Hello everyone! The Introduction As we all know that with the crash change in Update 71.1, the multi target classes become somewhat of a problem in terms of being optimal in a HT run. The change in crash made players hit through weapon cancel at a 75% chance - arguably slowing down the head stage in HT. This meant that it is more optimal to be alternating to parts with no weapon cancel than to stick with a 75% chance of hitting through. This was also brought up (during Update 71) by many experienced players in https://royals.ms/forum/threads/new-crash-change-feedback.188147/ Multi target classes then becomes a problem as they take wings down, hit L1 and R1 quickly, leaving no space for the party to alternate, but forced to attack heads. The Premise Unlike the Shadower class that is flexible at single target and multi-target, Heroes and DrKs rely very much on Brandish and Crusher for bossing purposes and only achieves optimal DPS output when hitting 3 targets. As a result, DrKs and Heroes lack behind on being optimal during the head stage as they can only hit 1 target. I decided to test out an alternative to see if DrKs can somewhat be more efficient. Part I: Rough Test Stage 1: The Facts Choice of weapon Spear: Sky Ski Pole Arm: Purple Surfboard This would be the obvious choice of weapon considering its optimal efficiency. Sky Ski vs Falt pointed out in link below by Captain Calibre that if you're appling, a perf ski outperforms a perf falt. https://royals.ms/forum/threads/sky-ski-vs-dragon-faltizan.59061/#post-313459 Purple Surfboard, obviously the best for its fast attack speed. Attack speeds in reference to https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-attack-speed-reference/ Crusher Base power: 170% x 3 hits = 510% per target Att Speed : 930ms (Speed 4 with Spear Booster) Targets: Up to 3 Fury Base power: 250% per target Att Speed: 660ms (Speed 3 with PA Booster) Targets: Up to 6 and has more reach Stage 2: The Numbers I used Geyforlife's Damage calculator which calculates your theoretical DPS/DPM: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/damage-calculator-all-classes.123479/ *Post Part II Edit: So sorry, I forgot to mention one more assumption (Assumption 4) that is crucial to these numbers. Assumptions For these calculations there were a few assumptions made. Assumption 1: Pole Arm Att/STR = Spear Att/STR. Assumption 2: I am good at math. I know what I am doing. Assumption 3: Purple Surfboard for Pole Arm, Sky Ski for Spear. Assumption 4: Full buffs, including SE, SI, Echo and Apple. Someone please check Assumption 2 for me thanks ;w; Results Analysis Fury only starts to deal more damage than Crusher when it hits more than 5 or 6 targets. However, we see that Fury deals more damage for hitting 2 targets compared with crusher hitting 1 target. 2 Targets Fury does more DPM than single target Crusher which is interesting because Crusher does 510% on a single target, and Fury does 500% on two targets. Well this is because of the attack speed. While Crusher takes 930ms, Fury takes 660ms which is roughly ~29% faster. Without SI, 2 target Fury does 33% more DPM than 1 target Crusher. However, we see that the % Difference is smaller with SI because at that point, both weapons reaches its maximum speed 2 i.e 810ms for Crusher, 600ms for Fury (~26% faster). So when we look at Fury reaching more targets than Crusher, we can see that 1 Target Crusher vs 2 Target Fury : Fury wins 2 Target Crusher vs 3 Target Fury : Crusher wins 3 Target Crusher vs 4 Target Fury: Crusher wins 3 Target Crusher vs 5 Target Fury : Fury wins So what does this mean? Well, we know that Fury has a better reach than Crusher. If there were situations there we can Fury 2 targets instead of single target Crusher, we can definitely do about ~21% more output. For now, I can only think of 2 applications for this where Fury can reach better: Head A + B or Head C + B. Assumption 4: Perf Ski vs Perf Purple Surfboard So then I wondered, what happens if we compare a perf ski and a perf psb? Perf Ski Att: 139 Perf PSB : 144 With this we see that it changes a little without SI Without SI 1 Target Crusher vs 2 Target Fury : Fury wins 2 Target Crusher vs 3 Target Fury : Fury wins 3 Target Crusher vs 4 Target Fury: Crusher wins 3 Target Crusher vs 5 Target Fury : Fury wins Stage 3: The Real Test Obviously if it works in theory, it should work in practical.. right?? Well let's see. For