Ummm not sure if there's a hint of sarcasm in there But anyway i feel archer is good as it is, maybe MM needs a little more buff to be viable as well
I've tossed my old or shiny two cents coins all over the forums about marksmen, I have two feedback threads about them that I should update or combine, as well as a general warrior feedback, and another general feedback thread I've made, and dropped lots of random bits of feedback everywhere because I love the game and love creative, fair problem solving. With that said, here's my currently evolved take on how to buff marksmen On snipe: simply give snipe a temporary autotarget effect. Give it a low duration as to necessitate snipe recasts (5-8 seconds). This doesn't increase damage or attack, and focused strafes inside this small autotarget buff will increase dpm by virtue of focusing on a single target instead of the first target in range On blind/avoidability: If marksmen simply had higher avoidability, their dpm would buff a nice margin in a handful of places where it's most crucial. Getting knocked off and or repositioning loses dpm. Even warriors with the most hp in the game, get a 15% chance to avoid all damage with guardian, plus 90% stance Giving marksmen a passive avoid boost, or % to avoid all attacks, or making blind work on bosses (this is my personal preference because it would stop se mule abuse because blind must be cast on the user and proc on the target and be recast when it's over to have any effect). Also as an aside I think this skill should give MM a % chance to avoid the darkness status because hey, marksmen, but that's just who I am.
Here's something I noticed during my last few Zak runs. Snipe has a nasty habit of targeting the mobs spawned by Zak during the later stages; this adds up to a large amount of damage that MM won't be doing to the boss in the long run. As a solution, the Snipe skill should add a bullseye effect to whatever it hits. This was mentioned a year ago on another thread and I'm surprised that no one commented on it. edit: oh hi there cooler
Sniped ya And I do appreciate the call back ❤️ Going to throw an edit in here: if avoid boost or avoid % is considered, either pack it into bow expert/marksmanship, a seperate 10 point (camouflage) skill that requires lvl 30 hurricane/snipe and lvl 30 sharp eyes, or pack it into blind/hamstring (preferred implementation) so it can only really be embraced by mains and not mules. Having final attack work with strafe to add an additional line at whatever lvl % FA is, only during the snipe autotarget buff (aka only on bosses) could be a decent buff. Autotarget effect could put a crosshair icon above a boss on your screen for visualization On pierce: Just barely lowering charge time on pierce, making it fire in the air, low or no minimum range and not losing the entire charge if hit when releasing would also help it being functional As for BM, remove the infinite hurricane spam, and tweak either the krex platform or his attack range so archers can't afk there. I've seen some "well-behaved children" forget they were bossing or go totally afk because of this unsporting exploit, they shouldn't be able to both avoid all damage in half a boss fight, and only have to press two buttons every 4 minutes
Hey @Cooler I love your energy but I think bullseye should remain a corsair skill, dark sight should remain a thief skill, and that blind, hamstring, and final attack should remain as useless as they were in GMS. HOWEVER MM QoL could be improved if good clean Nescheres were farmed with the frequency of good clean Nisrocks and the MPC wasn't so rare OR another source of viable endgame xbows was introduced (those updated CWK xbows? NOT viable ATM but love the effort, staff)
I'm 100% against useless throwaway skills and linear meta. And the bullseye effect I suggest only last as long as the recast time of snipes, 5-8 seconds is the times I've said. Sairs bullseye lasts until the monster dies or you cast on something else. It's to promote dynamic skill usage as well as focusing strafes for higher dpm without damage increase, and it goes away quickly, it's not fair to say it's the same as bullseye, and it doesn't increase damage of all attacks like bullseye does either, only focuses strafes and snipes for a really small duration, but for the large career of mm you use snipe as much as you can in bosses, so it's an established synergy with a marksmanish effect that focuses dpm but not by a huge margin I didn't mention darksight I think you mean shadow shifter, which actual warriors get with gaurdian, only 5% less than NL at max lvl, it's not at all unrealistic. I'm trying to approach the class without talking about damage. Snipe and strafe do a lot of damage, mm just suffer from internal support and very low hp. Just buffing their avoid without raising any attack would be all they need to boost the class without doing anything to the meta. If you were to compare mm and sair, both with 30k hp and zero avoid in zak being ragdolled nonstop, summons allover, sair would destroy mm, even with the ship cooldown (and remember ship has zero minimum range, and farther range than snipers) and getting ragdolled equally. I say this because MM have way more to gain with some extra avoid than sairs, who are a balls to the wall bullet hell style class play as it is
