NOTE: Discussion is on going, nothing is finalized or concluded. UPDATE: Edited calculations to match @Ayane's findings on Inferno/Blizzard ele weakness formula and @FeiLongHuang's numbers on Inferno's 25% ele weakness instead of 50% Hi Yea. It's me again. Am bored. More maths and numbers. (with SE included this time ecksdeeee) I was just finding out which skill should BMs use in LHC when @nutleafcity hit me with this one: Why don't BMs use Inferno in HT? TLDR is the summary below. So lesgooo.. Facts Some facts I will use for the calculation part. Spoiler: Facts Hurricane (per arrow) All: 120ms Strafe/Arrow Rain/Inferno/Arrow Bomb/Normal Attack Faster (2): 600ms (-210ms) Faster (3): 660ms (-150ms) Fast (4): 720ms (-90ms) Fast (5): 750ms (-60ms) Normal (6): 810ms Strafe/Arrow Eruption/Blizzard/Iron Arrow/Normal Attack/Pierce Faster (2): 630ms (-240ms) Faster (3): 690ms (-180ms) Fast (4): 720ms (-150ms) Fast (5): 780ms (-90ms) Normal (6): 870ms Hurricane power: 100% Inferno power: 150% (Fire Element) Strafe (MM) power: 125% Blizzard power: 140% (Ice Element) but can't crit kekwww Based on: https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-formula-compilation/ Inferno/Blizzard element: Advantage = Base damage * (110% + Skill level * 0.5%) Disadvantage = Base damage * (90% - Skill level * 0.5%) Critical Shot Chance: 40% Critical Shot Damage: 200% Sharp Eyes Chance: +15% Sharp Eyes Damage: +40% Total Crit Chance: 55% Total Crit Damage: 240% Based on: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/comprehensive-paladin-guide-haplopelma.161247/ by @Haplopelma Calculations BMs Spoiler: BM Calculations Hurricane: Spoiler: Hurricane Damage Hurricane uses 8.33 arrows per second, 500 arrows per minute. 275 arrows expected to be crit (55% crit chance). 225 non-crit hits x 100% power = 22,500% per minute to one target 275 crit hits x (100% + 240%) power = 66,000% per minute to one target Total DPM 22,500 + 66,000 = 88,500% Bow Booster: Spoiler: Bow Booster Inferno: Inferno with Booster (Speed (4)) uses 1 arrow per 0.72s, 83 arrows per minute. Can hit Head B + Head C + R + W. Head C and L are weak to fire. Therefore x1.25 ele weakness multiplier (according to Inferno element modifier in facts above). Inferno will hit 2 line per 0.72s, 166 lines per minute to Head B and Wing. 91 lines are expected to be crit. The same for Head C and R. Wing + Head B 75 non-crit hits x 150% power = 11,250% per minute to Wing. 91 crit hits x (150% + 240%) power = 35,490% per minute to Wing. Head C + R 75 non-crit hits x 150% power x 1.25 elemental weakness = 14,062.5% per minute to Head C and R. 91 crit hits x (150% + 240%) power x 1.25 elemental weakness = 44,362.5% per minute to Head C and R. Total DPM 11,250 + 35,490 + 14,062.5 + 44,362.5 = 105,435% Difference: Inferno will do 1.19x more than Hurricane per minute. Bow Booster + Speed Infusion: Spoiler: Booster + SI Inferno with Booster + SI (Faster (2)) uses 1 arrow per 0.6s, 100 arrows per minute. Inferno will hit 2 lines per 0.6s, 200 lines per minute to Head B and Wing. 110 lines are expected to be crit. The same for Head C and R. Head B + Wing 90 non-crit hits x 150% power = 13,500% per minute to Head B and Wing. 110 crit hits x (150% + 240%) power = 42,900% per minute to Head B and Wing. Head C + R 90 non-crit hits x 150% power x 1.25 elemental weakness = 16,875% per minute to Head C and R. 110 crit hits x (150% + 240%) power x 1.25 elemental weakness = 53,625% per minute to Head C and R. Total DPM 13,500 + 42,900 + 16,875 + 53,625 = 126,900% Difference Inferno will do 1.43x more than Hurricane per minute. SI provides a 1.2x boost in DPM to inferno. MMs Spoiler: MM Calculations Crossbow Booster: Spoiler: Strafe Strafe with Booster (Speed (4)) uses 4 arrows per 0.72s, 333 arrows per minute. 183 arrows are expected to be crit (55% crit chance). 150 non-crits * 125% power = 18,750% per minute to one target. 183 crits * (125% + 240%) power = 66,795% per minute to one target. Total DPM 18,750 + 66,795 = 85,545% Spoiler: Blizzard Blizzard with Booster (Speed (4)) uses 1 arrow per 0.72s, 83 arrows per minute. Can hit Head B + Head C + R + Wing. Head B and Wing are weak to ice. Therefore 1.5x ele weakness multiplier. Blizzard will hit 2 lines per 0.6s, 200 lines per minute to Head B and Wing. Blizzard cannot crit. lel The same for Head C and R. Head C + R 200 non-crit hits x 140% power = 28,000% per minute to Wing. Head B + Wing 200 non-crit hits x 140% power x 1.5 elemental weakness = 42,000% per minute to Head C and R. Total DPM 28,000 + 42,000 = 70,000% Difference Strafe does 1.22x more than Blizzard. so sorry u MMs ;w; Booster + Speed Infusion: Spoiler: Booster + Speed Infusion Nah. Blizzard already lost to Booster alone LOL. SI boosts both to same speed. Same maths. Summary With Booster, Inferno will do 1.19x more than Hurricane per minute when attacking on right side of HT (Hurricane 88,500% vs Inferno 105,435%). With SI, Inferno will do 1.43x more than Hurricane per minute when attacking on right side of HT (Hurricane 88,500% vs Inferno 126,900%). Blizzard don't stand a chance.. sorry MMs.. Discussion So.. should this be new meta? Need to do another video analysis? Am I missing some maths? MM buff pls? ;w; I haven't tried Inferno reach on left side of HT. But Inferno on the right side seems to be more efficient at least on paper. Credits to @nutleafcity and @wooa for encouraging me to post this.
