All right here it is: First I have no idea at this time why a Red Sock is worth 2b. When I mentioned RS as the key I wasn’t referring to how its price got to that point, but rather the price itself. I came back a few weeks ago after 6 years and here are some of the shocking things I found that are relevant: VL Boots which have a high potential of 8/6, much higher than even RS at 6/6 (If+5 on the 1st slot) RS is now at 2b compared to 800m when I left in 2019, meanwhile FS prices are actually pretty similar 3atk pgc’s are 25m compared to 240m when I left in 2019 (RIP Kerning Gach) A PAC is equivalent to PGC or BFC with 1 more wpn atk (eg. A 20atk PAC is the same price as a 21atk BFC) Until just the other day when I mentioned RS as the key I was under the impression that due to the significantly higher potential of VL boots which were not present in 2019 that the prices of high lvl shoes would be significantly lower compared to then as well, but what I found was the exact opposite: Prices (2020 before VL, Couldnt find 2019 prices) 20FS - 75b - https://royals.ms/forum/threads/20-fs.176851/ 23 BFC - 113b (20atk(43b) + 70b ) https://royals.ms/forum/threads/s-23-wa-bfc-looking-for-downgrade-22-21-bfc.177177/ Prices (Current): 20FS - 93b- (subtracted 5b from 98b because this is for a RS which is worth more than FS) https://royals.ms/forum/threads/s-20-att-sock.241121/#post-1488592 23 BFC - 130b - (subtracted 5b from 135b because this is for a PGC which is worth more than FS) https://royals.ms/forum/threads/s-23-att-pgc-css-able-s-b-110b.236112/ So despite the existence of the VL boots the prices of high atk shoes have gone up dramatically (opposite to my initial assumption). High atk capes have also gone up due to 10/5 BFC's despite 3 atk capes losing over 80% in value. Nonsense at first glance, but if you take into account the fact RS has gone up 2.5x in value and 10/5 BFC's going from 5.5b to now 7.8b since 2019 the pieces start coming together A RS has the potential to be 11/ 5 which if we were to apply the 3atk equivalence idea from the OP it would be equivalent to a 14/5 cape, which doesnt exist. The best 5 slot cape we have is a 10/5 BFC, a whopping 4 atk off from being equivalent to a 11/5 RS. While on the bottom end capes have higher potential, the RS has far higher potential (again with the 3atk modifier) on the higher end of the spectrum which explains why the higher in atk we go the value difference also grows. So the fact that prices for scrolled shoes and cape have gone up despite the new higher potential of VL boots and far lower price of base stat capes can only be sensibly explained by the fact that RS and 10/5 BFC's are massively more expensive compared to 2019. In other its WAY more expensive to scroll a high atk shoe and cape now than in was in 2019. TLDR What we can conclude from all of this is that: The scrolled prices are far more reliant on higher potential scrollable capes and shoes rather than the base common ones. Prices of high atk shoes have always directly correlated with RS prices and High atk capes with 10/5 BFC's Because of #1 & 2 we can answer the OP question with the following: Scrolled capes are more expensive than shoes because shoes have a higher potential (with the 3atk equivalence modifier mentioned in the OP) and are thus easier to scroll to a higher atk.
