In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

Buff pickpocket skill meso rate / and unable looting

 

Are heroes getting any buff soon?

 

The only change you need to make to stop the bucc + shad combo being so strong (broken) is to simply make Smokescreen no longer able to be Timeleaped. Then buff the other classes as required.

 

Adjust Archers' "Critical Shot" (currently 40% rate) to trigger with at least the same success rate as Assassin's "Critical Throw" (currently 50%)

 

If you're nerfing Smokescreen, perhaps making it dispelable would be a good idea, instead of making it shorter/non-TLable

 

don't touch shad.

 

Agreed. Don’t touch shad, can’t touch shad.

 

2 million shads ready to riot !!







(i dont even have shad wtf am i doing here)

 

One of the many concerns I see in this thread when talking about class balance is regarding Shadower's prowess vis a vis surviveability. Shifter has already been brought down to a 30% proc, which is fair given Shadowers ability to accumulate an absurdly high avoidability. As a melee class we rely upon avoidability/shifter to stick to targets in the same manner Warriors require stance. They are for me, an essential part of the class and its identity. Skilled with a blade, lithe and cunning; relying on skill and speed as opposed to sheer strength to get the job done.

This said, there is one contributing factor to Shadowers surviveabilty that I have thought for some time now is perhaps a little too strong, this of course being Meso Guard. All incoming damage just straight up being reduced by half is insanely strong, especially when you consider how much easier it is to make a char to 30k hp now. I would suggest that Meso Guard is reduced to 33% damage reduction rather than its current full half. One third of incoming damage mitigated is still huge. I think this adjustment falls nicely in line with the nerf to Alchemist NL's received many moons ago.

 

Shads do not need as many iframes as they have either, if any tbh.

I've been saying nerf MG for years, and I mained a shad to 200. 30-40% MG for sure, I would even suggest 25% which is still a huge defense buff against all damage and elements.

MG should probably also cost 30 SP (lowering SP from chakra/shield mastery), and should probably cost a bit more mesos (and mp, and even hp, or magic rocks) so it's not used at all times (good reasons to buff steal and pickpocket. Buffing steal to be able to steal bundles of healing items, as well as increase the chance to steal magic/summoning rocks, as well as bundles of potions, 1-3, and have pickpocket have a lower chance to have a mob drop potions as well as mesos, except for stoppers and such, is also something to consider adding to these sadly neglected skills)

Also the way pure HP from all equips is doubled because of MG is extremely clunky/OP too, for such a tank and runaway op class, and a server that is desperate for HP, to just double it for free.
I also want this because shad is one of the few classes you can play without washing, I want new players to confront the washing issue and be upset by it. It's just not healthy or fun. Just give folks a few mode avenues of HP. Like 10 new spring of youth fetch quests, more ruel like questlines, anything that players can do in-game.

Shads survivability is actually unprecedented in terms of balance, they are invisible tanks (with a wide range of utility and a massive party skill in smokescreen). No class has close to the over-tuned, lopsided nature of the class being almost entirely positive and rounded, and why the massive shad boom happened, and why they need to be nerfed in a few places.

Unfortunately staff buckled when trying to approach this a few years ago, but looked at the wrong issues, and stated they don't plan to nerf classes again. Hopefully they're wise enough to see how unhealthy that is. Sometimes players do not know what their class needs in context of all the others they play with

Shad has so much potential to be just as effective in parties and solo, without being so easy to play/OP.

Another angle to approach them, if staff isn't already looking at nerfing the glaring MG problem, is to make them a bit more demanding to play as a trade off for such easy survivability, more akin to sairs, like removing macros combos and lowering or removing iframes, and making darksight act like ship (allowing pressing darksight in darksight pops you out, so its way less clunky) perhaps extending the DS "mount/dismount" time (except when using assassinate) and increasing MP cost (endure exists and you should max it!)

