(Lv issue) If characters above Lv100 could receive a level-based debuff — starting at -40% and scaling up to -80% at Lv200 (or 45%~90%) , and 4th job skills were disabled in BPQ, I think that could be a viable solution to "mule problem". (class balance advice) 1.Mage : Remove DP and add 1-hit kill 2.Archer : Make a unkillable MOB, danger in debuff/dmg, but dead in 30sec 3.Thief /pirate : no idea
I haven't fought the boss, but from the comments it seems it needs some balancing. I do love the idea of optional mid-level content though, this motivated me to make a new DK just to help with HB and have some fun. The shoulder is just a nice to have.
No godly roll indeed makes it a content newbie-friendly. I also understand the staff hope players to get used to tracking DR. But it seems too hard for new players, especially when they don't have ress. Mages and bowmen won't survive DR. Just one mistake would ruin the whole run for the dead ones. If they are a party of 6 made up of 4+ new players, losing one or two attacker(s) could lead to a failed run. Soon people would avoid taking mage/bm players to balrog... A lot of new players don't use forum or read any guide before doing contents. (I joined royals in Jan 2015 but used forum for the first time in Apr 2015 XD) Balrog on Royals is also different from other servers. A new player may try (and fail) a couple time before they try to figure out how to run Balrog on royals.
I don't play anymore, but would like to reiterate the sentiment that not adding HP to this item may have been a mistake, as I feel this is the stat that would be the most logical to add to this item.
I was able to survive the whole run today on my i/l with the timing method even tho we didn't clear in time. I do have to admit I was using some hp gears to survive dp better because I was trying to prioritize testing dr timing first, but I think it wouldn't be a huge problem after getting used to the animations. Even though surviving with the timing method is very possible, I think the current DR is a very bad design. DR doesn't come exactly on time, sometimes it has no delay, sometimes it has 10 sec delay. That forces low hp players to stare at their screen doing nothing for 10 sec, losing lots of damage. On the other hand, high hp classes like warriors or maybe bucc can just spam hit through DR, which makes them significantly more OP than other classes. Drk in that category stands out even more since they have good AOE, longer range, and additional value from keeping their team alive with HB. This new boss encourages people to create characters and play through the 3rd job, and that's a cool concept. But ideally, you want to drive people to try out different classes if they are working on multiple shoulder pads. From my observation, the majority of the people are just trying to make multiple Drks since it's the strongest and easiest for the task. You see good class diversity right now because the content is new, so people are using existing characters. But soon you will see a wave of Drks coming in and abandoning it after they get the pads. Balancing the difficulty and strength of classes should always be something kept in mind for new content. Going back to DR topic, I think there should be a delay between the cast animation and the actual DR buff. In fact, I found some OG maple clip, and that was exactly how DR worked for Balrog. I am surprised Royals didn't make it like that. Royals: OG maple: Doing that would make reacting to DR way more intuitive and avoid the disadvantages of using the timing method. I recall VL had the same problem with it, but there's some difficulty making the buff delay possible, so it got removed. And yet here we are, same issue, same problem with a new boss. If pb also has DR but with even more lethal damage, I would urge staff to look into how to make the buff delay possible so that the gameplay will be more enjoyable yet challenging at the same time.
I like the idea of this boss a lot. I just wonder if dispel and damage reflect is a bit much for the intended audience. If the 4k damage is accurate, perhaps it could be toned down. Royals already has a lot of content that is HP gated, and between 75-99 you won't have HP quest to fall back on, and only a small number of Olaf quests. I just think the graduation from fighting the likes of Lord Pirate to this boss is very steep. I like a challenge, but its perhaps too challenging.
Instead of adding hp or mp to this item, we gave it a healthy amount of weapon and magic defense which should serve the same purpose (you take less incoming damage so your hp/mp requirement decreases) and could arguably be a better choice as some of the (main) characters wearing the shoulders are already 30k hp, mp or both. All mob skills in Royals seem to activate as the animation starts, instead of after the animation plays like it did in the original version. That is something I want to look into at some point as we want these boss challenges to be more predictable by tracking the right animations and giving you more than a handful of milliseconds to react. regular mob skills and attacks of the balrog dont exceed ~2500 damage if you're normally equipped to face this boss. There are no HP washing or HP equips required for the level range this boss is targeted at. Regarding the difficulty of dispel and damage reflect, we want players to learn how to read boss animations for upcoming mob skills and have them be impactful. If they are handled poorly, the player is punished and loses the fight. As mentioned above we do want to look into giving the proper reaction time for this.
