Yup, and I believe they achieve that through complex play (VL) and the active attacker system (LHC). I don't think it would make sense to make all the PQs and expeditions harder, that also just seems like a lot of work (pls leave my honktale alone), which is why I believe applying the LHC active attacker system with increased boss drop rate (instead of EXP like in LHC) for more active attackers would make better sense.
Mage farming is only good in an environment where everything is cheap. If you make prices more inflated throughout the server, doing content and gaining sellable items will be better than mage farming (they are the only ones who benefit from a deflation economy since their gains are in pure mesos). My initial suggestion was to add RG Mesos back but after speaking with other players and gaining feedback, it seems like adding the mesos to a teamplay content is more anti-RWT proof and also positive to the server. Adding it to low level content will be exploitable by hackers and botters for RWT and therefore will probably be declined as a suggestion by the staff. The current best idea that I have is to incorporate some sort of mesos income into VL bonus stage. I think we already exhausted with the theory of how macro economics that was discussed in this thread. If you have any other specific idea that could be discussed as an alternative you are welcome to share it on the thread for discussion. Please keep in mind that topics like class balancing are irrelevant for this matter unless discussed in regards to a specific idea so keep the thread on topic.
I think you're got blinders on while looking at the economy from the eyes of a meso farmer, and in the strictest sense from that perspective you're absolutely right. If a meso farmer making 120-140m/hr base meso running 4 client 2 cc uwu or pepe/yeti farm sees gen30+mw20 prices jump back to covid 1b+2b levels, and they can gamble an expedition run running duo attacker trio to make 1b in 1-1.5 hours of effort, of course they'd rather do that instead of farming. But if your economy goes upside down to the point where meso farming is somehow worse than bossing (averaged out to account for rngesus)... that's talking about inflating goods and services to the point where where regular and new players can't even boss for profit - this kind of inflation is incredibly recessionary and would kill an already oppressive game for lower and middle classes new/mid, regular, casual players. Agree on teamplay content, full stop Why would that be the case though? What makes "low level" content different compared to "high level" content that makes the latter less exploitable? I can't comment on VL income on its own, but only strictly implementing additional meso will only cause inflation, and to VL only continues to lock everyone but established/end game players out. I agree class balancing is irrelevant to this conversation (shad+bucc meta 4eva). Economics is in-scope for this thread. Discussion of game economics goes hand in hand with conversations about "[additional] meso making methods [in] the server." You can't have one without the other.
That argument does not hold water since most new players do not gain pure mesos, but items they sell for mesos. Inflation will cause goods and services to be higher but will also make whatever they are selling more valuable which should not impact their profit margins from doing low level content. I do not have any blindness. I have seen Taru Totem and BWG which new players get from gacha go from around 450m to around 250-300m just this year. Being a new player is way harder in deflating economy rather than in inflating one becuase maplestory isn't the real world. You dont get paid in pure mesos for doing content unless you 1. leech (minimal impact since most of ur mesos comes from getting paid by leechers or from godly system drops) or 2. mage farm. Even 30% scroll prices are lower nowdays. If a new player goes to mushroom shrine with nx to gacha, he is getting way less in profit from doing so. If anything, causing an inflation gives new players the advantage to explore other forms of gaining mesos that are not leeching with good income ratios compared to their expenses. I already addressed that point many times in this thread. You are welcome to read it out (mostly on page 4). I am not gonna repeat that every time someone is joining the conversation.