not really sure how you came up with this nebulous conclusion but its not accurate. The price of capes wont go down just because the price of shoes went down for whatever reason you listed. its going to be very hard to explain market forces and paradigm shifts on a 2d mushroom game but thats okay. Lets just say, prices of capes will stay constant because people will upgrade their shoes (as they are cheap like you said) until they get it to a wa where 1 wa upgrade is more expensive than a cape’s 1wa upgrade. Then they will upgrade their cape again. for comparison* You are saying people will spend their salaries on upgrading their cars because for some reason cars got cheap and as a result the prices of their houses go down as well. You’ll want both a house and car ideally and the prices of both do not affect each other. People just put off upgrading their houses temporarily due to market exigencies. btw you listed your price ref wrongly sir. 23 pgc was sold at 135b not 110b in that thread
Your right it was 135b, edited my post to adjust for that fact. Thanks for catching that. I know exactly what you are saying, but I cleary disproved your idea that "The price of shoes/capes should not be affected by each other." No idiot is going to pay 22b to upgrade 1 wpn atk over 4 wpn atk if the supposed case were to happen which clearly means that the price of shoes DO effect each other. You cant tell me its a "Nebulous idea" that cape and shoe prices are related unless you can prove to me that people will still choose 1 wpn atk on their cape over 4 for the same amount. In your example you say "Lets just say, prices of capes will stay constant" but if shoe prices were to fall in the way we imagined there is no way the prices of capes will stay constant since it just lost a massive amount of demand to cheaper shoes. Eventually this will stabilize more toward what you are saying, however cape prices will not go back to the way it was for a very long time unless shoe prices go back as well. Lastly your car and house comparison doesn't work because a car and house have completely different functions. On the other hand wpn atk of a cape or shoe serves 100% the same purpose
I would pay 50b-100b more for 1wa on a high end wa gear that probably only comes once in 2-3 years like.. a 27-28 cape for example than pay for 2-3 wa upgrade on a 22-23 shoe. Because its easier to find 22-23 shoes on the market than a 27-28 wa cape. vice versa would also do the same for a 27-28 red sock (because its not possible to get this wa on a fs) than get 2-3 wa upgrades on a cape
Coming from a person who has been upgrading their CGS lately, I think there are is a cut-off point when it comes to efficient upgrading. Most people I know, including myself, will usually look for the most "cost-effective" way to upgrade CGS all the way up to maybe 55-60 total CGS. Up till that point, I personally feel that the prices of CGS are affected by each other to a degree, simply because all 3 are the only items that give WA outside of weapons/untradeables etc. Once you hit something like | 20-21wa Cape | 22-23wa Gloves | 17-18wa + Shoes | - prices become a bit different. I assume this is because there is a lower supply of CGS above this WA level, and after a certain point, you reach min-maxing territory, where you may have the money to upgrade, but no equipment is available to be purchased at any given time. For example Person A is looking to upgrade their cape from 24 > 25, is subject to a 25 cape being available. If a 25 cape never comes up for sale, regardless of what Person A is willing to pay to upgrade (whether market value diff, double market value diff), there just simply isn't a cape available. Maybe Person A offers a ridiculous amount to upgrade, and sways Person B (who never intended to sell/downgrade their cape) take the offer. Then from that sale onwards, does the value of 25 cape now reference the most recent ridiculous sale price? I feel its a sellers market at that point, because for them there isn't really an opportunity to upgrade anymore (26+ cape scarce/non existent. etc.) When something is a one-off/first of its kind in some way (referencing the 24/1 cape that was made this year) the market price is basically whatever someone is willing to pay for it. There isn't an exact market value, or ballpark value, people just try and justify what THEY want to pay for the cape, and the price THEY want to get it at. Also I think that Gloves are kinda different from Shoe and Cape as Gloves can be finished with 10% + WS and 100% event scrolls, have to take THAT into account.
Things are priced based on what people are willing to pay What people are willing to pay isnt always the true value, especially in a small server where one person can change the price of even the most commonly traded items like cs. This matters more for the highest att cgs where there's only a few people who've ever hit cgs that high. People pay extra money for yellow items over purple even though they're the same att That said, i think pricing of capes and shoes are mostly affected by supply. Very few people would care whether their att comes from a cape or shoe if they were the same price. each player demands a cape and shoe at 1:1 barring a few exceptions, so lets look at supply to understand price. The total supply is determined by the drop rate and how often players engage with that content to roll the dice. A 1-4 att cape is in high supply because a lot of ppl do cwk/gach where pac/pgc/bfc are rolled and/or the drop rate is relatively high. The drop rate of tarus for FS, RS, and VL boot and the frequncy of these rolls on the RNG being done by players is low relative to capes. Tarus drop rate is low, RS drop rate is low and only can be rolled one month of the year, and VL is rolled only by end game players twice a week and takes a bunch of organization/time This difference in supply is even more drastic for higher att capes and shoes because the sources of capes pretty much all roll the godly system RNG, whereas FS and RS never roll godly rng, only VL boots do. Gloves work a little differently because gloves can be 10/30 percent scrolled for weapon attack. whereas capes/shoes cannot Tldr Shoes are more expensive than capes mostly because of how they are supplied. capes are easier to get than shoes, so they're cheaper. The main factors are: Drop rate How often players roll the dice How hard it is/how long it takes to roll the dice
You've missed the point of the thread. The thread is about why BFC's are more expensive than FS with the 3atk modifier while you are concluding the opposite. You missed the part about the 3 atk difference. No one is questioning why a shoe with 7atk is worth more than a 7atk cape. Rather we are questioning why a 12 atk shoe is worth less than a 15 atk Cape and so on
You may be right at extremely high atk gear things can get more volatile, however I can say with confidence prices are very consistent until at least 62 CGS and probably a decent bit beyond it. Players using above 62 CGS is less than 1% of players. According to the standards you are describing 99% of players are in the range of looking for the most cost-effective method which further proves my point of cape and shoe prices being directly related.