yeah it works but u get knocked down all the time when 4 parting with a bm. its only viable when u have shadowers in ur party for smoke
I see what you mean. The advantage that hurricane has over Inferno is that it is able to stop anytime. So repositioning is much simpler with hurricane. Inferno on the other hand, is a 0.6s animation lock with SI on its own. Repositioning would be a lot harder. Would be nice to see more BMs try it out and see if the knockback is making Inferno lack behind Hurricane. 0.72 sec without SI sounds like repositioning is in between every skill animation. But not sure how much will that push Inferno back. Maybe video analysis..
Hello fellow archers, I'm late to the theory-crafting party but I have numbers to input here (considerably a long one), so please bear with me INTRODUCTION This particular post will focus on the mechanics of Inferno skill, DoT factor will not be included. This is to provide updates to you other theory-crafters so we could further refine the overall calculations. Hopefully, providing grounds for better informed decisions for personal archering tactics. [To non-theory-crafting readers, keep in mind theoretical calculation is always based on simulated ideal conditions, there's always bound to be difference from field experience in some way. Though, knowing some sound proven theories will help in making informed decisions when encountering different situations.] THE FOUNDATION Painstakingly testing on mobs with similar defensive stats and various elemental affinity to gather data and iterate formula arrangement: Spoiler: Test References Formula reference: Legacy formula compiled by Ayumi Mob tested Low DEF reference: 3 DEF Neutral: .......... Weak: High DEF reference: 800 DEF Resist: .......... Neutral: .......... Weak: After making sure the simulated damage range fits with the actual damage range (lots of burning involved, now my stores full of cooked horse meat), this is the formula arrangement that I'm about 95% confident with: Spoiler: Inferno Formula Core formula BaseMIN = MIN * ElementMult * LvlDiffMult - Monster.WDef * 0.6 BaseMAX = MAX * ElementMult * LvlDiffMult - Monster.WDef * 0.5 <A value between BaseMIN and BaseMAX randomly chosen as BaseDmg> FinalDmg = BaseDmg * ( SkillMult + CritMult ) Details MIN = ( DEX * 0.9 * Mastery + STR ) * WAtk / 100 MAX = ( DEX + STR ) * WAtk / 100 ElementMult = (Fire weak) 1.1 + Inferno.SkillLvl * 0.005 (Neutral) 1 (Fire resist) 0.9 - Inferno.SkillLvl * 0.005 LvlDiffMult = [ 1 - 0.01 * ( MonsterLvl - PlayerLvl ) ] <only apply when monster level higher than player level> SkillMult = 1.5 <Max Inferno = 150%> Critmult = 2.4 <Max Critical Shot = 100%, Max Sharp Eyes = 140%> Limitations Only tested with Inferno level 30 Only 2 sets of mobs being tested (low and high defense), more is always better but I'm getting lazy THE MISCONCEPTION Now, with all the foundation in place, let's simplify the formula: Spoiler: What's removed and assumed Removing the monster defensive factor Ignore MIN, just looking at MAX to calculate MAX potential damage (also to remove the Mastery% factor) Tweak STR, DEX and WAtk (14 : 290 : 100) in a way that this results in 1000 BaseDmg (this number can be easily normalized to 100.0% damage if you so wish) Inferno, CS and SE at maxed level DmgFraction = BaseDmg * ElementMult * Crit&SkillMult * CritRate Average = CriticalFraction + Non.CriticalFraction Hence we get the average damage: [1000 * 1.25 * 3.9 * 0.55] + [1000 * 1.25 * 1.5 * (1 - 0.55) ] = 3525 (Fire weak) [1000 * 1.00 * 3.9 * 0.55] + [1000 * 1.00 * 1.5 * (1 - 0.55) ] = 2820 (Neutral) [1000 * 0.75 * 3.9 * 0.55] + [1000 * 0.75 * 1.5 * (1 - 0.55) ] = 2115 (Fire resist) 25% damage difference Here in this simplified condition, there seems to be a misconception that fire weak/resist monster suffers 50% more/less damage. Where in actual fact it's exactly 25% difference when the monster has no defense. Considering the position of the "elemental multiplier" is placed within the damage formula, this difference will be influenced by monster defensive value. As shown in the following table: TAKEAWAY When calculating for the elemental multiplier by Inferno, I would recommend to use 25% difference instead of 50%. Only use 50% difference when monster defensive value is being factored into the final damage calculation against high defensive value target. The higher the defense value, the lower the true damage of Inferno skill, however damage difference between neutral and fire weak targets becomes more significant. Edit: 2021/08/23: Data table for better clarity, fix monster reference images *I'm thinking of simulating the whole shenanigans around comparing DPM (in horntail stage) between Hurricane and Inferno while taking both monster defense and elemental attribute into account. But I'll leave this for another day. This post is long enough as it is.
