Thats not a bad move, but the mob scaling is a really important part of the skill and changing everything about it to be a regular spam skill just seems kinda boring.
You can keep it and Nerf the skill damage maybe? Or just keep it the same Without removing the charge it will not be a viable dps skill but just some niche skill, the charge wastes too much time and can be interrupted
Definitely agree in its current form. I targeted my loose suggestions at those issues specifically by allowing SI to decrease charge time and allowing the skill to be cast in the air to prevent interrupts. I wouldn't be upset about essentially making Piercing Arrow a better Battleship Torpedo, just takes away the unique aspects of the skill.
So far based on the numerous past threads I have seen, many players think the best way to help Marksman is to make them competitive against 1v1 attackers by buffing their 1v1 skills, like Snipe or Strafe. But there are so many great 1v1 options like Night Lord, BM, Paladin and Corsair in such a crowded field. Is going to be a never-ending battle for them, because by default archers are not supposed to reach the same damage tier as them. So a more refreshing take is focusing on their mobbing and multi-target aspect instead. At least in this manner, people who choose Marksman won't feel like a second rate bowmaster, both options of archers can fill their own niche.
I'd suggest to allow it to hit at close range too, this is a big problem in maps with many mobs like Neo Tokyo and greatly reduces the use of the skill
Its Its a battle that can end some day, if you look into pallys buff threads and or heros buff threads(if theres any) u will see that most of them are alrdy happy with their own niche or just want a few changed mechanics.If theres a general consensus of this or x job being actually underpowered ,then its a battle that can actually have a winner. Btw mms should compete either in 1vs1 with bms someway(like making it strpnger with SI and weaker withouth) or well theres a lot of pretty interesting ideas in this thread that isnt actually buff their single target dmg..but compare it with other jobs that deals single target dmg isnt acurate bcs archers compensate that with SE....actually mms are just bad in concept..bcs i dont think that any main mm actually struggle getting boss rund due they also have SE
I don't play marksman so this doesn't affect me personally, but the 4th job skill changes and the non-number changes kind of turned me off of bucc -- for example, the permanent super trans change made barrage dragon strike obsolete, mostly invalidated energy orb dragon strike by making dragon strike snatch the default mechanic for mob clearing, made it so you never see your character model while bossing, and gave 100% uptime to very long iframes in barrage demo which means that you don't even need to reposition or pay attention to your character for most of the boss. It also changed bucc from a hybrid single / multi target (as barrage ds encouraged you to hit multiple parts) to pure single target. Bucc was in a unique position where the super trans change specifically was to allow buccs to hit ht arms 100% of time (as barrage does not reach), but in general I prefer not to see mechanic changes for alleged numbers problems. Further, I feel like many class buff feedback requests are made with the intention of 'make it easier for x class to join runs'. However, I feel like the much bigger barriers making it difficult for (primarily new) players to join runs are range / funding disparities and lacks of social connections. Both of these seem quite fundamental to Maple (and in the case of range disparities is often a driving factor for people to continue grinding), so I don't think this problem (new players joining bosses) is solved so much through class buffs as through increased community opportunities (such as the creation of guilds oriented towards players new to bossing).
I kinda liked my Buccaneers skill progression o.o Started with Barrage + DS, then as ST got maxed Barrage + Demo for single target and now in my 180s I'm maxing Snatch for Snatch + DS mobbing or going hybrid with Barrage + DS depending on the situation. It keeps things fresh. I don't think they're OP or have it easy at all, Bucc/Pally/Shad are an example of good balancing as they all have niches and viable strengths/weaknesses. I could see something similar with MM, maxing MMB and SE to buff Strafe, than scaling really fast while maxing Snipe and then as single target damage falls off, maxing Piercing Arrow and settling into a multi target focused role. Your points about social aspects are very true as well, but even so, everybody wants to feel useful in a run and fill a role. Right now, MM are strictly worse BM and they need an identity outside that.
