Adjusted under an approximate balancing ratio of 1 WA = 2.5 TMA, and restricted exclusively to high-level/Luk weapons.