Hello all, A question was brought up in the last Q&A regarding the current state of CWKPQ, and the fact that most players run this PQ with 3-5 active players with mules to fill the remaining entry requirements, and whether we should reduce the entry requirements to only needing one of each class rather than two. Since the PQ is originally intended to be done with a 10-30 players as more of an expedition style raid compared to regular PQ's that require just a single party, I would like to propose some alternative adjustments that could be made so that the requirement of 2 of each class makes more sense. Understandably, the main reasons why players prefer to do this CWKPQ with 3-5 active players is due to both the difficulty of the expedition and the amount of rewards given. The most obvious changes in my opinion would be a lower time limit for the expedition, combined with a larger bonus room with more chests. This could compel players to bring larger parties to reap all the available rewards, as well as for the extra damage that may be required to complete the expedition within the reduced time limit. These changes would at the same time still allow strong players to do the expedition with fewer characters if they wish to, however with the downside that that not all chests in the bonus room would be able to be opened. This thread is open to hear your thoughts on the current state of CWKPQ, any ideas you may have to help improve the expedition, and to provide your opinion on the above suggested change. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!
I heavily prefer the option to make cwkpq harder and JUSTIFY 10 players over just making it require 1 of each class to start. It will be a good step forward to promote more party play and inclusivity in a meta that actively discourages it.
Frankly the requirement of 2 of each class at this point is just a mere nuisance and can be easily bypassed (mules, buying signs etc.). So for a start, I suggest keeping the pq as it is and just remove that requirement all together.
Keeping it status quo but removing the sign requirements: + Can bring along newer players more easily - Not much change to those who trio/quad other than increased QoL Keeping sign requirements, decrease time limit, increase bonuses: - For parties that aren't super OP, forced to bring more people along, harder to run - For pros who trio/quad, I don't foresee much difference except more benefits as they could sell more boxes to bon buyers In my opinion, changing it to 1 of each class lowers the barrier of entry for newer players to run this party quest, and that is a huge plus. I think lowering the time limit and increasing the bonus only hurts the newer players.
dont do anything to bonus else just remove the tags ˆ on a serious note, the obvious reasons why people not running a bigger party even if theres a juicier reward is : player base too small, takes forever to even R> 5man AND its so hard to manage multi-party in the current version > implement expedition system
i don't think larger room with more chest will make any downside or force to bring more players if boss time is cut at CWK (players are allready capable to break 8-10box alone with ease) the rewards are allready poor and aged more or less (and the godly stats items are way to low to get/cheaper to buy then farm) example: tao of shadow on the higher end of rare drops to get in (trio/quad) and the price is 20m+-... ~ unless you are that lucky 0.00001 player that gets them often but i've done enough or more then 500 CWK runs and i haven't see 9 or 10att clean BFC or godly spec twice and their value is allready dirt cheap compared to all the dry runs or fail runs because 1 of the mule dc and can't do room in my opinion CWK should stay same as it is both for nostalgic reasons and for party quest-team play otherwise the rewards (MoN & BoN) will get even more rushed and expoloited and lose their desire "value" add party search/finder also if there is possability to slightly tweakthe godly system/bonus stage drops along side harder to kill due to short time then is fine for example: each player (not mule) to add +% drop/higher stat chance at BoN/MoN or if player leaves x amount of box can't break/gets removed ofcourse there will be attemptes to abuse the system and it will need some further tuneing anyhow am for makeing it harder with more players and better rewards over 1 of ea to enter "harder"boss and with better or same rewards
my only and probably ignorable feedback is... Please god Matthew make archer room easy or less hard, because is a shit be the only class that take so long to finish a room, when all other class can rest while I'm suffering. Also hope someone say something about bonus drops and ask for something new.
CWK Normal Mode & CWK Hard mode Nostalgia aside I do think hard mode is a zone where Royals can experiment very soon enough. Larger bonus room with more chests.. I don't think this will be a good idea, prices of the rewards are almost touching the ground and its really not that hard to multiclient teleport mules to clear the boxes. if this change is implemented, for some reason it attracts the newer players to run 10man CWKPQ to reap the rewards, or veterans to continue running as it is with just more hitter mules & looter, Supply will significantly outsoar the demand in a week or two. At this point its already not profitable, how bad can it get. 3wa BFC = Goldensoul cape hype @Cooler maybe you wanna throw in some PQ adjustment feedbacks to this one?