this test I was muling my DrK as an echo/def mule for HT, so I did not have my gears on, I wasn't in the party, and I didn't want to take too much time. Props to wooa, Betoo, catsclaw, 2xne for letting me test this in the run and not flaming me. Weapon Sky Ski: 16 STR 125 ATT Purple Surfboard: 15 STR 125 ATT Both on boosters and beholder buff only There were some problems with this test which I will address below. I recommend playing it on a slower speed so you can slowly look at the changes. The % Difference is the damage difference between Fury and Crusher. The Problems I had about roughly 4 minutes of footage, but there were many interruptions from fake Stance and weapon cancel. So I took 20 seconds of the most uninterrupted footage to analyze. Sure, it looked promising from just a 20 second clip, but there were some details to be noted. 1. Head A crouched more times for Crusher than Fury. 2. Head A def up by 0:11 in Crusher than Fury. 3. I didn't def because it would mess up the number of continuous Crusher hits. Analysis Since I've only got 20 seconds of footage worth analyzing, we can only observe a few things. Fury can hit B when B crouches, but still can't hit A and misses 2 hits on A. I believe that there is a way to reach A + B from crusher's position to hit A when A crouches. However, when A crouches, Crusher misses 2 hits completely doing 0 damage. That's when Fury's damage catches up a lot more. The Conclusion Although Stage 3 has some problems, I think using fury on Head A+B or B+C is still more efficient than single targetting on Crusher. My calculations points to show that the difference would have been 33% in terms of damage in an ideal condition. However, the video ended in 20th second with 40% difference. That would give it a percentage error of 21% which is fairly high. If problems 1 and 2 were rectified I think it would have produced better results in Stage 3. It is also worth to keep in mind that a 125 wa PSB and a 125 wa Ski is a world of difference in pricing. If you have a PSB stronger than your Ski, you automatically are more efficient at using fury to hit two targets than crusher a single target. The First Revision As stated by nicky below, my position for Stage 3 is not the most efficient way to test as hitting Head B has a 100% hit rate. Another test to be done is as mentioned by Jooon below, whether PA Fury could possibly reach A+B+C on its 16 sec interval head bend by C. Part II: The Revised Tests PA Fury Heads A+B+C Attempt Unfortunately did not work even with my feet nearly off the platform. Would have been awesome if it could reach C. Stage 3.1: The Real Test Props to @wooa @nutleafcity @OdieShodie @PuffyMelon and Xinah for letting me take 15 minutes of their HT time to test this out. The Setup As opposed to the previous test where I kept Beholder on, I decided to keep it off due to its short duration of 80 sec and could potentially alter the damage output any time of the test. This time around, Crusher will be on Head B, while Fury remains in the same spot to hit A + B since it cannot reach C. Crusher and Fury both hits Wings two times every time it raises, but I will be ignoring wing since ideally DrK focus shouldn't be on Heads before Wings are down. It is worth noting that the switch of weapons took 35 seconds from the time I opened my inventory until the weapon was switched out, missing one opportunity on the 20th second. There were 2 30-second uninterrupted footages for Crusher, but in one footage, Head A did not raise at all. I decided to take the footage where A raised 2 times instead. The Footage The Problems I had about 15 minutes of footage this time, and I decided to go for the longest, and least interrupted. While Crusher footage had 2 perfect sessions, I had to take the footage of Fury with the knockback as that was the least interrupted by def and cancel. Other than that, I didn't think there were anymore problems with this test, most problems listed in the previous test were rectified in this test. Video Analysis The entire analyzed footage is almost 35 seconds long with Crusher making a last hit ending at 33:57, while Fury stopped at 33:41. Although the video ends with Fury having 1.93% more damage than Crusher, it is important to understand that for whenever Head A raised for Crusher, it instantly overperforms Fury and took a considerable amount of time for Fury to catch up with Crusher. In this case, Fury is NOT