Chaos and/or White Scrolls Obtainable through mobs.

Obvious in the sense that new players will not be able to chaos / white scroll / hp wash or even scroll basic equips for themselves with most of the new player base spending most of their mesos on leeching. Giving new players more options to farm mitigates this issue. MapleDestiny had chaos scrolls drop from zombie mushrooms, ToT mobs, ect, and their economy was booming. Many players had a decently scrolled PGC and very few players were leeching. It was much more balanced and people had a blast grinding / bossing together. The server unfortunately was ruined by dupers which won't happen here because our GMs are amazing.

The majority that post on this forum are high level, experienced pros like Plenty, Inversion, etc.. I am representing the average person who tried this server and played for maybe 1-2 months. The kind of person who receives help from reading Plenty's guides (like myself). Being able to W/S and chaos makes the game more enjoyable for them.

"This game was not meant to be easy" - Injeenious / Plenty

Why should MapleRoyals be like RuneScape and only allow content to hardcore top pro players?

Why can't it be a balanced game where everyone has a chance to socialize / grind / boss / scroll together on an equal playing field? Like GMS 2004

 

Don't buy leech when you have no money and you won't be poor.

So basically they made bad decisions with their money and then quit when they realized it.

Our economy is nothing like that. My first character here was a 6k hp Marksman. That was two years ago. It took me two years to get where I am now. But I'm here. Some people got there faster, some people got there slower. All of us, ALL OF US worked hard to get there. There is not one single player who worked hard and put time and effort into this game that is still "suffering at the poverty line" as you describe it. Even the poorest of the people who work hard are better off than that.

Completely incorrect. They can farm Heartstoppers at Voodoos. They can reinvest that money into manipulating the Free Market for profit. They can use that money to gear up their character so that they can kill bosses faster. They can grind for mesos just like we had to. They can make money.

Please justify your answers to these questions. I do not understand how all of those answers are no, because I've done them all myself personally!

So grind by yourself. I do it all the time, and I know a lot of others who do too.

My cycle at the moment is farm items at bosses > sell for deflated price because the market is terrible right now > buy chaos/white scrolls and keep making godly items

I got there because my lower level strategy was: Gach rare item > use rare item to make more rare item > make money by selling rare item. I've never sold a Chaos or a White Scroll once on my entire time on this server, so I fail to see why you think selling them is the only way to use them.

Okay so this is where I laughed for a really long time. Introducing Chaos and White Scrolls as monster drops would mean that everyone who leeches (according to you, everyone except yourself) make less money because they don't train themselves. Also, it would make the people who do train themselves get access to items that would be worth significantly less than they currently are. The only source of income that your post has acknowledged to this point was Chaos Scrolls and White Scrolls coming from gachapon and being sold to high level players. Introducing them as monster drops would ruin that and literally take away the only source of income you acknowledge that these "poor people" have.

I'm honestly extremely sorry if this post seems like it's attacking you, it's just that I can find absolutely nothing reasonable in it.

I call injeenious a beautiful Korean girl all the time. She doesn't hate me. I think it has more to do with the rest of the way you act, but maybe that's not my place to say, and this sure isn't the place to say it; please take your personal vendettas to a different setting where we do not have to see it.


And as a final note, please keep this thread on topic; we're talking about reasons why Chaos and White Scrolls being obtainable through mobs might be a good idea, not why leech is destroying the world. Also, your funny gifs and videos are not welcome, especially if they're not even remotely on topic. Thank you.

 

Sigh...

Many people (myself included) do just fine without buying/selling leech (heck I even hit 200 in my main before making a bish). If you don't like this mechanic then don't use it, simple as that. Don't come here and try to change the game that people have been playing for over 2 years, you are better off looking for a server that suit your style.

Everyone starts with the same in royals, with nothing, and have the same tools to work with. People who made it far into the game was because of commitment and hard work, nothing else.

It is not the bishop who is gonna make you rich, is how comitted and organized you are, the only plus of the bishop is that as long as you are farming or selling leech your money will go up, but is in no way the fastest way to make money. I've scrolled in one day items that are worth more than the mesos I would make with my bishop in a week, as long as you know how to minimize the risk when scrolling, and you can deal with the occasional failure of it, this is a really good way to make mesos. There are also other things you can do to make your own fortune without a bish, like selling boss drops like zhelms, gen20 or ht books.

There is nothing in this game that is keeping people poor but their laziness and lack of commitment.