Banking on once a day maybe getting the faster speed xbow, which is rare af, and then getting one that is good enough to scroll, and then being lucky enough or deeply funded enough to get it to replace your dsc is not what the class needs that's a bizarely convoluted set of conditions to supplement a class when si exists. You could make a si mule instead Even just having final attack add a fifth or splash line after strafe, even at lower than 60%, even 10-20% chance to proc and with a higher crit/100% crit, would go far (pre-req: max FA and mmship) Having the next follow up strafe 100% crit all lines after snipe, etc... The strafe/snipe dynamic is what mostly needs to be improved, because for some, snipe is entirely obsolete at some point, but for everyone, both skills are vital and used constantly. Buccs can do over 199k twice and then some with a single key they can spam without cooldown... And strafe/snipe is our demo/barrage A list of some strafe/snipe and survivability improvements to just consider or form other ideas from: -Snipe autotargeting very briefly to focus strafe until your next snipe is ready (this only affects bosses since only bosses can take multiple snipes) -strafe getting a lowered chance but worthy final attack proc (high crit rate, ignore w.def, 140%, etc) -snipe increasing or maxing crit rate for one follow up strafe -snipe allowing one follow up strafe to ignore w.def -strafe dealing slightly more damage/critrate to blinded monsters (and bosses in a dream world~) -blind working on bosses only at max level and at reduced rate. Lots of ppl dunno, but blind has to be cast as a buff, then it only has a chance to affect a mob, only last 15 seconds at max level, and reduces monsters base accuracy by 30% at max so it's quite conditional. Even if it worked at 1/3 the rate (or lvl10 stats) on bosses, and only affected the accuracy loss vs the mm, the avoid boost of -10% of the bosses base accuracy would be helpful, and make this skill not abjectly useless as it currently is. -marksmanship adding passive avoid (+150 or more) or a 10 point 5-10% camouflage/shifter skill that requires max se, snipe, mmship or some combo so mules can't abuse it -improved dex formula for avoid for xbowmen-mm (or all archers) -mortal blow increases crit rate, critical damage% + ignore def of all attacks on bosses at 15% or less hp (prerequisite: max mortal blow, max se, max markmanship). Cool to see this skill get some love and mm speed up in damage near the end of a battle would be an interesting and hype dynamic for parties/solo -marksmanship adds some % chance to ignore w.def -natural miss from avoid boosts crit rate ("counter"), could be packed into mmship, or focus -marksmanship does higher crit dmg farther away from target, and ignores or reduces darkness chance -focus gets a passive avoid boost of +60 each job adv (2nd, 3rd, 4th) -snipe has a 5-15% chance to boost attack speed for short duration 5-10s, but drains significantly more mp from all attacks during -mmship giving all attacks low % chance to ignore w.cancel -able to right-click/cancel summon Or any ideas that can boost the synergy of strafe/snipe combo to somehow improve one another without straight boosting strafe damage or w.att in marksmanship Folks always say lots of little changes are too much and too unnecessary, but have have no big singular repair input either that gets attention, or that wouldn't clearly break the class, and mm to me just suffer from some internal support to boost them, not lacking of damage. Imo lots of small improvements and qol do much more for the class overall than just some dmg increase, which is pointless to a lot of ppl anyway because of funding
The only change I would love to see for MM would be reverting snipe to hit through weapon cancel. Otherwise I think they're fine. Not every class is meant to excel at bossing (dps-wise) and they already have one of the most essential skills (SE). In my opinion MM are perfect all-rounder, you can go bossing (SE) but they're also fun grinding (way more than BM- got both classes). The combination of different skills when grinding (freezing, killing mobs with piercing arrow, sniping) compensates the (not that) poor dps when bossing.
Spoiler: Rant I'm desperately trying to not talk about the snipe nerf because I almost rage quit entirely and did ultimately stop playing my mm, that I invested a lot of time in because of it. No "technical oversight" (snipe piercing w.cancel was always intentional, and pallies HH and ninja ambush--which the top tier and most popular class by far, and shads get--still hit through w.cancel) justifies nerfing snipe but keeping hp washing as well, and it just handicapped the least popular and one of the lowest ranking attackers during an actual moment they could help the party. Not convinced there isn't some other reason not given to go out of the way to nerf it Old snipe and blind working on bosses is literally all I want deep down
@Cooler am astounded you think that increasing the availability of clean endgame crossbows is 'bizarrely convoluted' given your suggestions to add new 4th job skills like shadow shifter and bullseye and quirky gimmicks like +15% att speed for x seconds after snipe proc and avoiding mob wep def. with a % success rate, misses increasing crit rate, distance dependent damage formulas, etc. Maybe we have different points of reference for what a 'bizarre' change is. I appreciate your desire to improve mm QoL but disagree with all of your suggestions except snipe hitting through wep. cancel (which was a feature of snipe and not a bug). If you want to play a class heavy on % chance activation skills with avoidability as a core stat, consider making a shadower and not an archer.