You should still consider folks (most, by a magnitude of probably 20, as opposed to some--) do not have max hp or mp, and never will, and add hp as well, if we're suddenly caring about w.def as an "hp adjacent alternative". Not helping the majority out and saying it has defense is a wacky choice and thing to defend with an already controversial time sink equip when hp is the biggest issue players struggle with
- What should we consider for the folks that don't have max hp or mp? - What's the difference regarding survival in net incoming damage between having more weapon and magic defense as opposed to having more hp? - How is the majority of players not helped out with more weapon and magic defense? - What makes this a wacky choice?
Not doing both is wacky, when trying to help both out. But OK I'll answer-- 1. HP and MP 2. that's for you and staff to know, not me to answer for staff. people want to survive a 1hko, not pray for good defense rolls 3. nobody defense washes, they don't need defense, it's a negligible and ignored stat bc nobody wears normal gear, they use att scrolled common equips. people need hp before they factor def 4. never have I seen staff take this "no it doesn't have hp but it has def" position before and hopefully they never do again 5. not doing both is a wacky choice, if you're trying to appeal to both. you're only appealing to folks with max stats, and saying defense is good for everyone, something I've never heard staff say, it's wacky The meta you curate demands hp, so it's wacky/oblivious sounding to not include it while saying it's nice for people who washed to 30k, while having a sig that says 30k or gtfo, which no character should need or have without hb, that's such a fractional demographic of folks, players need hp and it's not unreasonable to suggest such an exclusive and out of the way grind item also include hp and def, for both demos
I don't know what stick is up cooler's butt, but I frankly think that the event is pretty well thought out, I think the gear, although not game defining is still awesome for what it is. You can't really give people what they want otherwise your game's power creep gets really bad, because they want it for them, but don't realize everyone else gets it to.It's a skill based boss. It's content that's MEANT to be different. It's not meant to be another daily on the pile to spam like Krex. Some players will love this and others won't. It's not meant to be everyone content, and I kinda love it for that. I know that I'll get a shoulder eventually, but it's dropped down my priority list as I tend to play mages, and my chars are either way above or below the level range as I took my 78 F/P and rushed through the content hoping to try out this boss and... ... I found out I suck at bossing. I love that I'm seeing people smega looking for parties. I think it's fine, I actually like the extra def more than HP. After all most end game bosses do a 1/1 attack anyways. I know when my Clerics get their Zhelms Coolies become something I have to focus on to a grinding spot because of the extra def. I'm curious though what it'll be say 6 months from now though; I think it's going to wind up like toad. Some dedicated sellers, but once the main appeal dies down, it's not going to be a daily. I think it needs some tweaking, but not in the way others are saying, but enough to keep people motivated to do it. I do feel the shoulder needed something small. Maybe a splash of Accuracy or Speed/Jump would be nice. For a heavy buff a token of teamwork scroll for another +1/+2 on a specific stat. As for the PQ itself. It should definitely include Tokens of Teamwork. I think it should have some other drops which can be useful especially for players in that level range. Maybe it could randomly drop the 77 Maple Weapons, it's the right level range for that. Either way, thank you devs, I love thinking outside the box and accommodating other play styles. I don't think it's ground breaking content, but it's definitely got it's place and makes the game just a little bit bigger.
formulas: Weapon defense: MAX damage = (MAX before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*0.5 MIN damage = (MIN before defense) * (1 - 0.01*D) - WDEF*0.6 where D is (monster level - player level) if (monster level) > (player level), and 0 otherwise. Magic Defense: MAX damage = (MAX before defense) - MDEF*0.5 * (1 + 0.01*D) MIN damage = (MIN before defense) - MDEF*0.6 * (1 + 0.01*D) What we took into account deciding the stats of the shoulder is: - Having WDEF and MDEF on your equipment (like the shoulder does) gives static reductions in incoming damage (max and min) - Equipping items with those defensive stats do not subject themselves to a high or low damage roll. - The average defense on the shoulders are equivalent to 50 hp on max damage and 60 hp on min damage. - Defense is good for everyone that's fighting mobs that hit higher than half of their total defenses. Do you see having 50 extra HP different than having 100 in defenses? To me the defense achieves the same result as the HP would, but as an added bonus it works all the time, even if your character has reached max hp.