ultimately superior compared to Crusher just because of the 1.93%. Throughout both Fury and Crusher footages, there were almost equal amount of head A bends (even without A raising for Crusher), hence this test is better than the previous Stage 3. Another thing is that whenever Head A raises, Crusher lands 2 hits, whereas Fury still misses its hits whenever A bends. The knockback to Fury at the 9th second was unfortunate but I believe is the point of a real test hence I won't complain about that. There's too much going on in the video to slowly analyze what happened, so I decided to plot it all on graphs. The Graphs Graph Analysis In Graph 1 for Crusher there is an occasional bump in damage in which it outperforms Fury correlating to the damage change in Graph 2 due to the Head A rise. In around Frame 1000 Fury takes over Crusher in Graph 1 as it maintains its DPS in Graph 2. The same pattern occurs around Frame 1800. The knockback in the Fury test seemed to have caused a major dip in all three graphs starting from Frame 500, but given that there was also a Head A bend during the knockback, it probably did not affect to an extreme extent. Graph 2 shows that the change in Fury damage caused by the knockback + Head A bend only dipped a little more than other Head A bend occasions. However, the recovery time from the knockback was longer than the average Head A bend. In Graph 2, although the gradient line of Crusher is higher than Fury, it is important to note that it does NOT mean that Crusher dealt more damage in total. The gradient line height represents the average of the change only. Although Fury's average change is lower, Fury landed 49 hits while Crusher landed 37 hits. Although Graph 3 shows that Fury has the more positive % difference time, it does not mean that Fury was better than Crusher either as the % difference over time is a logarithmic scale. The 100% difference in the first few frames had a difference of 58k damage while the 1.93% difference in the last few frames was also around 49k damage. Alright. Let's talk linear equations. Creds to @nutleafcity for helping out with this Graph 1 Equations: Overall Damage Crusher equation: 0.62493x - 52723 Fury equation: 0.62295x - 35255 Graph 2 Equations: Change Damage Crusher equation: 0.002337x + 62812 Fury equation: 0.003038x + 45837 In Graph 1, the C value of Fury is more than Crusher, therefore Fury starts off dealing more damage than Crusher. The slopes are in fact not much of a difference between Crusher and Fury. If we round it down to lesser significant figures, we can say that Crusher slope: 0.625 Fury slope: 0.623 And since Crusher has a very slightly steeper slope than Fury, that means Crusher will outperform Fury at x which is around the 4300th frame (if it prolongs further) and deviate further. 4300 frames would be ~71 seconds or 1 minute 11 seconds. In Graph 2 however, the slope of Fury is steeper than Crusher, but I don't think the slope has much significance since it has a hard limit on the upper boundary. I believe the slope for Graph 2 would represent its volatility, showing that Crusher with the lower slope meant a more stable output than Fury in the longer run. Let's just do this for fun. Now, we know that Head A: 330,000,000 HP Head B: 490,000,000 HP By using the linear equations in Graph 1, we can extrapolate to find how long it would take for the respective skills to reach these figures. 330 mil damage Crusher would take roughly 257,000 frames which is ~4293 seconds = 71.55 minutes = 1 hour 11 minutes 33 seconds. Fury would take roughly 258,000 frames which is ~4307 seconds = 71.79 minutes = 1 hour 11 minutes 47 seconds. That would be 14 seconds difference in the span of almost an hour. 490 mil damage Crusher would take roughly 383,000 frames which is ~6375 seconds = 106.26 minutes = 1 hour 46 minutes 15 seconds. Fury would take roughly 384,000 frames which is ~6395 seconds = 106.59 minutes = 1 hour 46 minutes 35 seconds. That would be 20 second difference. However, it's worth to note that this is the total damage, which includes damage on A+B. 490 mil damage at this rate would not finish Head B by then as a partial of the damage goes to A. This is just a fun calculation to see the extent of difference between both skill damage outputs. How long until there's a 60 second of damage difference between Crusher and Fury? It would take Crusher 1.185 million frames to be ahead of Fury by 60 seconds. 