 

Goodness gracious. Where do I even begin? This is gonna be a long one.

I guess I'll address leech first since you dragged that into this conversation. Step down off of your soapbox for a second, and let me say that leeching is nowhere near the problem that you are exaggerating it to be. People leech, yes, but why are you so sure it destroys the game? And how do you know that "most of the new player base" is spending money leeching? And even if they are, they have to take time to obtain that money somehow; it doesn't just pop out of thin air to grant them levels.

And you can't remove leech. Yeah, I said it. Not just because it would be too drastic a change to implement this late in the life of the server, but how would you do it? If you nerf mage ults at all, you'd have to rebuild the entire magician 4th job from the ground up to make them viable somehow. Nerf the party exp ratio, and you hurt the grinding parties that I assume you want people to go back to (though I suppose that point could be argued). And even if you could "remove" leech, I don't think it's going to send us back in time and recreate those grind parties of old we have such fond nostalgia for. You and everyone else with the "leech is killing the game" mindset need to come off it. It was just as prevalent in official Maplestory.


Now then, back to the original topic of making Chaos and/or WS more accessible: Why? Let me pull up a quote:

"Why should MapleRoyals be like RuneScape and only allow content to hardcore top pro players?"

I can't speak for RuneScape, but I don't believe Royals is like this. What I do believe is that those who put more time into Royals are rewarded for that time, as is the case with MMOs in general. You don't need to be the top 2%, but you need to put some effort in if you want to do something like play with Chaos scrolls, and I don't think that's a bad thing. It's how the game is designed. The fucking problem is when people think that the people who won't/cant put in the time should have the same access to everything as the people that do/can, and it's that attitude in my opinion that makes today's MMOs absolute piles of garbage. A harsh mentality yes, but I believe if you don't put in the time, you don't get to be on the same level as the people that do.


Now my next point, which I'll pull another quote for:

"Why can't it be a balanced game where everyone has a chance to socialize / grind / boss / scroll together on an equal playing field? Like GMS 2004"

GMS is not, was not, and never will be "balanced". I feel like everyone's idea of "balance" has a lot of flaws that aren't immediately obvious. I'm not going to get into detail because I'll go off topic real quick, but a lot of the class balance threads for example are people trying too hard to balance something that never was even on official servers. I think I'm about done.

I'm trying as hard as I can not to be rude, but you're hitting all of my pet peeves at once.

 

I would like to tweak this and add "and the future state of Matt's server". This is a statement which not only applies to this thread, but many pieces of feedback in general. This is something I have brought up with the staff many times and as I told them, is one of the important factors I look at when choosing staff. For the most part., the staff of this server have been part of this community longer than most players and will also continue to be part of the community much after many players have left for one reason or another. A lot of the feedback, including this thread, focuses on fixing an "issue" now. It looks in the short term, and doesn't consider the long term effects it will have on the server, community, and longevity of Royals.

Proposals such as these which would have a large impact on the server's economy is not something that should be taken lightly. While the short term effects may be beneficial, the long term effects could literally cripple the server. So I ask that when you consider making feedback and voting one way or another, you try and take out your personal bias (let's admit it -- we're all looking out for our own playing experience primarily) and focus on what's best for the server. Not as it is right now, but rather as it is now and as it will be several months to years down the road.

*gets down from soap box*

 

That's like saying to a poor person, "don't buy healthy food or medication and you won't be poor". People are almost forced to buy leech at level 75 or else they have to take the alternative which is basically to grind miserably while everyone around you is leveling much faster. And because of this, is how the "rich get richer" comes to play in our economy.

Of course we work hard to get to where we want to be.

Think about this, does a big time venture capitalist investor deserve to make millions of dollars when making a few phone calls? He doesn't. He is taking advantage of an large economy where the majority of people cannot afford to start / maintain a business (I.E are poor. He is literally a shark who determines which business will be successful. He makes a lot of money because he TAKES ADVANTAGE of poor people trying to get rich). This is what I meant when I told my story about a new player gaching a chaos scroll.

Poor person gets lucky and have some money > Poor person invests in leech (business) as it is pretty much necessary given the state of the server (economy) > Rich get richer with more godlike items and mesos.

Compare him to a third world country doctor earning 40k / year. Both work hard. Both do not get rewarded equally.

Being a bishop is much like an investor. You can sell leech, buy chaos scrolls and scroll for mesos.