Make it harder and kill off trio/quad cwkpq by making the bonus room bigger with more chests and if possible make the bossing stage more difficult (more hp on bosses / reduced timer). CWKPQ is hard to recruit for not because there's not enough players but because the rewards are so awful if you're high level and have a good MoN already / don't want to use a MoN. Bonus is high attack cape or bust as @Jooon mentioned and the xp is pretty bad. I personally don't do cwkpq because the rewards are not worth my time over doing basically anything else in game. Maybe the loot in bonus also needs a change / might need additional things to craft from the taos. Edit: CS/WS from chests maybe? at some very low rate at staff's discretion. tl;dr: Make the PQ worth doing and people will naturally join 5-10 player groups even with increased difficulty.
I think i have a thread somewhere(poorly redacted) about how CWKPQ is actually the best content ingame in terms of balance and effort-reward meter. iirc several opinions there were kind of against but most of them were based on personal experiences and not a really neutral analysis. But several changes have been done since then and as always changed things even when they seen unrelated( as farm nerf affected HT and auf circlet problem for example, maybe something to talk soontm) so, to make a TLDR. CWKPQ is: Great exp wise.- Yes is not worth at higher lvl rate, but its suposed to be a lvl 125-150 content, at this rate of lvls , is one of the best exp sources. Great way to promote class balance.- No need to explain how almost every class has relevance here(sorry @CreamGoddess but hard archer room is what prevents SE mules from being top tier there and promote actual archers in a way), even today some players are discovering how different combination of jobs works wonderfully as i explained in how good is bucc + shad there months(or years alrd?!) and now several ppl are realizing due to LHC or HT tests with bucc multitarget dmg.... Rewards matter.- This PQ still has the best necklace in the server, and the bonus room, despite is still not that bad, this is where things started to change..... Now, i have to admit even myself im not doing CWKPQ anymore, and having free time is pretty low in my priorities in this game now, but i cant label it as bad just bcs i dont want to do it anymore, theres a difference between personal experience and actual reality. Another thing that several ppl need to understand is that if you need another person to do something THAT IS ALREADY PARTY PLAY. Duos-trios-quads IS SOCIAL PLAYING. This is a small server, even being the biggest P. server, the whole active MS(including official servers) active community is less than 10% of active Pokemon community for example, so any move that forces u to have a big group of ppl to do something could be a bad change(even if the idea its not bad per se tbh).-This is why even with how good LHC is(and it is, pretty OP) the popularity of that content has been slowly reduced lately, it is pretty good, but its not easy to find 6 ppl with enough time, at the same time to do it, making a 1hr run to take close to 2 hours to get it done for example(thats what kind of balances it). Also increase the amount of boxes(and by consecuence the amount of current cwkpq goods) is going to be really counter productive in mid- long term. This does not mean everything is perfect with this PQ rn, as i mentioned royals has changed and that affected CWKPQ aswell. So my proposed changes are: 1.-Could change the entry requeriments from 2 of each job to 1 of each as proposed on Q&A... This change will have both positive and negative impacts, so im not too shure how good this would be. 2.-Delete stg 1.- Ye, ye, nostalgia..., comon, this stag made sense back in early days, nowdays is just a time killer, no point for this stg anymore IMO. 3.- Revamp the bonus drop pool.- Everyone notes that bfcs, specs, etc losed value due to the amount of them in market vs the amount of ppls buying them, but i think that bigger lose there was the taos, from the recharge price increase to the introduction of MTKs those drastically reduced the price, so we need a "flat 80-100m" drop, beacuse all the other items are dependant on RNG to be worthwhile... My suggestion.- A.- Relate it somehow with item crafts. I mean it would be perfect that those can be even more related, everyone knows that craft arclancers for example are a pain in the @ss, im not an expert here, so any idea from @Incentv - @CreamGoddess , about how to relate bonus to make craft easier would be great(make bonus better- increase the popularity of craft, win-win) B.- Add some sort of untradeable "coupons" .- 5-10 coupons to be exchanged for a cs or ws( not like ws piece A-B-C, bcs i can already see ppl raging cs having 10A-10b but none Cs for example) this would be the "flat 80-100m" that will replace what TAOS used to mean. 4.- As Joon mentioned.- A hard mode. Could be either an slighty modified, but same PQ with adjusted difficultity-exp adjussted to be lvl 175+. Or maybe related with KoC?( perhaps this would surpass current developers posibilietes/delay autoban) . I just would love to see KoC as bosses....but any higher lvl version of this PQ would be awesome.....