The “end multi client” conversation on fixing the economy I think is unreasonable. Similar to irl problems implementing a detrimental system like this without first having the infrastructure to support it leads to serious problems. Idk where to find the stats but I’m sure if we looked at active player by class you’d find there isn’t enough actual bowmasters and marksman to go around for all the NL in the game. If you cut Multiclient we then have a ton of bossing parties fighting over any attackers either SE to join their party. As this is an old old old game there isn’t a high influx of new players. if we don’t see higher drop rates somewhere w/ losing multiplier you then also lose a large amount of equips to scroll. Meaning prices skyrocket. While I think in a perfect royals we wouldn’t have multiclient, I believe it’s unrealistic to expect that to ever happen- high potential to kill the server. I see so many parties with HS, SE, and CR mules. Before crash I don’t think the paladin mains in server were countable on fingers. Also as an additional point: if for some reason the above was all a non-issue. The server becomes pay to win, where people who can afford multiple computers or laptops can still multi. If multi is tracked through individual PCs you get p2w if it’s by IP then anyone who plays with roommates/ significant others/ family gets wrecked ™ I still think boosting low level economy is the move. End game players make enough… if you can spend 6+b on attack gear alone I don’t wanna hear about how difficult it is to make enough meso to increase your 30watt gear to 40 or whatever. I think new players being able to buy their first gear without having to set up a farming mule, or be able to buy leech to get to 4th job would help more than anything
Ease HP washing, improve untradeables or add better ones, and bring more buffs to the class balances. It's no surprise that the economy and pretty much the entire game health would be much better if there were just more players to begin with (even 1 new lasting player can result in 6 new chars that need gearing and increasing demand for stuff in general). When anyone joins and is hit with a supposed 20b requirement wall to even start "playing" then it's going to turn away a ton of players. Yea some stick around, but I'm sure the data is pretty bad regarding retention. HP Washing 1. 10b in APRs for base int, then reset int, and then to wash the HP. 5b to climb a rope and pay for leech or grind an ungodly amount at 3rd job (which basically has poor meso benefit). 6b to have serviceable CGS + an average weapon. No wonder the meta is bishop first; make mesos by mage farming / selling leech or ease this unbearably high bar by leeching yourself. This is a huge deterrent for most, even if I personally don't think people should stress about this. "Play warrior first", "Play Bucc, you don't need to wash as much", and "Play Shad, they have meso guard" are not solutions if the entry point is still railroading you to a specific class. 2. Yes there's HP Questing and Olaf which help a lot, but man, it feels like the majority of the player base absolutely hates questing in general and the ones who do actually HP quest are super time gated by it being once a day, which makes no sense to me. Ease it and tweak it to average more hp gain or something. Improve Untradeables or add better ones 1. The only remotely decent untradeable (not counting the bare basic staples like ZHelm and HTP) I'd say is the OPQ gloves, and even that falls short in the long run. People want to improve CGS because that improves their damage, which ultimately results in better respecting a players time for doing content. New players that don't start with a mage are basically relegated to hoping on prayers to hit in gacha or selling APRs as the only alternative to gearing up to be strong enough to 30min trio Krex, which is generally considered abysmally slow. Not to mention all the APQ people HAVE to do for appos, which is a 40 minute SLOG in itself. 2. For a purely hypothetical example, imagine doing another Olaf-like quest for 10 attack boots. Every task one does, they know they are actively progressing towards something tangible. Paired with OPQ Gloves, that's 23 CGS base, which is much better. This could also possibly tank the boot market enough where now it pushes rich people to actually try hitting CS on boots rather than saving infinite mesos to bid on the next random 29att boots someone else makes. It could also not tank since people may pay the premium of not wanting to EPQ 40 times instead, who knows. Improvements to Teamwork Tokens and rewards here could make it look more enticing. Buff class balance 1. This kind of ties in with the point above, since class balance improvements should help with the damage aspect which then improves the "respecting time" aspect. The more players are given options to have a baseline, the better that meso can be used for other things. 30 - 35 is usually the best average recommended CGS for people to have for clearing all content in a reasonable amount of time, so having something balanced around that might be good. Shouldn't affect mage farmers, they can keep doing the same thing for raw mesos + maintaining blue items market. Should help new players a lot by giving options. Gives a serviceable baseline character that they can improve and the mesos they can manage to save up at higher levels can be used for other things that improve their progress. HP Washing still exists to a degree, maintaining that APRs can still be sold for mesos because it's guaranteed some people will still not use alternative HP gaining methods. Possible influx of players now knowing that the game isn't so punishing should help everything. Royals, regardless of how true or not it is, has been labeled as Vote 2 win (because of how tied to progression it is if you aren't using a mage) and required HP washing. Shouldn't crash prices too hard since there are a ton of people that are willing to pay to not have to deal with the roundabout way to get this gear (look how many people still skip OPQ despite the guaranteed gloves). There's only so much we can actually talk and theorize about. Honestly, imo, the best thing is to just do something and see how it shakes up the market. Players can adapt. ...Or just add a mesos gacha that can print out everything but WS so people can print CS and gamba on everything, flooding the market and tanking the price of everything so everyone can afford something.
Honestly this made me realize something, the end game, "PQs" (I'm counting RG as a single player PQ) have so much choice and possibility EPQ With "BiS Earrings or a Decent ring?" RG has Ifia's ring or HP/MP pots or more totems to make the gacha sweeter. There's reason to do these over and over. But all the low level PQs have their one big prize (Slime Shoe, LPQ Glasses, OPQ Glove, LMPQ Nothing, R&J Necklace, PPQ hat) and that's it, and they get outclassed quickly that's it unlikely you're using after 120 especially on a main. LPQ > OPQ > PPQ > Is a solid path to 80-90, helps new players make friends that keep them around! But nobody has a reason to do them for some gear that quickly gets outclassed or already is outclassed when they get it and some Tokens of teamwork that they have to use up for scrolls anyways Encourage more PQs by adding some new prizes to these or evergreen prizes. a 5-6 WA Cape, Max HP Pots, NX.... Hell create a reason to actually do an LMPQ outside of Olaf. There is LITERALLY no reason to do LMPQ instead of OPQ.