Being an average player is like being the doctor. You are grinding for mesos. Gaching for mesos, selling chaos scrolls / heartstoppers/ whatever you work your ass off for, for less reward. Now, it is impossible to chaos / white scroll for yourself because the investors (leech-sellers) hyper-inflated the price of w/s and chaos because new players need the mesos for leech. You see where I am getting at?

And once again, an entire server of investors / bishops is not a friendly one for making friends / grinding together. It is cold and isolated, judging from my personal experience at petris and skeles. I am not saying that the community is bad right now. It is fantastic. I am saying that it can be better in the long run.

I cannot ignore a game breaking mechanic that affects the entire community. I love this game TOO DAMN MUCH.

I am proposing this.

Proposal #1: Nerf leech with necessary damage to exp ratios to the point where leeching is not better than grinding with a priest and attackers. Leeching should not be better than attacking.

<This was implemented in GMS almost immediately when 4th job came out guys. Nexon knows what they were doing. Bishops and Mages will not be useless holy shit. Bishops still have HS and Mages have amazing farming / mobbing. (Seriously Mages are still good at bossing , cmon DPS ain't everything!)>

Proposal #2 (which will be fixed anyways if first proposal is met): Make popular high level mobs such as Temple of Time drop Chaos / White scrolls in order to end the hyper-inflation of their prices which gives every player an equal chance of scrolling good equips. Items such as PGC, Skis, Stormcasters, FS will inflate in value which is exactly what we want and is good for the server.

John, I want nothing more than to increase the long-term longevity of the server. Why else would I post essays relating to this topic?

A server shouldn't be where only the rich 5% can chaos / white scroll and leeching is REQUIRED for bossing and is dominantly prevalent. And playing solo is advantageous to playing with others. This kind of BS.

Who's with me? Let's go! Think about this GMs. Stay calm. This is a Nostalgic server. Do what is best for everybody.

 

EDIT: sigh.. i feel like a fool wasting my time responding to someone who doesn't wanna understand.

Feel free to delete this off-topic post.

 

You keep restating the exact same thing over and over even though I and many others have told you over and over that you're just wrong. So I'm basically done restating myself.

And that line was the last thing I had to read.

I think at this point we've made it very clear as staff that this suggestion will not be implemented. Not only is it highly unappealing at first glance, but not one person has come forward with any reasonable positive to this suggestion. I won't close this thread, in case someone out there exists that had something reasonable to say but it got lost in the talk about leech (where that came from I still don't fully understand, since they're two completely separate issues).

 

what the hell. Calling mages "good at bossing" nearly invalidates your whole post, but I'll overlook that since I've already seen that exact point discussed elsewhere on the forum anyway.

Leeching is not required for anything, period. Stop saying this. Just because you think it is, it doesn't mean it is. Same for your made up statistic of 5% of people being able to chaos/white. I may play a bishop, but all my money is made through farming and APQ, and honestly I make enough to chaos if I didn't waste said money. You're also forgetting the option of foregoing chaos scrolls entirely, and just saving up to buy a chaosed item.


Holy shit did you just call chaos/ws hyperinflated? 300m is not that bad, but I wouldn't even be pointing this out if not for

"Items such as PGC, Skis, Stormcasters, FS will inflate in value which is exactly what we want and is good for the server"

Three of those are worth more than chaoses already and you want those to go up? Now THAT would be hyperinflation. S>BVM 500m, 4 att PGC 750m


What else... oh yeah, I don't like how you separated people into two groups: Bishops and average players. Leech is not the only way to make money, and playing a mage is also not the only way to make money. Leeching brings in tons of dolla bills fo sho, but I can't stand it so I just farm, and it works. If I put in the effort to learn the market or how to make money from scrolling*, I could make a lot more. Again, more effort = more reward.

*One does not simply make money from scrolling. You need to know what you're doing. If you go around throwing chaoses on things you'll go broke in a hurry unless Lady Luck has pity on your foolish soul.


As for your proposals... I would only agree with #1 if we got LHC. Even then I still don't like it because it screws over people trying to make extreme washed characters with base int. Really, that proposal just highlights your bias against leech, which I still don't agree is as much as a problem as you say it is. It seems that you want to be able to just hop in skeles or ToT and immediately find a party of people to bro it up with. I couldn't do that even back in the day on GMS. Still though, I'd be soloing in ToT on my NL right now if I didn't need more money for books and resets.