Great work! Very interesting numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought there were no elemental resistance from monsters? I had reference from a pally friend that the damage would be neutral, or I might have misread that if that were the case. I will recalculate the main post using 25% difference. Thank you for the work you put in for this! EDIT: Ah okay I think they meant HT doesn't have ele resist, only weaknesses. Just realized that. Monsters still do have weak/resist. SIDE NOTE: +1 Please do! Would love to see the outcome!
Inferno is only half fire based and not pure fire, so it only gives you +25% damage on fire weak, but when attacking fire immune mobs you'd do half damage and not hit 1. Phoenix on the other hand is pure fire
There are some formulas here https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-formula-compilation/ It only gives +25% bonus at lvl 30 and less at lower levels. The paladin charges on the other hand are pure elemental when maxed and give the full 50% bonus, but also hit 1 on immune mobs (like the Zak flying mobs)
!!! I see my mistake. Upon first glance I thought Inferno/Blizzard in the Modifiers section was the F/P and I/L AoE skill. Thank you for pointing this out!
Decided to give inferno a try since there were 2 buccaneers in my party (SI, 2x TL for smoke), here are some snippets of me using inferno with and without smoke. Note that I had ~setting criticals off. For bms who are are keen to try this method, you may stand on this platform when smoke is available. When smoke is not available, you may carefully position at the center of this platform and you will still hit 4 targets from here while not getting knocked back to the ground at all! I'm not really sure if this method maximizes a bm's dps over hurricane, as you can see there are lots of repositioning required. However, I do think this method is very viable as long SI is available and I'm a big fan of it. I never really imagined my bm to be a multi-target attacker in a boss, so discovering this new method was really fun!
Thank you for sharing! Very nice to see. You're right about it being viable as long as there is SI. I think the repositioning alone using Inferno can be challenging when without SI so I think SI is one way to make sure Inferno can at least be up to par, if not a little more than Hurricane. However, I believe you can have less repositioning if you stand further behind the platform. My tests were initially done here: That position will still allow you to hit 4 parts, hence allowing you to take 1 more hit before repositioning without smoke. Repositioning will be every 2 knockbacks. One more thing I found out recently with the help of @Crazyzhen (DeadcooL/iSkyNightz): Arrow Bomb splash damage does higher crit than Inferno/Arrow Rain. From https://ayumilovemaple.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/maplestory-formula-compilation/ Arrow Bomb: Impact Hit = 50% damage * Critical Multiplier Splash Hits = Skill damage * Critical Multiplier (Arrow Bomb's critical replaces the standard critical bonus, which is normally inserted into the skill damage %) You can also 4 part with Arrow Bomb, but to what extent Arrow Bomb does more efficiently than Inferno, I'm not too sure and have yet to calculate. I would appreciate @FeiLongHuang's insight on how Arrow Bomb performs higher crits than Inferno/Rain despite only having 130% damage, and if it's actually possible for Arrow Bomb to outperform Inferno despite the existing elemental weakness on HT.
Arrow bomb gets its damage multiplied by crits (130*3.4=442%) while other skills like rain are additive (160+240=400%) Also the 50% hit on first mob changed in royals in some patch a few years ago, and all hits hit 130% right now.
