In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

What strikes me as odd is that the update post indicated a desire to improve hybrid/polearm DKs, but the buff to Dragon Blood essentially made it WORSE to run hybrid, since a spear-only DK can run max crusher and lv13 spear fury and barely notice the difference, but a hybrid DK would have to give up SP in sacrifice or power crash in order to max all of spear crusher, polearm fury, and dragon blood.

If you really wanted to make polearms viable, the best move would be to merge both crushers and both furies into a single skill that can be used with both spear and polearm

doing the same thing to crusader with panic/coma would also make hybrid hero somewhat viable, as they could drop some points in coma/shout/improving mp recovery to max whatever core skills they didn't max in 2nd job

 

This change completely overlooks how the class actually progresses.....
That 97–98% damage estimate only applies to a fully maxed 4th job Buccaneer, which just isn't how most people experience the class.

In reality, nobody maxes Super Transformation right away because you have to prioritize other skills first to help you catch up with other classes. At level 1, ST is only up for 60 seconds with a massive 180-second cooldown, which is an insane nerf to our uptime. Since we're forced to rely on the rest of our rotation way more often now, but don't have the SP invested to make those skills actually do damage yet, our progression completely plummets.

This basically balances the entire class around the end-game, leaving mid-game Buccaneers way weaker compared to other classes. It's also going to turn close boss fights into a nightmare—if you’re already cutting it close to a 10-minute timer, that extra downtime is easily going to turn a clear into a timeout.

the math just wasn't balanced around actual 4th job leveling.

 

These changes are kinda weird.

You broke the hero class and literally did a "zero to hero" move on steroids while also making DrK completely irrelevant.

On top of that, Buccs may got nerfed only regarding super transformation, but do you realize you also nerfed Buccs DPS by locking demolition for a full minute and also nerfed Buccs mobbing by locking snatch for a whole minute?

On top of that, shad SS now has a map cooldown rather than an individual cooldown.

So yeah, shads damage is untouched, but by doing these changes you took the two best classes in the game (before patch) and slapped them in the face.

Rushing tail is no longer an option unless you're super strong.

Using smokes in the way they were used for a long time in VL is no longer an option..

Yeah, shads got avoid, damage untouched, shadow shifter is still 30%, but one accidental smoke, one bad smoke, and it can cause serious issues (you could TL, but then again, using TL to TL a singular smoke is just not worth it).

Shads aren't even the main issue here, it's Buccs and heros.

If before a drk was better, the new hero made the class irrelevant.

Why bother zerking? why bother look at your HP bar? Why bother making sure you're using HB so your auto pot doesn't fuck you up?

Open a hero, get it to 20k hp with ease, never look at your HP bar again, and everyone in your party are getting fat attack buffs.

For most casual players, it's not a big deal.
For endgame players who seek that damage, it changes a lot.
Even in the places where drks ruled - RG, cwk, LHC in general.. why the hell would anyone want a dk in those when you got a hero?

DrK was a mediocre class from the get go, now it's just insane to play one unless you're already playing it for a while.

To finalize,
By having an average 45 minutes VL run, Buccs are not using demo/snatch for around 11.5-12 minutes.
Is it just me who thinks this DPS loss is crazy?

I think that the bucc situation could've been handled differently. Nerf the damage, don't completely destroy the class.

 

Just speaking for myself, it's not about the DRK changes per se. DRKs getting a 12 ATT boost while on attack pots is a nice change. It's more to do with the fact that Heroes and DRKs have very similar playstyles and naturally fulfil the same roles in any party composition, so i guess you could say they're in direct competition with each other. Because of that, any changes to one class will naturally be compared against the other.

This is why I feel a bit discouraged playing a DRK right now. Even though DRKs have to put in more effort and take on more risk to maintain their DPS, it doesn't feel like they're ahead of Heroes in any area anymore. Not in DPS, not in party utility, and while you could argue crash is an advantage, it is really niche and doesn't feel significant enough. On top of that, DRKs also spend more mesos on potions, and they're more buff reliant than heroes are due to the way SE functions as an additive to skills multipliers and crusher having low multiplier compared to brandish.

Just to be clear... i'm not asking for a revert on heroes or nerf at all, heroes are really strong now, great for the hero mains and lovers, keep it that way. But drk changes does feel underwhelming no? Apart from dragon's blood and vertical range, the other changes doesn't feel like it has any impact, especially when compared to what heroes received.