1.185 million frames = ~19753 seconds = 329.21 minutes = 5 hours 29 minutes 13 seconds to make 60 second of difference with Fury. At this rate Crusher would reach about 1.5b damage, while Fury would be at 1.4952b damage. This means that Fury will take 60 seconds to arrive at 1.5bil damage. Then again, these numbers are based off a 35 second video analysis, so I doubt it would actually be accurate even if rounded off to the next hour. To summarize the maths, the difference between Fury and Crusher seems to be fairly equal in terms of performance from the standpoint of Crusher B vs Fury A+B. It would take almost an hour to make a noticeable difference between Crusher and Fury damage output. The Revised Conclusion As it stands, Crusher and Fury are both viable in terms of hitting A+B, keeping in mind that there were 2 opportunities given to swap weapons in the span of 35 seconds. Personally I think it's better to save the fuss of switching weapons and stick to using Crusher on B. The concern of Fury on A+B is that A would bend, but Crusher would have no concern as it has a 100% hit rate on Head B and an occasional higher DPS output on Head A rising. It might be possible that using Fury on C + B would give Fury a larger advantage over Crusher, but those situations would arrive only when R1 is triggered. In the end, Crusher on B would be the optimal gameplay for HT on DrKs. I would be really interested in knowing perfect ski vs perfect PSB outcome. As of this test, 125 wa ski = 125 wa PSB. The Second Revision While the Part I and II are DrK's performance without external factors such as apple and other buffs, @Relmy mentions below that an optimal DrK gameplay in HT is also affected by an optimal party which includes SE + SI. Relmy also mentions that the impact of SE would serve Crusher better from its +140% damage boost while SI might increase both Crusher and Fury performance equally. However, an apple would favor Fury better. Part III: SE + SI + Apple Maths So while I want to do a test, I can't do it in this given HT bug situation. Not to mention how exhausted I was from adding up numbers in Part II, I'm not quite sure I want to do the same again. Part II took a long time to produce because of several errors made from calculating, resulting in more than just a couple re-rendering of the whole video part. I apologize to those who expected for a video analysis. First I just kinda wanna look at some theoretical numbers, let's say ideally what if Fury would hit 2 targets vs Crusher hitting 1 target. Feel free to skip to Part II and Part III calculations, this is just some fun maths to look at. Nothing really important, just a base foundation of maths I did to calculate for the expected outcome with SE + SI + Apple. No Buffs In Part I, I did not use any apples nor did I have SI/SE buffs. Since my Ski and PSB have the same 125 wa, I want to find out what's the actual difference it should have made. The numbers in Stage 2 of Part 1 were wrong to be compared to Stage 3 as those numbers included Apple, SE and SI. With reference to Part I Stage 1, NOTE: I will simplify a lot of the maths here, this will not reflect the real damage output. Crusher (1 Target): 170% power * 3 hits = 510% power 510% power * 125 wa = 67,350 damage 67,350 damage / 0.93s = 72,419 DPS Fury (2 Target): 250% power * 2 hits = 500% power 500% power * 125 wa = 62,500 damage 62,500 damage / 0.66s = 94,697 DPS % Difference (w reference to Fury): Fury does 23.5% more than Crusher per second. With SI Only With reference to: https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-attack-speed-reference/ Attack Speeds Sky Ski: Normal (6) Purple Surfboard: Fast (5) Crusher (16-30 points) Faster (2): 810ms (-240ms) Faster (3): 870ms (-180ms) Fast (4): 930ms (-120ms) Fast (5): 990ms (-60ms) Normal (6): 1050ms Slow (7): 1140ms (+90ms) Slow (8): 1200ms (+150ms) Slower (9): 1260ms (+210ms) Fury Faster (2): 600ms (-210ms) Faster (3): 660ms (-150ms) Fast (4): 720ms (-90ms) Fast (5): 750ms (-60ms) Normal (6): 810ms Slow (7): 870ms (+60ms) Slow (8): 900ms (+90ms) Slower (9): 960ms (+150ms) Now, we know that SI increases attack speed by 2, and booster also increases attack speed by 2. This means that booster + SI would increase attack speed by 4. Since skis have Normal (6) attack speed, booster + SI would bring it up to 6-4= 2 speed. PSBs have Fast (5) attack speed, booster + SI would bring it up to 5-4= 1 