Astounded, really? That's a crazy bunch of hoops to send a player through when you can just improve core mechanics or invite a bucc to the party. I'm throwing a lot of ideas out there because I'm against flat dmg increase, extra avoid isn't a gimmick, warriors literally get 15% shifter lol, they're the tanks. Not sure why you're seeing it as so strange. I'm also not trying to repeat anyone elses suggestions, unless I especially agree with them, because that's also not new feedback Also said right up front these are just a lot of possible ideas and concepts to play with, or new angles to look at, I didn't say I want all these changes I'll be more clear about the night ravens eye, one, there's not a single one in market, you can only cwk once a day per char, two, it's moving the goal posts on the players end, putting the class improvement on them by giving them an extremely rare and conditional weapon to supplement them, as well as a 200 hp bonus on it to really salt the wound, especially if you already sank mesos or have a great dsc, you're losing out because you're not using the si packed new xbow with 200 extra hp under the hood. why shift the slack of the class even more into the players lap for the shortcomings of the class rather than hear the basic complaints of the community. Even a 4 sec snipe cooldown would help them. Compared to everyone else and all the conditions and hp restraints, mm naturally fall behind unless they max snipe first, but then they'll get lapped again fast in their 140s. I have a 190 shad, 165 sair and mm, it's why I said early on, simply giving mm extra avoid or a brief autotarget that still requires normal gameplay to recast is all they would need to pull ahead into their own position of more stable, slightly raised dpm w/o any att
Cooler let me clarify my suggestions for the CWK xbows. My suggested stats wouldn't make them any better than any xbow you can get right now. A perfect MPC > night raven's crow and a perfect Neschere > other cwk xbow. They CWK xbows are tough and rare to get, but that's why the clean att stats would be competitive with a near-perfect clean MPC/Neschere. A perfect DSC should always be the best weapon, agreed, and it does have the highest damage potential now given the right conditions. MPC gives +150 hp, the Night Raven's eye would be +50 HP boost, whatever, it doesn't really matter now with the hp quests. If you predict you'll be partying with SI you go for the DSC/Neschere for the extra damage. If you don't think you'll be playing with SI mule or your parties don't involve a bucc, like a usual krex or zak or grinding it out at ToT solo go for the MPC/Night Raven and dump more ap into dex. ALso, I'm not saying I want increased clean endgame xbow availability instead of mm changes. I'm happy to have both but the only changes i'd be happy with for the class would be limited to damage boosts proabbly in the form of 4th job crossbow mastery, snipe hitting through weapon cancel, and piercing arrow not cancelling when hitting a mob
Forgot a qol Let each strafe arrow proc kb so mm can hunt bf. They have absolutely no bf game and have to use pkb to attempt. All other range classes can body bf and fly away doing it
You can use your puppet. Or pkb = puppet? BM is the same by the way. I just use my puppet to fight BF.
But bm are kb bf 8x a second, strafe is much slower, plus the iframes will destroy you, where bm catch him immediately and repin and yes you have to use puppet to lure him to a corner and pray you get an ok roll of attacks for a few seconds before the iframes break him out, it's not worth the effort.
The iFrames are very bad for a BM as well since its DPS is extremely low there. Better deal damage in huge chunks not in many little portions. Arrows only kb BF if u deal 20k+ per arrow frequently, which means you will not kb until you reach higher levels. It is almost impossible for a BM to pin BF even if you deal 20k+ arrows frequently. I am over level 190 now as a BM with decent range (6.8) and I still cannot kb BF reliably. With the puppet, pinning becomes possible. Also, once it is in the corner, you got not a few seconds, but instead up to 5 min of constant free fire. It is perfectly possible to keep BF pinned by the help of that puppet for 100% of the time. The iFrames do not help BF to break out, only at the time when you recast SE (hence puppet). If you do not think it is worth the effort, thats fine and nobody minds. BF is made for melee classes anyway. All I am saying is that your assumptions are not correct there. Edit: For instance, my bucc at lvl 165 with much lesser gear kills BF faster than my bm with good gear at lvl 194
Only need to deal 2k damage to pin Bigfoot, I believe it also shouldn't be a problem for low level 4th jobs. I can use MW which takes longer to buff (without repinning) If you're saying it's made for melee because they can tank it, but all classes shouldn't tank it if you attack appropriately.
How come I cannot pin it then? Do your arrows kb if you hit less than 20k? Maybe my char is bugged then ... I kill BF every now and then and up to date my BM cannot reliably pin it.
What about giving puppet 10-20% shifter effect for the puppet, not the player, with marksmanship, and boost the mp cost significantly? Or 10~15% shifter effect when puppet is active with mms Could make puppet have some use defensively past 3rd