Nothing against the pq or the fight, I've asked for this pq and posted a lot of feedback for it, happy it's here, not remotely complaining about it. I like the difficulty too. Great for brand new chars/players Pausing a main to side level a separate dk (since it's not worth any other class at all since it's tied to your main and you can never use it to dual if you want to) into the mid 70s for an item to just give to your main, with not great stats is the issue I and frankly most people in the game ive talked to, and the thread Again if this can be upgraded through other items after its traded to your main, like tokens as have been suggested (and I'm also for this pq giving tokens, and a handful of other bosses as well, staff should really consider all expedition runs for tokens, it can be difficult to find pq parties sometimes), or gets slightly upgraded one time each major expedition boss run etc, then it's worth it and I'm interested. Or a blessing of cygnus type gradual buff starting at 100 or 120 etc. I don't think it's worth the time and an entire throwaway character either, that's especially arbitrary as most folks agree. I think if the pad was a bit buffed, or could be upgraded, people would consider, which is why again I say if it's something staff is considering, sooner is better. +0-5 stats (rng) 100-200 hp/mp (random) 100-200 w/m def (random) even without upgrades id happily participate with something more like this The idea of buffing def in general has been repeatedly suggested for basically all 12 years of the server's life so the sudden hp/def equivocation of "actually def equals hp if you think about it" is a tad cheeky to be honest. Suddenly drip feeding def and saying it's hp is not the same, and frankly using such an out of the way item to vehicle it is not where I'd start either, but what do I know
The main difference between 1 HP and 2 def is that HP is a lot more visible, and it's common to ignore def when figuring out HP requirements, since that's so much more annoying to take into account. So when someone sees that they need 17.5k HP for a boss, this shoulder won't contribute to that, as they will not run the boss before 17.5k hp, even if technically they have enough def to survive. It's a visibility issue, not an actual math issue. On the other hand, I'm sure DKs will appreciate the extra def as it helps (a little bit) with zerking easier.
Drk here, that extra 100 def is definitely worth it for some tight zerking situations like toad, royal guard, VL, auf. Idrc about the stats they're just a bonus. I'm grinding out a mule cause this boss looks fun!
Happy to make a mule to get the shoulders for my bishop thats missing 1 luk to be able to equip lapiz! (Feedback I guess: ) Also, idk if it is or will be possible to join the pq on all class/jobs but if so it would be a nice way to kinda test out new potential characters, even if it will only reach 3rd job. Maybe adding safe spots in the boss fight for ranged classes, or adding some special pq drops before the boss fight to grant extra max hp which isnt dispelled by the boss. Has anyone tried Archer/Pirate? would like to experiment with those. Everything has pros and cons, glad to have new content anyway
Just did Balrog PQ for the first 2 times. Would say interesting content! I think to minimise DK muling duo/trio the entire balrog PQ, if you can enforce at least 1 role of each class similar to that of CWK, you might be able to prevent players from all making a particular job to do the balrog pq to multi-client the run. Or an alternative suggestion is you can limit a class to 2 of a class. So 2 warriors max in a run, so on and so forth. Just a food for thought.
Not sure anyone gonna like my feedback but why not making the shoulder with 1 slot and tradeable one of a kind so new players could sell it to get some extra funds ( could help for leech past 100 I guess) and the veteran would loose mesos for csing a shoulder trying to hit the famous +5 we all desire. That way we can have a reward boss introduction at lower lvl they can get more familiar with how usually we split loot in this server and also function as a mesos sink. Eventually the 3 stats shoulder wouldn’t be dominate and it’s also a nice random loot introduction to the new players. This boss would be like a mini ht for the lower lvls. Overall I think it’s a very cool idea regardless yet it might be too tanky for new players
+3 all stats on a new item slot is already very strong and should be implemented carefully to not break the game. Secondary stat requirements are important for balance and when you release items that can eliminate them/make them trivial you can potentially ruin the market in irreversible ways. With your suggestion (or godly system thats thankfully did not get included in this) this is exactly what will happen. In a sense it's a similar issue to what Auf Helms created, but potentially on a bigger scale because this will be available server wide and not gated behind 160b cost. Here's an extreme example: How do you make the eventual Timeless weapons release not be a direct upgrade to Dragon weapons? If their 160 Dex requirement is trivial, that would just make them better in every way and as a result impossible to balance. There needs to be a sacrifice when you equip higher level equips. So no, I don't like that suggestion and frankly I don't like introducting a new slot too, but I suppose 3 all stat will not entirely break the market, but just let some players equip Dragon weapons easier.