speed. As the data shows, speed 2 is the highest speed. Therefore PSB would also reach speed 2 at most. Or would it? I decided to test it out to see if it was possible for SI to break speed 2 (and achieve speed 1) for PSBs. Let's say if Fury reaches speed 2 at 600ms, therefore we can say that Fury hits 16.67 times in 10 seconds. If theoretically Fury could attain speed 1, through arithmetic progression it is fair to assume that Fury will have 540ms. In 10 seconds, Fury will be able to hit 18.5 times, which is 2 times more than speed 2. We can count the number of hits Fury does in the GIF below (bottom screen). The top screen shows Fury hitting with booster only. The bottom screen shows Fury hitting with booster + SI. Credits to MoshikoDabus for giving me SI So fury does hit 16.5 times, so now we know that PSBs are indeed locked at speed 2 at 600ms. Skis would gain 1 more speed boost from SI than PSBs. Crusher at speed 2 would hit at 810ms (120ms quicker). Fury at speed 2 would hit at 600ms (60ms quicker). Crusher (1 Target): 170% power * 3 lines = 510% power 510% power * 125 wa = 67,350 damage 67,350 damage / 0.81s = 83,148 DPS % Difference SI vs w/o SI = 12.9% Fury (2 Target): 250% power * 2 lines = 500% power 500% power * 125 wa = 62,500 damage 62,500 damage / 0.60s = 104,167 DPS %Difference SI vs w/o SI = 9.09% % Difference (w reference to Fury): Fury does 20.18% more than Crusher per second. SI + Apple Apples provide a 100 wa increase, hence: Crusher (1 Target): 170% power * 3 lines = 510% power 510% power * 225 wa = 114,750 damage 114,750 damage / 0.81s = 141,667 DPS Fury (2 Target): 250% power * 2 lines = 500% power 500% power * 225 wa = 112,500 damage 112,500 damage / 0.60s = 187,500 DPS % Difference: Fury does 24.44% more than Crusher per second. SE + SI + Apple Now, this would be a bit more trickier to work out since it starts to play with "chance". SE provides a +15% crit chance and +140% fixed damage increase to Dark Knights. For the sake of simplifying the maths, I will assume both skills hit a total of 120 lines. With a 15% crit chance, 18 out of 120 lines are crit hits, 102 lines are non-crit. Crusher (1 Target): Non-Crit Damage 170% power * 102 lines (34 hits) = 17,340% power 17,340% power * 225 wa = 3,901,500 damage Crit Damage (170% power + 140% SE) * 18 lines (6 hits) = 5,580% power 5,580% power * 225 wa = 1,255,500 damage Total Damage 3,901,500 damage + 1,255,500 damage = 5,157,000 damage 5,157,000 damage / (40 hits * 0.81s) = 159,167 DPS % Difference (w reference to Crusher SI + Apple): SE increases Crusher damage by 11% Fury (2 Target): Non-Crit Damage 250% power * 102 lines (51 hits) = 25,500% power 25,500% power * 225 wa = 5,737,500 damage Crit Damage (250% power + 140% SE) * 18 lines (9 hits) = 7,020% power 7,020% power * 225 wa = 1,579,500 damage Total Damage 5,737,500 damage + 1,579,500 damage = 7,317,000 damage 7,317,000 damage / (51 hits * 0.60s) = 203,250 DPS % Difference (w reference to Fury SI + Apple): SE increases Fury damage by 7.75% % Difference: Fury does 21.69% more than Crusher per second. Part II Calculated Outcome Based on the footage in Part II, I will assume similar patterns in the DPS change, i.e 2 Head A Raises for Crusher, 4 Head A Bends for Fury. So from looking at the data I have based on the footage: Head A Raise: - 2 times raised in ~35 seconds - 100 frames per raise on average (1.67 seconds) - 200 frames raised in ~35 seconds - 200 frames is about 3.33 seconds Head A Bend: - 4 times bent in ~35 seconds - 130 frames per bent on average (2.17 seconds) - 520 frames bent in ~35 seconds - 520 frames is about 8.67 seconds Let's see if we were to do some maths based on Part II and the data above, how accurate can we correctly predict the outcome. As mentioned in the Video Analysis of Part II Crusher made a last hit at 33:57, and Fury stopped at 33:41 So that's roughly 2037 frames for Crusher, 2021 frames from Fury. Based on the Damage Change Graph, Crusher landed 37 hits, Fury landed 49 hits. Crusher: 2037 frames = 33950ms Fury: 2021 frames = 33680ms And since there were no buffs but Booster, Crusher speed: 930ms Fury speed: 660ms Crusher expected: 33950ms/930ms = 37 Crushers Fury expected: 33680ms/660ms = 51 Furies For everytime Head A raises for 100 frames (1670ms), 1670ms/930ms = 1.79 hits = 2 hits *NOTE: I'm not quite sure how this works as I hit 2, perhaps the way the hitbox moves during bend. Crusher lands 2 hits on