Not everyone, in fact I think only few people make it that far. I wouldn't say those are the average players. Also your earlier comment and someone else's about more stars. "Buy more stars" or "You can get 20 cilbi's for 3b". There is a valid point to this. I mean, you could just stack your inventory with hwabi's or ilbi's and be totally fine. About the other person who mentioned the cilbi's I feel a bit conflicted. On one hand, since I've been playing for months and gathered decent funds myself, I can see how "it's just 3b" for 20 cilbi's. On the other hand, I also remember how hard I struggled merching and selling hours and hours of leech just to spend 10b on washing alone. And on top of that hours and hours more to fund myself for some decent gear let alone "just 20 cilbies". I feel comfy with my gear and stars now, but I still think 3b is a lot of money. Especially to the average player. tldr: I think a lot of counter-arguments to buffing comes from the perspective of people who are already (massively) funded theirselves or take that as a general reference point. Perhaps elite players that have been playing for year(s). I've seen multiple posts now about people being against buffing NL in any way whatsoever, which is fine. Everyone has their opinions. However, I see some if not most of the arguments revolve around endgame NL's. People duo attacking/multi-clienting at Auf, having multiple 200's and/or having poured 100's of billions into their characters already. tldr: In my opinion, if we're gonna rate (class-related) changes based on the top 1% players, you could just invalidate every (class-related) proposal in this section of the forum.
My no joke response is literally buy more stars. I don't main NL, don't plan to ever main NL so I find it hard to justify spending 200m per cilbi for what costs a Sair 500k for a powerful projectile. Ilbi's are great bang for buck, the extra att for a 3b set of 15/16 cilbi just seems like sweat to me. I think ilbi's should be alot cheaper to recharge, I notice that I need to topup my hermit from time to time whereas eternal bullets cost next to nothing, and capsules are only 1 mesos per charge. I'm for reducing the cost, i'm not for removing the dispell when the solution is 'buy more stars'. Dispell is supposed to be an inconvenience, breaks up the hold one button and re-adjust when hit with an aoe.
This I believe is the core issue of NL. Its not the top 1% of players. At any point once you have maybe a 2b claw and 30wa gear, you will out dps every class with equal levels of funding so long as you have ONE party buff (SE). You see the Warriors that white NLs? They probably have a decent bit if funding on them and need SE/SI to probably do so. So it’s not a 1%er problem that NLs are op, it’s they just scale w gear the hardest. It outclasses every single class by a decent margin at equal levels of funding 3b is a lot to me and I have pretty good gear. Nobody will ever smega R>NL must have cillbis. If 3b in star is a too much to you, you should not be using end game tier stars. Just use 20 sets of hwabiis and upgrade them when you have the time/money.
It depends on your level of gear, once your reach a certain atk value every 1 atk more costs like 4-5b at least so spending 3b for 2 more atk is quite worthy
I agree with this. Meaning that people should really not be buying cillbis/bfs/mtks until your wa gear becomes that level. But most ppl want the stars first cause they look cool. Henceforth the amount of money it looks like it costs to buy 20 sets of cillbis. TLDR: You shouldn’t be buying cillbis till you break at least like 40wa. Its not worth the sink, keep upgrading gear first.
Yeah pretty much, also you don't need 15 and 10 sets are usually enough for an entire HT run. Bfc also isn't worth it unless you have very high atk, and even then I'm not sure if the 1 atk is worth the trouble of going to nlc every time
I think the belief that 'richer' players are against buffs to NLs stems from veteran players having played other classes, learning the mechanics/formulas between classes and realizing that NLs are superior. And naturally, these veteran players are the so called 'rich 1%'. The mapleroyals census in 2017, 2020 still show NLs to be a large majority of royals population and you can tell its true from regular party compositions too. From my biased point of view, corsairs rank number 1 while NLs are 2nd, and therefore, NLs are in a pretty good spot, they don't need more buffs. However, I would find your proposal more palatable if you argue on the basis that most players (including new players?) here are NLs and therefore, we need to enact these QOL buffs to NLs to improve welfare for the majority
I don't know why some posts suddenly revolve around funding, gear and damage output compared to other class. I'm well aware of this and at the point myself where cilbi or bfs are more efficient than CGS upgrades. Don't think I need any lecturing on this topic. Although I appreciate the tips, it wasn't the point of the thread. However I can see the underlying point some posters are trying to make against making Shadow stars undispellable. Maybe my arguments in the OP weren't the strongest ones. I still feel it'd be a rather small QoL improvement that doesn't really add to the "superiority" of the NL class.
