In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

Swag · Jan 23, 2025 at 9:25 PM

Cooler said: ↑

here's my hero input--

hero's don't need enrage. best to scrap the skill entirely. if it's decided that the class needs a damage boost, enrage or w.att is not the method. this server doesn't need more weapon attack, it's fully addicted and on att potions at all times, adding more will not help at all, and it is just a backdoor way for mules to boost w.att on top of pots, which is really what most people are secretly suggesting, and that needs to be noted. it's not what the hero class needs, it's what other attacker classes want.

i have a handful of ideas that i really want people to consider and think about and play with creatively to see what other ways the hero class feels like a party member instead of just deleting HP from a boss.

1) ARMOR CRASH: make armor crash exclusive to crusader/hero. priest/bs can no longer dispel armor crash.
-lower the duration and range of AC, and make it cost 1-3 orbs, depending on level. this removes the mule/exploitability of armor crash from mules. also, make AC only apply if the crusader/hero is the same level as the monster. this makes it an active party skill instead of just a one button mule skill. this is healthier and better for teamwork, and better for the class identity and active team play. these are important factors to consider

2) SHATTER: an alternative to enrage is a skill that crashes damage reflect. there's lots of ways to implement this as an ability. a spell, or it can use combo attacks to shatter the damage reflect, which is my suggestion. but a crash type skill that costs all orbs is another.

3) STAGGER: if damage reflect crash/shatter isn't considered, which it really should, as it's an open niche that no class can do atm, then i think another fantastic idea for hero, is the ability to stop, or lower, the amount a boss HEALS. this has high potential to increase runs over time, and it also helps the entire party, which is heroic in a way. staunching/stopping boss heal will significantly increase a run time overall. i also recommend this be cast via combos. this and shatter gives combos practical boss utility. this is also an altogether niche angle which also indirectly boosts hero party run times.

3) BLOCK: this is a different route for hero, but one that every single party member will love. it's essentially a 4th job warrior version of guardian, but for party members. has a chance to block an attack that another party member receives, or, instead of blocking damage, gives a random party member a stance effect from an incoming attack, at a certain proc rate. it could cost an orb each block, but this would be huge for any party member, especially ones that reposition often, or in maps like HT where falling often costs lots of time. also a very apropos hero skill. no this is not direct DPM, but it helps the team greatly on time. requires orbs to use, so it's not exploitable.

4) DUEL: instead of enrage, just give the hero a short buff. ignore w.def, raise minimum damage to 100%, ignore damage reflect, for a short burst of time, and causes all mobs and boss to autotarget the hero during. costs all orbs. short effect, with a CD.

5) COMBOS: allow combo damage to break cap/ignore damage reflect/ignore cancel (with a damage reduction)

(also i personally believe that coma/panic *animations* were accidentally switched when implemented. the coma animation is an eye, whereas panic is the skill that was supposed to induce darkness. the current panic animation looks more akin to a stunning skill. i believe the animations of these skills should be switched to reflect what their skills do. i also believe panic should inflict darkness as it was originally intended in the skill description, and afflict bosses at 20% at max, but not stack with blind. this alone gives hero a fantastic edge in a melee party. remember the acronym: "MISS" (Mightier In contrast to Stance, Shifter)

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I like reading your comments, this seems really thought out and interesting. As a new low level Hero myself, I already see how many dead areas of the class there are. And I'm all for anything that discourages muling. I would vote in favor of continuing the conversation on these ideas, except for #4. I'm getting the client/programming limitations vibe with that one, but who knows. I'll have to remind myself to follow up on this once I'm at a higher level and can properly comment on the others with some more bossing experience under my belt.

I'll add, in terms of what I've thought about as far as rage goes, keeping in mind the value/programming burden ratio that is ever so important these days, what if we simply go ahead and keep it the way it is, add the stacking effect, but make its effect (+ATT) dependent on how much added bonus attack is coming from other ATT buff sources? Just typing it into chatgpt to visualize the general idea:

As attack from other bonus sources increases, Apples, stoppers, ciders, etc., the effect of Rage is reduced by some exponential factor. So, if the party is on an appo run, rage is hardly worth muling for (although it would no longer be detrimental to accidentally cast lol, and maybe adds a slight buff). A stopper run? Maybe worth, but nothing crazy. Gizer run? probably worth. etc.. My thinking is that it can at least keep the OG mechanic in the game to some useful degree..

Cooler · Jan 23, 2025 at 10:37 PM

Swag said: ↑

I like reading your comments, this seems really thought out and interesting. As a new low level Hero myself, I already see how many dead areas of the class there are. And I'm all for anything that discourages muling. I would vote in favor of continuing the conversation on these ideas, except for #4. I'm getting the client/programming limitations vibe with that one, but who knows. I'll have to remind myself to follow up on this once I'm at a higher level and can properly comment on the others with some more bossing experience under my belt.

I'll add, in terms of what I've thought about as far as rage goes, keeping in mind the value/programming burden ratio that is ever so important these days, what if we simply go ahead and keep it the way it is, add the stacking effect, but make its effect (+ATT) dependent on how much added bonus attack is coming from other ATT buff sources? Just typing it into chatgpt to visualize the general idea:

As attack from other bonus sources increases, Apples, stoppers, ciders, etc., the effect of Rage is reduced by some exponential factor. So, if the party is on an appo run, rage is hardly worth muling for (although it would no longer be detrimental to accidentally cast lol, and maybe adds a slight buff). A stopper run? Maybe worth, but nothing crazy. Gizer run? probably worth. etc.. My thinking is that it can at least keep the OG mechanic in the game to some useful degree..
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Tyvm I appreciate you seeing the feedback as concepts rather than direct "do this" input.

I think devs just need to completely move away from enrage/w.att, similar to my concentrate feedback for bowmasters. It's does nothing for the class or party in the att pot mandatory meta, and there's much more interesting and valuable ways to approach hero, which is where I'm coming from

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In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

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