The argument about rs is pretty weak. According to @Ghostie ’s data, every successful vl run gives about 0.75 vl boots. If 100 vl runs are cleared per week, there would be thousands of vl boots a year. Also there are maybe a few to 10 thousands of fs crafted a year. Rs, however, is much rarer, and the price of shoes would not be affected much by socks. (Less than 1 in 65 socks would be gold; and less than 1 in 12.4 socks would be purple.)
Interesting, what's @Ghostie 's sample size? I've got 0.93 boots per run from a 115 run sample (107 boots / 115 runs), so that seems pretty significantly different I'd say your 1-10k FS/year seems pretty reasonable, and not sure but 100 VL runs/week would be 14/day = about a clear every 2 hours which seems roughly reasonable
your sample size is much bigger! Thank you for the info. @Ghostie is super lazy lately and doesn't host runs or update info anymore. LF>ghostie
quick question- among shoes that have more than 20 atk (21+) that has been made since VL what do you think is the ratio would be between FS vs RS + VL? I would think it would be at best 1-5 but more like 1-10+, but you probably have a more experienced guess
FS ~ 1 in (600/n) socks, non-godly VL ~ 1 in (200/m) Where n and m is related to whether or not to ws on the 2nd slot. n ~= 0.6 (cuz ppl only ws 7/4) m slightly larger than 0.6 (cuz ppl would ws 8/5, 7/5, 6/5) so the ratio you are looking for is [1/(600/n)]/[1/(200/m)] = n/(3m) ~ 1/4 Godly VL is just like 7 slot 1~3 shoes with a 0 ~ +5 "chaos", and it only makes the ratio smaller (i.e. more 21+ on VL than FS). You may reach similar a result with the methods in https://royals.ms/forum/threads/chaos-tool-by-zenoooo.248626/ Also, you could try to sum up the number of 20~25 cape (start point 10/5), and the number of 18~23 shoes (start point 7/6), and compare the numbers. Also toggle the sum range up and down to see if you find something. (Note: 10/5 about the same price as 7/6.) I think this would answer why currently at high ATT, cape ~= shoes + 2. (But not too high! 34/35 is much rarer than 35/36 shoes. The server, however, does not have many cape or shoes 28+, so we may consider lower range.)
I did not read your conclusions because it's pointless to comment on the final answer when the premise is wrong.
if you haven't already, i suggest reading Zeno's posts on chaosed items values. She pretty much wrote a thesis on the subject.
Seems like your have strong conviction that I am wrong which is fine. So basically you disagree with the idea that RS has much impact on shoe prices is that correct? If so let me ask you 2 questions: 1. Lets go back to before VL boots were introduced when it was just FS and RS for shoes. Shoes are more or less equivalent to a cape with 3 higher atk and as we go higher in atk the gap eventually becomes 2 which was true before VL as well . Do you think if RS didn't exist at this time that this would still be true? or do you think it would actually be the opposite since without RS, capes would have had the far higher potential considering the 3atk modifier? 2. I believe a 3/6 VL boots is around 1b and Clean RS is 1.8b? If RS dropped to 1b, do you think 3/6 VL boots would remain unaffected and still be 1b?
1. At high ATT, is cape = shoes+2 att? Yes, and according to the old price guides, this has been the case since a long time ago. 2. Is the red sock argument reasonable? No, I don't think so. Still, due to the low supply. 3. Is the chaos tool the answer? No, it's probably just a coincidence. 4. Why is cape of x ATT more expensive than shoes of x-3 att (at high ATT)? IDK.