My input on the dragon's breath and pierce discussion, and the social or cultural niche of mm: The dragon's breath suggestion does nothing for mm, and aids BM too. I would only be on board for a slight reduction of min. distance, or I think db should improve mortal blows numbers when it procs on db in the case it can't cast and MB procs. Pierce needs to be able to release in air, needs to fire even if you get hit, and should have the min distance lowered or the MB damage goes up as well. Also I strongly disagre about moving to improve MM mobbing. It's out of touch and does nothing to the class. They have excellent crowd control and mobbing. Fp passively freezes all mobs, DB is ranged rush, and strafe/snipe combo blows through mobs, or pierce destroys them. Also blizzard if you don't use fp. As for the role mm plays socially or culturally as a class, it's sharp eyes, and fast single target elimination (like nls) and large, but calculated mob elimination with pierce. This doesn't really come through, though And that's why one of the reasons I've said many times over the forums is that they should have almost no att% or damage increases on hardly any skills, and allow them to have blind work on bosses in one of two capacities 1. At max level, blind gains the benefit to afflict boss type monsters at 1/3 the rate. So it would reduce boss monster accuracy 10% for the party (or even lower it to 5%) 2. Or, the same max lvl requirement, blind only reduces against the user. This avoid increases dpm without raising attack The miss chance to a party gives mm value inside of just being se and outclassed by BM damage. If this sounds op consider when you would max blind in a build. It's totally reasonable and mm get a great benefit for adding into this "useless" skill earlier than normal (If anyone is worried about all mules becoming se/blind mules, blind has to be recast by attacking, has 20% chance to proc, and wears off after 5 seconds at lvl 10, which is 1/3 max) And/or Give snipe an active autotarget effect: Since only bosses can be hit by multiple snipes, give snipe a 7 second or something autotarget effect so all attacks are focused on the boss or mob that didn't die. This would help dpm without any damage increase Again check out my mm threads for more like this. I think mm can be improved holistically instead of just given more lines or more damage [Rollback the snipe nerf]
So, even one point in snipe will always be a better investment than mmb until both are maxed. The 200k even every 30 seconds is just better. So yes, what you're describing is just what actually happens, not an alternative build. I personally find pierce too much of a hassle to use and I'm maxing frostprey for passive boss damage, but pierce is super strong, even at lvl one, but using it is a pain. But I just don't think you or the poster sinner that you quoted understand how helping mm mob better does absolutely nothing for them as a class. They already mob very well, and have lots of ways to control large mobs and dispatch them. It's the wrong angle to approach them. It's something they do well independently of their bossing ability. Even frostprey just being neutralprey and stunning instead of freezing would be a huge boost because of weakness issues. Also making birds toggle on/off would be nice The "multi target role" thing makes no sense. They have an insane single target, and insane multi target skill, but their multi target skill is not used to boss anywhere. It's good on flat maps on mobs you can control, not bosses. Moving mm into more of a mobbing class weakens their existing strengths and does nothing for them I have no problem with mm being behind BM, as long as they have some inner utility that supports them, and really, they sort of don't. Give them more avoid with blind or mmb, neutral summon, snipe autotargets, tankier puppet (I could easily live without thrust if you make puppet a 40 level skill that has some 4th job relevance) And SI improving pierce just makes mm need buccs more than they already do, and that's a nerf, not a class improvement
I feel like that depends on gear? At some point Snipe becomes completely obsolete, so if you were rocking 40+ att gear and 130+ Xbow, wouldn't MMB be better than Snipe's flat DPS boost? For an unfunded MM Snipe seems like a better choice. I agree that PA is clunky af to use and barely serves a purpose, despite being so powerful. None of my feedback was aimed at helping MM mob, they already have great mobbing and helping them grind better does nothing for them, yes. I'm speaking strictly from a bossing and identity standpoint. I disagree. MM have been bottom tier single target DPS since the server's inception, and while the balance changes certainly helped, its clear that they are still not up to par. Its hard to adjust their single target DPS with Snipe being flat damage on a timer, as well as the fact that the single target attacker role is crowded already. A lot of suggestions mention only their single target ability when they're carrying a multi target nuke in their pocket this whole time. The problem, as you've acknowledged, is that PA is unwieldy to use due to its mechanics. If this were tweaked to be a viable skill, it would allow MM to fill a new niche and truly have a useful role to fill that isn't done strictly better by BMs. Piercing Arrow already breaks damage cap, fixing what imo is the #1 problem with MM in that they do not scale to endgame. It also scales with number of mobs hit, making positioning more important and creating a completely new play style while still retaining the flavor of the class. They don't really have any relevant strengths at all right now. Buffing their already poor single target damage to be equal to BM just creates another single target ranged focused class that plays like a slightly different BM. I'm not against giving them more utility, but that can just encourage muling if its party utility and it still leaves MM at the very bottom of single target damage and damage in general for a class that is designed to be a single target attacker. I don't think giving them 10% avoid and a non-ice element summon is going to remedy that. If we look at the Paladin rebalance for instance, another class that was at the bottom, they were given both utility and increased damage, and given a single target role to differentiate them from the other 2 warriors. A buff improving an attack > a buff not improving an attack I'd say. There are plenty of different ways to go about it, but it would be strictly better than its current form. Classes needing other classes' buffs is integral to the game. I figured since MM already want SI, allowing it to buff PA as well would be gravy.