Head A. Crusher lands a total of 4 hits on Head A in the span of ~35 seconds. For everytime Head A bends for 130 frames (2170ms), 2170ms/660ms = 3.29 = 3 hits Fury misses about 3 hits on Head A (4 hits on first bend in video Part II). Fury misses a total of 12 hits on Head A. For those 12 hits, they still land on Head B. Crusher (Head B): 170% power * 3 hits = 510% power 510% power * 125 wa = 67,350 damage 67,350 damage * 37 hits = 2,491,950 damage Crusher (Head A Raise) 170% power * 3 hits = 510% power 510% power * 125 wa = 67,350 damage 67,350 damage * 4 hits = 269,400 damage Crusher Total Damage 2,491,950 + 269,400 = 2,761,350 damage Fury (Head B): 250% power * 1 hit = 250% power 250% power * 125 wa = 31,250 damage 31,250 damage * 51 hits = 1,593,750 damage Fury (Head A + Bend) 51 hits - 12 hits = 39 hits 250% power * 1 hit = 250% power 250% power * 125 wa = 31,250 damage 31,250 damage * 39 hits = 1,218,750 damage Fury Total Damage 1,593,750 + 1,218,750 = 2,812,500 damage Expected % Difference (w reference to Fury): Fury should do 1.82% more damage than Crusher by ~35th second. Real Test % Difference (w reference to Fury): Fury did 1.93% more damage than Crusher So it is pretty close. 1.82% vs 1.93% means if we were to replicate this calculation for Part III, we can predict its outcome. Part III Calculated Outcome Facts Crusher speed: 810ms (speed 2) Fury speed: 600ms (speed 2) Weapons: 125wa + 100wa Apple = 225wa Head A Rise: 2 times, 100 frames (1670ms) raise Head A Bend: 4 times, 130 frames (2170ms) bent Time: Let's take an easy number, 30 seconds = 30000ms. Crusher expected: 30000/810ms = 37 Crushers Fury expected: 30000ms/600ms = 50 Furies For everytime Head A raises for 100 frames (1670ms), 1670ms/810ms = 2.06 hits about 2 hits. *NOTE: Again, not sure how. I'm sure with SI I hit it 3 times. So let's just go with 3 hits lmaoooo. Crusher lands 3 hits on Head A per raise. Crusher lands a total of 6 hits on Head A in the span of 30 seconds with 2 raises. Crusher does 37 hits on Head B, 6 hits on Head A which adds up to 43 hits total. For everytime Head A bends for 130 frames (2170ms), 2170ms/660ms = 3.61 = 4 hits Fury misses about 4 hits on Head A per bend. Fury misses a total of 16 hits on Head A in 30 seconds with 4 bends. For those 16 hits, they still land on Head B. Fury does 50 hits on Head B, 16 hits miss on Head A which adds up to 84 hits total. With SE, Crusher deals 17 crit lines on Head B out of 111 lines, 3 crit lines on Head A out of 18 lines, with 129 lines in total. Fury deals 8 crit lines on Head B out of 50 lines, 5 crit lines on Head A out of 34 lines, with 84 lines in total. Crusher (Head B Non-Crit): 170% power * (111-17) lines = 15,980% power 15,980% power * 225 wa = 3,595,500 damage Crusher (Head B Crit): (170% power + 140% SE) * 17 lines = 5,270% power 5,270% power * 225 wa = 1,185,750 damage Crusher (Head A Non-Crit): 170% power * (18-3) lines = 2,550% power 2,550% * 225 wa = 573,750 damage Crusher (Head A Crit): (170% power + 140% SE) * 3 lines = 930% power 930% power * 225 wa = 209,250 damage Total Crusher Non-Crit Damage 3,595,500 + 573,750 = 4,169,250 Non-Crit damage Total Crusher Crit Damage 1,185,750 + 209,250 = 1,395,000 Crit damage Total Crusher Damage 3,595,500 + 1,185,750 + 573,750 + 209,250 = 5,564,250 damage Fury (Head B Non-Crit): 250% power * (50-8) lines = 10,500% power 10,500% power * 225 wa = 2,362,500 damage Fury (Head B Crit): (250% power + 140% SE) * 8 lines = 3,120% power 3,120% power * 225 wa = 702,000 damage Fury (Head A Non-Crit): 250% power * (34-5) lines = 7,250% power 7,250% * 225 wa = 1,631,250 damage Fury (Head A Crit): (250% power + 140% SE) * 5 lines = 1,950% power 1,950% power * 225 wa = 438,750 damage Total Fury Non-Crit Damage 2,362,500 + 1,631,250 = 3,993,750 damage Total Fury Crit Damage 702,000 + 438,750 = 1,140,750 damage Total Fury Damage 2,362,500 + 702,000 + 1,631,250 + 438,750 = 5,134,500 damage % Difference: Crusher does 8.34% more than Fury. Part III Conclusion Given that there is SE + SI buff, Crusher gains a massive damage boost as mentioned by Relmy. Upon further inspection of the numbers, Fury loses out to Crusher with the SI buff alone as there is a huge damage boost on landing 3 hits onto Head A raises. SE buff applied to Crusher on it own beats Fury with higher Crit Damages. Perhaps some of my Head A raise and bend data were off, do let me know I will rework on the maths. As it stands, with