And #2, I think enough people in this thread have given their reasoning why chaos and white scrolls don't need to be more common. You don't even NEED a perfect weapon or 10+ attack cape/shoes. I'd like a perfect weapon too, but I accept that getting one means I need to grind out ~30b somehow. But that's okay, because it's not necessary, and I have plenty of cheaper places to improve my gear. You have to set reasonable standards.


You're so full of personal bias and assumptions that I can hardly take you seriously.

 

Restating it explicitly; if anyone talks about leech in this thread one more time, I will warn you, and I will delete your post.

Leech has nothing to do with this thread. End of story.

 

One thing:

" white/ chaos scrolls are hyper inflated due to the selling of leech"

This has nothing to do with leeching and everything to do with influx of raw meso, an entirely different issue. That's all I'll say since in the middle of typing this I noticed the above warning being posted.

 

Yes, my super long post about leech was deleted. Anyways,

The issue right now is that a lot of new players are gaching everyday hoping to get a W/S or Chaos and then using the mesos to buy leech instead of grinding.My guild does this. I did this. Many people do this.

When you make w/s and chaos scrolls droppable, you give players motivation to grind and farm their own. It also levels the playing field because it creates better items for the server where a new player can compete with the seasoned pros.

 

If a *NEW* player can compete with the "seasoned pros"... doesn't that mean there's something wrong? Just my 2 cents.

 

Yeah because it divides us and isolates the community into those who have godly items and those who don't. Aram I want to be able to party / compete for damage with you and at this rate Chaos / white scrolls are going for. It would be impossible.

 

And that's perfectly fair. You shouldn't be able to compete with someone who has put in far more time and resources than you.

It is far from impossible to get to that point anyway. You just have to be willing to put the time in.

 

That's fair but I want what is best for the community. If implementing this change encourages newer players to play and keep playing, wouldn't that be a good thing?

It would not be impossible, but it would require me to restart my entire character, make a bishop, and farm solo for a very long time. That is not appealing at all to most people.

 

Servers like you're describing already exist, they just aren't popular. It turns out MMO's are boring when you don't actually have a sense of progression and everyone can do the same thing. There's a reason why the most popular servers are low rate servers that reward those who are dedicated and put in time and resouces in their character. It gives a sense of attachment, pride, and playing with people who have similar dedication is the main reason why MapleStory communities tend be so tight knit.

You also don't have to restart your character. Start bossing/apqing/merching. It's easy to start amassing funds, all it takes is time. Time you don't want to put in, time you use complaining about Bishops and Leech and feeling sorry for yourself for not partaking in it instead of actually playing the game.

 

I'm not at all a fan of gear progression and the reliance on ws+chaos in this game, but it's not something that can be changed at this point. Sure, you will eventually "make it" by putting the hours in, but it's so incredibly fucked up that a little lucky scrolling streak can put you ahead of someone who has been playing for years. I don't think Nexon ever intended them to be relied on (I only saw a few of each for quite a long time when they were released).

I played GMS and other servers where chaos dropped from mobs and it didn't seem to have a drastic effect on anything. 4th job mages would still be better off at gobies/selling leech than raping zombie mushrooms for them. All it does is put a few more into circulation when the occasional lucky noob finds one.

An increasingly serious problem in royals is the fact that so many people with perfect weapons (who have no use for ws) horde them to use as currency. People (like me) who have no interest in watching market trends and would rather play the game suffer because we hit the point where merching is literally the only way to progress.

Adding either or both as dojo rewards could work as a way to give bossing characters a reliable method of farming something that will always have value, since skill books have tanked and HT is becoming increasingly unreliable since it's impossible to find manons.

Rambling...

 

If we copied the gMS tables Chaos would drop from bonefish. And Zak. And Pap. All of these are killed pretty frequently by high level players. Low Level players would have to go out of their way to find them.

gMS didn't have every player above 50 using Gachapon on top of them dropping from monsters and they still deflated pretty hard.

 

I am suggesting things that will enhance the server for lower level players making the progression more fun. That is the point of this entire thread. I want players like myself to have more options in regards to meso making / grinding. I mean right now the main activity for this server is leeching for both meso gain and exp. (aside from bossing ofc) That's how it is.

It is possible to change the drop tables from GMS though right?

Good points. They support my earlier point about how WS and Chaos/S are hyper-inflated. A person on a luck spree can get extremely rich and out earn like an entire year of playing. The items are then horded. Extremely unfair for people like Goofy.