@FeiLongHuang Details how Arrow Bomb/Inferno/Hurricane do optimal dps and in what situations here: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/new...oad-to-lord-sniper.121936/page-4#post-1122965
Ayane is correct for this statement. I have personally tested for this sometime around 5 months ago(?). Arrow bomb has slightly different formula for its critical multiplier. This makes it a bit (or maybe quite a lot, depends how one looks at it) stronger when it crits, even when the base skill multiplier is lower than others such as Inferno. But one has to take into account that average damage of Arrow bomb includes both normal and critical damage. So, the critical RATE plays a significant role here to determine its average output. Take care not just looking solely at critical damage output. Hwaiting (in the previous post #15) has linked my older analysis for comparing average DPM output of different skills based on a defined parameter. Though, it's based on neutral elemental attribute so I have not performed any simulations that takes elemental weakness into account for Inferno. The simulation for this is indeed in my to-do list. Just that I'm busy lately so I'm not mentally in the mood to perform it yet. However, anyone who feels like making their own calculations can go ahead and propose their findings first. I'll be back with my own set of data later on.
Interesting.. More power to Arrow Bomb then hmm. Thanks for pointing this post out. I wasn't aware @FeiLongHuang was doing some impressive in-depth analysis of BM skills here. Very useful to refer. I also forgot to note that these skills are able to 4 part HT at the left side. However there are no elemental weaknesses. Spoiler: Calculations here So with inferno, Spoiler: Bow Booster only With Booster Inferno will hit 4 line per 0.72s, 332 lines per minute to Head A, Head B, L arm, Wing.. 182 lines are expected to be crit. Head A + Head B + L arm + Wing 150 non-crit hits x 150% power = 22,500% per minute to Head A, Head B, L arm, Wing. 182 crit hits x (150% + 240%) power = 70,980% per minute to Head A, Head B, L arm, Wing. Total DPM 22,500 + 70,980 = 93,480% per minute. Difference Inferno will do 1.06x (or 6%) more than Hurricane per minute at left side of HT. Spoiler: Booster + SI With SI Inferno will hit 4 lines per 0.6s, 400 lines per minute to Head A, Head B, L arm and Wing. 110 lines are expected to be crit. The same for Head C and R. Head A + Head B + L arm + Wing 180 non-crit hits x 150% power = 27,000% per minute to Head A, Head B, L arm and Wing. 220 crit hits x (150% + 240%) power = 85,800% per minute to Head A, Head B, L arm and Wing. Total DPM 27,000 + 85,800 = 112,800% per minute at left side of HT.. Difference Inferno will do 1.27x more than Hurricane per minute. Summary of maths: With Booster, Inferno will do 1.06x (or 6%) more than Hurricane per minute at left side of HT. With SI, Inferno will do 1.27x more than Hurricane per minute at left side of HT. If this is true without elemental weakness, then we should use Arrow Bomb for the left side of HT but Inferno for the right side of HT. POG BM HT RUNS NEW META ???
Still in theoretical stage, need multiple verification from field testers on HT boss. Considering there's a lot stuffs happening when doing bosses. So far I've only got 1 player feedback to me regarding arrow bomb usage feels better when bombing 4 parts. Need more confirmation.
Performed a controlled experiment comparing the difference between Arrow Bomb and Inferno at the right side of Horntail, unfortunately the results were rather disappointing. With the assumptions that (1) both skills have the exact same attack speed/casting time and (2) both skills scales equally as range increases, Inferno outperforms Arrow Bomb by a measly 2%. Spoiler: Arrow Bomb Spoiler: Inferno * Total sample size was 86. Each sample was taken only if the skill hits all 4 targets with no abnormalities (misses or 1 damage). Despite the disappointing results, some interesting observations were made: - Could the element of the Wings & Head B result in Inferno underperforming? According to @FeiLongHuang's theoretical calculations, Arrow Bomb should only deal 6.95% more damage than Inferno. However, in my experiment, Arrow Bomb does up to 10% more damage than Inferno for these parts. - Despite both the Right Arm & Head C having the same elemental weakness, Inferno only dealt 2% damage more than Arrow Bomb for the Right Arm, as compared to a significant difference of 23% for Head C. Anyhow, the results may be inaccurate due to the lack of a larger sample size, and range scaling difference between the two skills, if any. While my results favor Inferno, I would still stick with using Arrow Bomb given the insignificant difference, and that Arrow Bomb is more 'universal'. Lastly, thank you @Solsticio for accompanying my brother and I in this experiment.
Thank you for the valuable video data, it'll help in my later simulations. If you still remember your character's parameters, send me the following stats (DM me if you prefer these info to be private): [All values should already include any buffs/scrolled item bonus received such as MW, pots, upgraded gears, medal stats, etc...., when poking HT in the video] Total STR Total DEX Total weapon Attack from all sources (you'll have to manually add, character window won't show you) Confirm if both Bow Masteries, Critical Shot and Sharp Eyes are all maxed level? Inferno skill level Which bow weapon used?