a full party with an SE and SI buff, Crusher on Head B does significantly more damage than Fury on Head A + B. Seeing as Fury on Head B + C currently looks like the only way DrKs can be more efficient, it will be impractical to purchase a PSB just for the sake of this maneuvre. But do note that these calculations are performed under the assumption that HT's patterns replicate entirely with Part II's footage of 2 Head A raises and 4 Head A bends. This may not be the actual case. The Discussion If anyone would love to help out and contribute on this topic, feel free to share your thoughts, or perhaps help me do one video test on your own, share it down with me. I will be regularly updating this thread with my findings and new calculations that I come up with. Though, I fully acknowledge I may be missing some important factors that are of significance to these calculations. The End of Discussion In the end, Crusher is still the way to go in HT. By targeting Head B, there is a 100% hit rate and some occasional DPS boost from Head A's raise. Although Fury comes close when without SI and SE, in an ideal party composition it is optimal to always have SI and SE in the party. In such party compositions, the Crusher will heavily outweigh Fury. I want to thank everyone who has shared their thoughts with me in this thread and outside of this thread. It initially started out with a simple "what if there is a better way?". I underestimated a lot of factors such, especially the effects of SE, and Head A's raise. Through this experiment I have learnt a lot thanks to everyone who has shared in this post. Although this experiment did not cause an impact to the DrK meta, I hope some of you find this an interesting read; a type of detailed analysis to an alternative. I hope this data and calculations will come useful to those who were curious about the same question I did. Thank you for reading!
@Al3x @Relmy I wonder how will spear fury fair.. Pole Arm drk will be possible if PA multiplier is just tweaked alittle more.
I personally do not hit Head A completely given the number of times it bends down, resulting in crusher missing 2 hits. Instead, I hit Head B while the rest of my party is hitting Head A. On top of the 100% hit rate on Head B, Head A occasionally lifts up, resulting in crusher hitting both heads for 3 hits. Seeing that it is rather unrealistic to have both a perfect Sky Ski and a perfect Purple Snowboard, I did a comparison between (1) Spear Fury on Heads A & B, and (2) Spear Crusher on Head B, to see if the fury method could be viable. I could only yield a 20 seconds footage where both situations were identical, and the results showed that Spear Crusher on Head B deals 1.69x more DPS than Spear Fury on Heads A & B. Throughout the 20 seconds, Head A bent down for a total of 3 times (which may be excessive), resulting in fury only hitting a single head for 10 out of 31 hits. Even in an ideal scenario where Head A never bends down, Spear Crusher on Head B still does 1.40x more DPS than Spear Fury on Heads A & B. Theoretically, Pole Arm Fury on Heads A & B may yield a higher DPS than Spear Fury on Head B. However, in a realistic scenario where it is not viable to switch between weapons or even have two perfect weapons, and considering how Head A frequently bends down, I would stick to using crusher on Head B while the rest of my party hits Head A.
Excellent job! This is also an interesting test for Head B crusher vs Head A + B fury. I never really looked at it that way. It's been a month I haven't HT-ed on my DrK, but I think Head B + C could be a better yield for sure since C ducks and you miss out on a few hits. Looks like we'd have more testing to do. Everyone else can participate in this come on!
If player is l at C side, usually its C + wings + arms. I don’t really see the opportunity for drk to use fury on these parts. Meanwhile how far is the reach.. if you can hit B + C + wings + arms that might be something else. It might be possible that the player hit A + B + C when C bends up as well. 16s average / bend
That is true. Perhaps in a scenario where it's a party of Shad 4 parting + DrK and wings go down with R1, and Head C is still alive. Then perhaps maybe a few minutes for DrKs to shine. But again, what @nicky said is true, switching weapons is a hassle, and might be the only problem here. Perhaps smokescreen would help.. Then Shad + DrK best HT combo ???
