Is it deserved for NLs to be considered money pits?

Hello, wanted to know your opinion on this matter!


Is it really the case that NLs are so expensive?

I main NL and tbh never really felt it so overwhelmingly expensive.
Maybe because I made a mage as a first chara in this server and gearing it took a lot more money to 1hit even ulu2 than to gear my NL to start bossing, not to mention that once I started selling leech I didn't need to be super careful with money when playing NL.
This reputation stops a lot of players from making a NL as a first chara, and I'm not completely sure if that's a deserved reputation so I'd like to know more from you guys on the matter.


Doing some speculations here:

Stars
You can go with steelys, they are fairly cheap to recharge and to buy, and got 200 more stars per set. I mean, even using ilbis wouldn't have much of an impact on your wallet.
Cilbis cost around 180m on average (160m-200m), which could be a problem for some, but sticking to ilbis even up to 170+ won't be a problem. It's 1 attack. We are not minmaxing here.

Claws
A 76 attack RC would probably be around 600m-700m with average luk. That could be considered expensive for a new player. For starters you can aim for a 73-74 attack and see this cost fall around.. 200m-350m I think? I know prices on Tiff's Guide say much more but as of now RC prices in fm seem lower to me.

Class Equipments
Can spend 1b for both top and bottoms and you're good to go. Halve that amount and you're probably still decent to start out.

Equipment
Rings, Pendant, Helm, belt etc. is the same as the other classes. So NLs aren't more expensive for this kind of equipment.

Attack Gear
Instead of talking prices here I'll just say that just as you would buy a pair of FS or Atk gloves for a warrior you can do for a NL, so there's nothing that makes NLs more expensive here.

HP Wash
Here's what stops most NLs, but you would spend just as much as a BM, yet they don't have a reputation for being so expensive.



My best guess would be that NL damage is lower than other classes if you have shitty or none Attack Gear and Claw, but I'm not sure if that's the case.
And if spending just above 1b total (I know people that have earned more than 3b only doing the anniversary event content since it started on May 13th) can make you decent to start your 120+ journey, is it really deserved the money vacuum reputation that NLs have?
And even if, let's say, to gear up a NL to start out you require around 1.5b more money than you would a Paladin, wouldn't that be worthwhile since NL is the highest dmg bossing class? Especially considering they are high sought and can find party rather easily compared to a warrior or bucc, that may really struggle at the early stages of 4th job.


I'm genuinely curious as why NL are perceived like that so I'd love to hear more about it!

P.S.
If you're feeling like it, feel free to go into detail, me for one would much appreciate extensive explainations!

 

My impression is a poorly-funded NL does less damage than a poorly-funded anything else. But a well-funded NL does more damage than a well-funded anything else. Essentially, NL start off with lower damage per meso, but the diminishing returns kick in a lot slower since NL's damage is affected much more by weapon attack than other classes.

At least that's what I think is going on.

Spoiler: shitty graph

 

No lie through my washing and all the mesos wasted I’m thinking to myself (a shadower I would’ve probably been done, damnnnn this is expensive) xD especially having to farm my mesos the old fashioned way. But NL is a more longevity in terms of rewarding. I just hate the fact their alchemist skill got nerfed , found this out during my Zrun lol

 

I am basing this around the argument you made of ppl making NL's as their first charas, which I wouldn't recommend. (disclaimer that I haven't played NL on this particular server yet so take my reasoning with a grain of salt)
HP Wash
NL's are the second most expensive class to wash, only beaten by bowmen who sure also do have the reputation of being expensive to wash.
Attack Gear
NL's (in early game) require more funds put into gearing than other classes to deal the same kind of dps, I assume this would have something to do with their naturally lower total att (their low natural attack also makes them rely heavily on attack pots to perform well which also adds to their total expenses)
Stars
Since NL's have lower natural attack, going for the highest att stars makes a big difference, which comes with a cost both in acquiring the stars and when recharging them.
Mobbing
NL's are among the worst mobbing classes in the game, which means that the only reasonable venue for making profits as a NL is running endgame bosses, which in turn makes it very difficult to make meso at all if your first character would be a NL