I think the archer room shouldnt be changed. Takes at most 5-6mins to clear for me and I use Soul Arrow for that room. Any changes to that room and you'll see no archers being invited to cwk at all. What I do wanna ask about is which server did Royals follow in having the Pirate boss for cwk as I dont recall Maplesea having the pirate boss for cwk. Correct me if im wrong, I lived in fm for too long. Maybe GMS had this back in the day?
if you buff/nerf it in ANY way shape or form and try to force a playstyle, it WILL be min-maxed and probably benefit stronger players in the end. Just removing the extra signs from 10 to 5 is fine. I don't think any other change is needed. QoL changes should be priority #1 and any other outside-the-box stuff more often than not doesn't meet the intended solution for the change. Another simple and efficient solution if you intend to have more people participate is to allow one IP per PQ, like in event bosses. But then people with multiple PC/Connections will still run mules. Long story short, Muling breaks almost every way the game is intended to be played and really can only be balanced if removed. But it is what it is.
Add untradeable CS pieces A B C like WS pieces from NT to bonus boxes because recruiting/organizing/running a CWK is hella chaotic 8^)
Agree with Joon. To make cwkpq more beginner friendly without affecting the economy, its time to experiment with easy/hard mode. Easy mode will have bosses with lower hp, and drops MoN fragments(?) so newer players will be able to craft one after a few runs instead of potentially getting a bad one after spending 90m. Bonus room with fewer boxes, but the same drops, so they can still earn money, but wouldn't affect the economy as much as the other solutions. Running b2b cwkpqs take around 1.5 hours, so most older players don't run it due to the return on time invested being pretty bad and reliant on RNG. I'm sure most players wouldn't mind helping new players run an easier version of CWK if it doesnt require too much time, similar to Zak. Increasing number of boxes will ruin clean BFC, FKC, CHC prices, making CWK even less worth to run, or result in people selling boxes to earn more money, which probably isn't the intention of this thread.
Bosses get their own rooms. Only the player that shares a class with that boss can enter the room. The boss drops an item. The more items turned in at the end, the better the reward.
The current CWKPQ is good as it is, maybe just reduce pirate boss’s attacking range that would be perfect. Edit: I feel the drop rate of 5 wa BFC or the BFC itself has been heavily reduced, I have been solo 1 months plus daily, only dropped 1x 5wa BFC, which I still don’t believe is the cause of luck.I would rather sell my bonus slot for 80m than participating myself.
Thanks for picking up my question @Matt! Shortening the timer and increasing the number of boxes can be very tricky. If you make it too hard and too many boxes it will result in being even harder for our newcomers to run the PQ because they need to find even more people to run with and the recruiting process was my main concern when I brought this up. If you don’t make it significantly harder tho it won’t affect the endgame playstyle here at all. If any it would be another Apple or Apple instead of stopper or w.e for some. As @Jooon and @bibz mentioned you can even Mule the bon or sell some boxes as a service. I will just repeat my point here. Reducing the barrier entry to 1 each job will be a good QoL Update and sometimes that’s all it needs. If you do feel the PQ lacks some rewards I would add in a CS as another jackpot item. Adding CS frags here seems off to me. In Neo Tokyo it connects the content as you have to fight 3-4 of the 6 bosses in order to craft a ws while the other 2 are worth to run on their own. Adding cs pieces to cwk brings nothing to the table than frustration when you have e.g. 5 A and 6 B but lack the C piece as @Relmy said. Please don’t bring this system here just because it works in other parts of the game. You could also increase the droprate of gelts not to the point where it replaces APQ but those are always nice drops that don’t affect the market much.
HOT TAKE: instead of running trio/quad bon. Run 6-12 man cwk. Divy up the rewards with the group of people. Reduced burnout from faster runs, higher excitement for getting good stuff. Could even form some sort of group. Maybe even get a little name that dangles under your IGN for your group. Have daily runs and enjoy instead of mulestory to maximize profit. Fun with friends > meso
Buff the EXP of the bosses so that CWK can be run as a viable grinding raid (like LHC) for lv 135-160. This will encourage more people to run CWK since the EXP rewards + BON and MON are great incentives. Right now, the exp of bosses are horrible which contribute to muling. With the party EXP Buff, it could be very rewarding running as a 6-players active PQ.