Can someone give me the mms dmg formula pls? Ive aleays thinking that they have the least dmg of all jobs,but some ppl told me that they actually do more mmg than warriors...i would like to compare bcs like 8 said b4 nessis 2nd krex eye thread is i good start point but is a little unaccurate...
The 4th job skill patch occurred on Feb 18th, 2019. The notes are available here: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/4th-job-skill-changes.135025/. These graphs are pulled from that thread, with bars drawn at MM's listed 140 and 200 dps values to allow for comparison to other classes. Prior to Feb 19 patch: Spoiler Post Feb 19 patch: Spoiler
Thanks , but eithouth wsnting to ofend whoever dis this graphics....the values aee really unnacurate in practice What im trying to get is something like: Drk dmg=crusher Crusher is. 5*str(0.93x blabla/dex) weponatt+att gear* blabla...that one...do u k ow where i can get it? After i do that math i can calcule cow ofter their atacks get interrumpted...idk what att gears theyre usong in those grapics..and anh calculate with less of 45 att geats is kind of a waste of time...
The 4th job skill change post goes a bit into their rationale for the graphs, but you should ask @Tim if you have specific questions, as I believe he made it. Most skills are just % damage (along with SE giving a chance to add +140% per line), so you can use ayumilove's formulas to find damage range here: https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-formula-compilation/ Note that most jobs' single target dps are closer than people think. For example, on apple with se si, heros and drks are within 3% of each other. @Geyforlife made a dps calculator pre 4th job skill patch and ranked the classes, which you can see here: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/theoretical-dps-chart-ranking.124709/. You can view his formulas in the google sheet in this thread: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/damage-calculator-all-classes.123479/.
@juggernaut let me just be more clear, because i don't like doing mulit quotes because i feel like i dump too much into this thread as it is. about mmb > se > snipe, like you were talking about in your post i quoted, i meant, that is the usual skill progression (then MW then pierce). my comment was, 'that's the normal build', but imo snipe first is much more beneificial, and that was my input there. i know that snipe loses relevance later on. i've made lots of suggestions here and in other threads to address it. tweaking pierce to give mm identity is plainly bad imo. it's too strong as is, lowering/removing the charge time is a very bad call for a handful of reasons, i'll get to, but giving mm a new "playstyle" with a lower/no charge pierce does nothing for them in bosses, like i've said. no boss benefits from pierce over strafe/snipe, even if the was no charge time and it was lvl 30. this is a bad move. and the repositioning, calculating is what is difficult to use about it. if it could be fired in the air, or when hit, it would be amazing as is and need nothing else changed. also read my thread for more suggestions my suggestions are very mindful to not be exploitable via mules, and the ones i've made in this thread, are just the same. blind wouldn't be a magic everyone gets avoid now buff, it has to be recast every 5 seconds, it has to be maintained, and even then it has to hit the 20% mark to proc for it to work in those 5 seconds. the alternative blind suggestion is more for independent survivability, and this would do nothing for mules because it would only between the user and boss when actively being cast, and again, comes only with maxing blind, which if you're a mule, comes at least at level 140 to be of any use also my suggestions could come at early 4th, or later, depending on how we can talk about them or implement them, discouraging muling and encouraging class identity an attack buff is what the server has been doing slowly over the years to mm. it's not helping them, they don't need it. i have an almost 170 MM, and i personally say, i'm totally fine with MM being behind BM if they have some internal support in their somewhat flat or dead end skills to round the class out better. more importantly, this thread is about snipe, which is mm hurricane, hero's brandish, and i think there are smarter instead of harder ways to improve it's utility and relevance w/o playing the damage game which is not giving mm any more relevance or identity or aid in bossing. royals just threw us a 5. watt buff because they think it helps scale in later levels. snipe hitting thru cancel was an excellent party skill if you don't have crash or it's on cooldown and gave mm in perfect conditions in 30 seconds (at Zak for example) up to 6 snipes during wc, or 1.2m damage. i think that was all the gap mm needed in identity and damage in most places, even if they fall behind bm. it was a unique party skill that could speed up a boss takedown and pick up where paladins and buccs aren't.
What if MMs got attack speed buff from 6 -> 5 and certain xbows have 4 speed (i.e. Pyrope xbow, Raven Eyes)?