Honestly, its quite hard to get it working. As i shared above it might be possible for drk to hit 3 heads at once, meaning to say Start of ht : Legs + wings + arm + Head A After legs : Wings + arm + Head A After tail : Wings + arm + head A After wings : Head A + B + C. After A swap weapon : focus B After B : focus Arm meanwhile all NL hit C. This might be possible. Since killing wing first improves all range dps. - i don’t own a drk so i might be wrong about how many targets it can hit Si mule + CR mule + SE mule + Drk + NL + NL Bishop off party since everyone is 200 going for tt30 runs anyway xD
Interesting. So in my 4 minutes of footage I did try on reachable areas that Fury can reach too. I did try on 4 parting Wings + B + C + Arm, but could not reach B. I've had @Katsurexx tried hitting Wings + arm + Head A, but only hits A on it's occasional bend. This though... Head A + B + C Hmm.. I'd think it wouldn't reach but, I haven't actually tried to reach all 3. I assume on the platform where DrKs hit B, and swinging it to C yeah ?
Some of the heads will be on cancel though so you'd only hit 2 Also it's really annoying to switch weapons mid run cause of the low avoid warriors have, and it will waste a lot of time
Updated a whole gigantic finding under Revision. I tried to put everything under one spoiler but it broke like a thousand times. Took me only 3.5 hours to get the formatting right and gave up on a giant spoiler. EDIT: Attempted again following day. Thread looks much more neat now.
Think outside the box is something Ill always recognize as something remarkable. Nevertheless, i have to be honest with the conclusions. Your current experiment positions are way more accurate than how you started, and now you have to add 2 factors, one of them is HUGE. Effect of SI and more important SE. Since what youre looking for is "Optimal gameplay for Drks in HT", youre most likely never running witouth SE, wich is way more impactfull in terms of dmg to crusher than fury. SI have the same impact for both skills, but when youre on SE, Si turns out to be more impactull aswel on crusher+SE than on Fury+SE.... Anyway the time youre taking to do this tests is something to recognize, tyvm. EDIT.- Ive found by experience that DRK+Shad+Bucc is somehow an INSANE combo for HT, havent give a deep tough, i have some theorys, but for experience, is easier, more comfortable, more chill, and even faster that the ones i haved with just nls+SE
Jin is a true treasure. Also, I second this as a shad. HT run with DRK + Shad + Bucc is amazing from the ones I remember, so I'm looking forward to any theories/data you come up with, if you do. (Sorry, don't mean to derail!)
Thank you very much for your kind words <3 I figured SI would have same impact, but now that you mention SE, that is interesting. I never thought about that until you said it. Given that Crusher hits 3 lines chances of getting a crit is higher than Fury. I am excited to try this out! Thank you for the feedback! Also what do you think about the effect on Apple to this? Would it make a significant difference? Given the increase in WA and the difference in speed, it sounds like the same scenario with Falt vs Skis? Not too sure, just thinking at the top of my head now.
I would say that apple affects more in favor to fury than crusher not too shure by how much, but it should be little, SE factor on the other hand is huge, not only bcs doing 3 lines gets you more chances to get a crit, also on how SE works. Lemme explain. SE adds a plain 140% dmg for drks.Wich means that, a crit crusher line is 170%+140%=310%(almost twice) line. Meanwhile Fury crit is 250+140=390% line(a bit above half dmg boost) so even if you haved the same chances of getting crits, you can imagine that SE heavily favors Crusher over fury. Hope to have time later on to show my math...
Please do show! I'm excited to see the math you worked on, but no pressure. Life gets in the way. So far all I have is the damage calculator which I checked, in fact does show you are right that SE provides a fix 140% dmg. I wonder if SE makes the damages highly unpredictable given that chance to crit is included, but that is what the real test is for.
Added a whole lot of maths under Part III. No test was done cuz HT hits 32k kekw Kinda lazy to do the whole video and adding up damages frame by frame anyway. Perhaps this is the end of my study? Unless there's more to be tested. As it stands under Part III, Crusher is still the long standing king of DPS for Dark Knights in HT Keep Crusher-ing on Head B! EDIT: I BROKE THE FORMATTING LOL EDIT2: Yea there's an invisible [/SPOILER] somewhere I can't find it.. My god it's getting worse.. w/e I'm not in a mood to meddle with it. EDIT3: God forbid. I'm so annoyed I removed all spoilers. EDIT4: I'll edit this to suit a better format without any spoilers some other time. This whole thing is a mess with spoilers..