 

Fixed your graph with an even shittier graph

Spoiler: nerf NL kek

 

pro tip: buy 1 set of bf n tell ppl ur range is the range with the bf n proceed to use nx star covers with subis/steely/ilbi. only crazy people will notice the difference

 

I know it's a meme but can I ask where exactly you believe the breakpoint is where NL > others? I put the diagram in my drawing as 30b based on this post (Re-considering Marksman vs Nightlord | MapleRoyals) but I've never actually leveled a NL properly. Is it actually 10b? Because 10b is actually quite achievable imo, if it's actually true then I might start leveling one lmaooo

 

Well-funded NL se dced = P U I !

 

Even if NL washing is free, NL would still be expensive.
It's about supply and demand. It's about competing with the rest of NL.
The only way to lower NL cost is to make other class DPS practically higher than NL.

 

BM is the most expensive class to play if you wanna main it.

Besides cost of washing, funding a NL at least gives you returns in terms of dps.

Funding a bm gets you no returns.
Eg: I spent aprox 50b on a perfect overall for my bowmaster but my max hit is still the same, 36k with concentrate buff.

We will ignore the argument on NL throwing stars recharge cost because NLs gain it back one way or another through alchemist.

If I spent 50b to upgrade anything on a NL im sure I get some increase in dps.

I would like to quote my buddies who constantly tell me "Your gears are good, your class is shit"

"This is a meme take on bms like myself dont take it seriously wrt ROI or funding requirement, play what you enjoy even if it means its the harder route"

 

That's not how DPM works. Your average DPM will of course increase if you have a perfect overall, you can't just look at minimums and maximums.

 

it was a meme at bms like myself actually

 

Ah yes I love schizoposting. Anyway, I was taking your post seriously so here's some links to DPS calculators.

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/damage-calculator-all-classes.123479/#post-869267

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/dps-charts.124709/

Maybe a more interesting conversation that's related to the original post would be the ROI from gearing an NL compared to gearing a BM.

 

budget 5b: BM > NL
budget 50b: NL > BM
budget 250b: NL >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BM

 

I thought it would be quite a clear cut scenario that gearing a NL would be more worthwhile compared to gearing a BM and that no debate was needed.

But your efforts in posting dps calculators would definitely help those who are new to the server. Win-Win.

 

I was curious about this so I used the calc, if anyone else is curious here ya go. I am pretty sure theres a mistake in here somewhere. Used 130wa bow and 80wa rc at 3.5b, 15 wa scg at 850m, 6wa bfc at 200, 4wa fs at 400m. I also know nothing about nl so idk gl tried to keep things simple.

bm

nl



my crop skills are shit
197k dps 11.8m dpm for bm
228k dps 13.69m dpm for nl

 

For NL, you have Dex and Luk on the helm mixed up, unless Luk scrolls for helm exist.

 

fixed ty. I think when people talk about NL's being expensive they mean about the 15 BF's they need or competing for gear in a NL heavy server. I don't think they're that expensive if you lower your standard a bit.

 

And also because they have to recharge the stars daily which adds up to at least 20m a day.

What they dont look at is the amount they saved from skills like Alchemist. (More than the cost of recharging)

One horntail run and they already save 1 apple and 10stoppers (approx) compared to another non-NL attacker in the party.

But we cant really blame them for this. Its only human nature to remember the things we hate.

 

I've always been very aware of alchemist and the increased duration of apples, maybe this is also contributed to my perception of NLs not being that expensive.

Btw you spend faaar less than 20m a day to rech stars! If you are a new player and are playing with Ilbis, being their rech cost of 200k per set you would need to rech 100 sets a day to spend 20m. I usually recharge around 20 sets a day if I'm playing A LOT.
Thank you for bringing that up, because many people believe that recharging stars is actually a heavy burden, when you probably save double or triple the amount you spend stars in +25% (goodbye +50%, you're still missed T.T) duration of Apples and Stoppers.