Talking about the changes now, on top of having a higher Zerk threshold at the cost of lower damage, why not have the extra option of a lower Zerk threshold (40% or 30%) for higher damage (240%?) as well?
That would certainly be nice and aligns nicely with drk zerk identity. And speaking of identity, i'm feeling slightly worried (okay im very worried tbh!) about the direction of the class since Tim mentioned HB might be turned into a stance party buff as well.

This feels like the paladin change all over again and turning drks into paladin 2.0, where it's identity got replaced to be another tool for other classes to use (paladins identity became all about their crash where it should have been about their elements), and i really hope that doesn't happen to drks. (drk identity becoming all about their stance buff instead of zerk).

 

(Base Zerk 200%)
Since we're already changing 50.1%–60% to a 160% buff, might as well also add:
Below 40%: 210% (205%/220%)
Below 30%: 220% (210%/240%)
Below 20%: 230% (215%/260%)
That should be fine too

 

I think people are overreacting, yes the 1min cd for super transformation is bad, but it's not that bad. I managed to do all content including RG within the same timeframe I usually do em

 

and what level is your super transformation?

 

I feel like the implication that Heroes becoming viable at all causing DrK's viability to decrease says more about what state DrK's were already in than any particular buff Heroes got.

 

Not really, the main issue is that dk and hero are the exact same class.
So if drk is stronger, everyone play drk.
If hero is stronger, everyone play hero.
But drk have an excuse to be stronger, in the form of zerk, which hero doesn't, so it make no sense for hero to be stronger, it is just bad class design.

 

it was 1, maxed to 20 now

 

Concentrate does not stack with rage. May be intended since both are skills anyway but just putting it here.

 

For Hero, I think reinforcing the "consume orbs to gain certain abilities" class identity would be a better way to differentiate from DRK — the current +38 WA directly clashes with DRK's identity.

Options could include:

• Modifying Coma/Panic/Enrage (add CD, increase damage)
• Or reworking Shout (add CD, 10 mobs, consume orbs, expanded Hit-Box, increased damage)

 

Idk about the endgame for Hero and DRK but isn't a stackable 12wa party buff a bit much?

I don't know if the idea was that rage should be on par with HB in terms of usefulness, but in a server that's been min maxed to hell that also has options to fix HP with quests Hyper Body just isn't as useful as it once was?

Why would I continue to play DRK when I can just play Hero where I can easily wash to 30K, buy cheaper pots, not rely on SI and just AFK attack while using rage/enrage every once in a while?

(Also when buffing a class please don't overtune their 2nd and 3rd job skill that'll just introduce more mulestory)

 

The Hero players I know say that Hero is now so strong it’s overpowered even on its own.
It has plenty of attack power and an excessive attack range (it can hit both of HT’s heads).
Isn’t that a bit over the top?

 

The issue isn’t the dmg, the issue is people played it as a brain dead class that needed no attention like nightlords, easy to use in multiclienting situations etc. and the loss of mobbing with snatch.

 

I love the change to charge blow! Now please just do something about paladin hitting damage cap and losing dps compared to other classes, then paladin will be perfect!

 

this is a nerf lol

 

I second this

Some players hit the cap too often it surely leads to lots of dps loss
If dont wanna uncap 199k , what about divide blast dmg with 2 or 3lines

 

That'll just be a hero. The good thing about pally's damage being 1 line is the ability to easily hit knockback damage to pin bosses.

 

I just tried using “bucc” with Multi-Attack.
Since I want to use the same button for attacks with all characters, I simply switch the skill macro in the bottom-right corner of the screen with my mouse as soon as the transformation wears off, and then transform again and switch the skill macro back once the cooldown is up.
It just involves a little extra effort to switch macros and having to keep an eye on the transformation cooldown—other than that, the gameplay experience hasn’t changed at all.

It’s just added a tiny bit of extra stress.
Is this really worth it?
It might have an impact on people who play without looking at the screen much.

Also, in situations where AoE is necessary, or against bosses that require using “demo x3,” the impact might be significant. But other than that, the gameplay experience remains almost unchanged—my conclusion is that it’s really just added a tiny bit of hassle and stress.