Also making Chakra cast faster, and costing more mp, and giving the next used attack after Chakra a small attack boost, or 100% critical, for Chakra combos. This also makes playing shads more dynamic and tactile, and rewards skill based play like sair. This also makes them consider self healing instead of auto (to certain threshholds)

Ninja ambush is total junk and can also be buffed in a million different ways (or just scrapped). Shads have so much potential but imo they're just OP easy mode and tbh too many people are making them as a result and that's not a gatekeeping critique, it's a concern that they're less likely to be balanced in fear of "nerf" blowback instead of all these newer shad players seeing it as a "balancing" relative to other classes. Lots of shads don't even know what many of their skills do, like 89% of NLs now. That's a big indicator that a class has stagnated into a meta role instead of its broader intended one

But I'm not holding my breath here, and we have no idea what is on or off the table


Since I'm posting here I'll again say I think buccs single target damage is a bit OP especially considering how ubiquitous their two massive party skills are, their melee could be better (energy orb is just sitting their waiting to be buffed and attack like chain lightning). I think TL costing magic crystals, more mp, and even hp, as well as SI, are worth considering for such major buffs from a melee class with superior utility/survivability/damage.

Please open a good faith mage discussion thread. Them being farmers never to boss or party is just such awful wasted potential.

Make wings able to be cast while falling as well, instead of just from it's own jump

Please don't just give heroes more attack from enrage, it is such wasted potential and not what they need, even if it's what folks want

 

As a shad main I think it's totally fine if meso guard % gets nerfed, BUT only if we get rid of the dark sight requirement for assassinate. Which really should have no reason to exist anyway.

Getting stunned/sed in dark sight mid-combo (especially for high-ping shad players) and not being able to use pots or exit dark sight unless we right click it away is too common. While you can right click it, if you have lower hp, especially if you nerf mg, you pretty much only have about a second(?) to move your mouse precisely to the correct buff and right click it before you die in the next hit. I've cancelled my apple by accident this way. Most likely your hand isn't already on your mouse, so it's just an extra annoyance for no reason. It's also frustrating that despite getting hw10, I can't use it almost half the time since I'm stuck in dark sight (in sed/stun) and still have to right click it first (wasting time). Not to mention that if you get hit by laser in vl while in ds, you can't even right click ds because you can't see your buffs. Or (though much less annoying) that you have to time your stopper/apple consumption to make sure you're not in ds when using it. There's also some dps difference caused by having different latency due to the ds->assa lag, and it's kind of stupid that your dps is affected by how laggy you are when it has no reason to be.

I'm aware shad already has high survivability and I think it's ok to tune it down a little. But make sure it actually affects all shads equally and not just kill us sad, laggy shads, whereas the other shads only use 10 more elixirs per ht or something. tldr; REMOVE DARK SIGHT REQUIREMENT AAAAAA

 

Oh my where do I even start? This is one of the most ignorant takes I have seen in a while. I do hope you are not assuming smokescreen = iFrames because that would demonstrate a horrible misunderstanding of what the term "iFrames" means in video games. Bstep gives a very small window of iFrames that if learned to utilize optimally allows shad players to juke certain hostile abilities and attacks. It is very fun, satisfying to learn and do and changing this would completely ruin the class.

Honestly your entire post is full of absolute nonsense points and absurdities and as much as I would love to tear it apart paragraph by paragraph I have always espoused if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all

 

Cool tysm. Just talking about bstep though. Very easy to use it as a manual dodge, it's not difficult at all.

 

I think the ds setup is fine, I think it should stay as a wind up for nate. I think nate could use some work if we wanna discuss, but I agree ds in general is clunky.

It's better to allow more was to escape it than manual clicking off or reg att. DS should toggle with its own key, similar to battleship. Will should also toggle DS, and I think steal, chakra, and ambush as well. Perhaps even assaulter, but not until nate is above 15 perhaps

 

Increase threaten's accuracy reduction to 40 seconds too, like 8 seconds, who are you kidding??? Or maybe change it to avoid which can help with warrior/bucc's low accuracy issues

 

Buff bowmaster!
Hurricane damage + 10% or 8%

 

Maybe changing it to avoid could be used to abuse leech some how.
If threaten could decrease monster damage for like 10% or 20% that would be enough to help some low hp people survive some bosses.
Many changes can be done but dont make it give dps to the party.