So you're suggesting for a QoL buff for the best class in the game, to make the already best class in the game, better and more enjoyable to play? Any changes to streamline gameplay does add to their superiority. Unless there isn't massive overhaul to every weaker class there would be no reason to give NL, while it is a small suggestion, a buff. We talked about funding because you stated most of the counter arguments related to end-game nightlord based on the top 1% of the server and if we go by that logic we should just invalidate most feedback threads. So for fair POV we discussed how NL is op in early and mid game royals game state.
Be careful not to make the mistake of treating "strong" and "enjoyable" as the same thing. NLs are the most popular attacker class not necessarily because they are enjoyable, but because they are strong. Class balance is dictated not by how enjoyable classes are, but by how strong they are. Therefore, class balance has no place in a discussion about a change that makes a class more enjoyable without making them stronger. Let's look at it a different way: do you think it would be appropriate to "balance" a strong class by giving them QoL nerfs that make them less enjoyable to play? For example, if the next update increased the end lag when casting Holy Symbol, would you agree with it just because bishops are a strong class? If the next update made it so Pet MP pouch stopped working for only NLs, would you agree with that also?
Why is it considered best? Because of high single target DPS and Avoidability? "Best" is pretty subjective, but I get what you're tring to say. Maple obviously revolves around damage output for the overwhelming part of the community. Why shouldn't it be more enjoyable to play? Can't any class be more enjoyable to play? I mean we play this game to enjoy our time right? What are you basing this on? Your feelings? I can't help but say this just sounds salty as heck and hateful against the NL class. As I said, I haven't been around that long, but as far as I read in the skill change thread pretty much every class in some way or another got a buff. ACA undispellable, Transform undispellable, Increased damage and faster speed for Pirates, Damage buff for strife, decreased cooldown for snipe, Berserk damage increased + % to work increased and the list goes on for pretty much every class: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/comprehensive-list-of-changes-since-the-new-source.183746/. Even shad got majorly buffed. You know what NL got? 3 nerfs and a life changing 1 sec cooldown on shadow stars. Can you define early and mid game? I think we have different understandings on the two. Because in my experience NL really wasn't so OP in early game. Especially without SE I actually think it was pretty shit. I got outdamaged all the time by for example Buccaneers or Shads. Right now it's a different story, but it cost around 20bil (not including washing) to reach that point. Also if there's no SE, NL's are back to being pretty mediocre at best. Also I would be curious to see what happened if I put those same funds into a Bucc, Sair, BM, shad or whatever right now. Will it be that far off? Like will the Bucc do 20% less damage than the NL? And does it even matter? Shouldn't playing a class you enjoy be the first reason to do so?
playing an NL is enjoyable + strong. i enjoy not having to reposition in horntail all the time, i enjoy not getting dispelled by auf, i enjoy not having to move my character much, i enjoy not having to spend pots, and i sure also enjoy doing lots of damage which cuts my run times shorter so i dont have to spend as much time in a boss run, and getting more exp (when i wasn't 200) than all my party members!! i sure love having flash jump so i can get around faster and not even have to pay for a mount!
For you. It is enjoyable for you. I like it too, but that doesn't make it universally enjoyable for all people. And I don't really get what you're trying to say here? All classes have different characteristics that appeal to people. Also for a lot of the things you enjoy about a NL are plenty of substitutes or even more "superior" choices. Repositioning/moving in battle: Warrior with stance, Shadower, Buccaneer in Transform > NL Spend pots/avoid: Shadower, Buccaneer > NL Damage: Sair > NL || Shad/Bucc close 2nd + higher output without the need of SE More exp: Any class that can go LHC > NL Mobility: NL > All || Mages make a good substitute with teleport, Sairs can also move fast, all other classes can at least get 170% speed with a silver mane (but yes, costs money)
Sure, but why? And why not mention that then? I don't know what you were hinting at, but it didn't really add anything to the discussion in this thread. To me your post clearly has some ulterior motive other then giving input on why you enjoy the class as it is. Especially since you posted 1 page back that you don't feel anything for the shadow stars change (which is fine btw). For the same kind of reasons that you just described as the parts that you "enjoy". For what I see is that you just repeated your earlier post but in other words and without providing clear context. There's no need for that. Your message was received the first time. Also have you considered opening a Bucc or Shad? Or maybe you have one already?
i hav a bucc and Shad yes Also I was replying to baconfry saying that someone else should not mistake NL being popular because they’re enjoyable, and that they’re popular cuz they’re strong idk it ain’t that deep I’m just saying it’s enjoyable, did u read what I quoted LOL ulterior motive ?? ==
NL's are strong but yeah play what you want. I've been convinced by @Tommy I'll just agree to disagree and say if anything touch Shadow Partner not Stars to stay inline with how ACA/Trans functions.
If we are making shadow star undispellable, what about other buffs? What makes shadow star, in this case, stand out from other buffs?
