In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

buffing heroes to do more damage than drks and planning to turn drk into a utility bot is like buffing NLs to do more damage than sairs.

let's give NL quad throw to do more damage than corsairs and give corsairs party utility as compensation and we will see if sair mains are fond of that change.

 

If i feel not comfortable.i just make 10 bucc mule ,tl for super transformation when i want,it dosent matter,let us make bucc strong again!

 

I support your quad throw proposal.

 

I tested this in-game, if you have 1 HP and dragon blood is active, it doesn't kill you and the buff expires when the HP drain would have happened

 

As tim mentioned, buccs are expected to retain around 97–98% DPS with the new ST changes. Has anyone figured out how to do that? especially in contents like HT and auf

 

That's in ideal single target conditions, since the difference between barr+demo and barr+ds on single target is around 10% and you have to use the inferior combo only 25% of the time.
In content where you have to multi target the damage loss will be greater obviously.
That said, Bucc is still fairly strong on all target counts, its just that your multi target combo off transform is now DS spam which feels super lame, blast x2 + DS macro will outdamage it, but blast cant really reach far enough to hit all targets.

 

That’s only in theory.
At HT if you happen to lose bubble and st is in cd, you will have to attack at the edge, and you get knocked down easily. Good luck climbing without bubble.

At core blaze and auf, you get knocked half screen away, or worse get knocked down to cb and die.

Charging without demo (or ST, I don’t know the mechanism) is slow. I feel more floating at auf than before.

 

exactly..previously, I’d Barrage + Demo when bubble was up, then swap platform and spam Demo to recharge bubble. But now, if bubble is down while ST is on cd, i’m spending all of that 60s climbing ladders.

As for Core Blaze, previously I could Snatch + DS mobs to keep them locked in front while killing them. Now it feels much riskier, especially during the short DS downtime where mobs can move around or circle behind.

Any pro tips on how to handle these?

 

Rage stack DK DB ( hight att pots drk still win heros )
and give Special buff (only for Dk /Hero)
when DK with Rage damage received -20% zerk+10%
when Hero with HB mastery +10%
Drk/Hero together Strong , Stop Fight and Help each other

 

This isn't possible. HP is stored as a signed 16 bit int, making the max possible value 32,767.

 

for bubble, I was thinking along the lines of making bubble charge faster with single line skills. Like dragon strike getting 5x bubble charge

 

anyway if staff is determined to give drk some kind of party utility, can it not be stance? Stance is a warrior speciality and it shouldn't be loosely granted to other classes, imagine a sair having shadow shifter, and honestly, how many classes would actually benefit from it?
BM / MM / SAIRS, that's pretty much it, i don't really see squads recruiting drks just so they can give stance to buffers so they can buff others or giving stance to the 1-2 sairs in the entire 30 man squad.
The other warriors certainly don't need the stance, shads/NLs don't, buccs don't due to their iframes. It will be a really weak utility just like HB is now.

Allow me to suggest an alternative! My idea would be to have max leveled HB provide 5% damage reduction (like achilles but only 5%) to the entire party, and then revert the 20% achilles on drk back to 15% (not a nerf, they'd still have 20% DR with HB just like now).
My reasoning is so that this way, staff can design future bosses to hit above 30k, and every job can survive 31k hits with HB, giving actual importance to drk in a squad. The 1-hit doesn't have to be an undodgeable attack, it can be dodgeable but at the cost of time wasted, so HB would allow squads to actually do more damage due to not needing to dodge said attacks. Squads will then have to weigh if they need the HB for more run speed or can they afford to waste time dodging attacks.

And if there's worries about drk themselves not surviving the attack due to zerking or not willing to manual pot, the designed attacks can be elemental based as drks actually have 40% elemental damage reduction from their 3rd job skill, so they can actually survive a 31k lightning-based attack while under 15k hp! (tbh actually i'm not too sure if the DR from ele resist is additive to achilles or they take place seperately but you get the point! And also, why is VL lightning not real lightning )

 

The server's #1 dk has some unsurprisingly good takes. If you draw parallels to the sair/NL single target dps, neither of those classes offer much utility. Same thing pre patch 97. With the stale HP washing meta (still unchanged) everyone is washed enough to do content and hb was either for noobs or for a self buff to 30k to maintain zerk. Heroes now have huge utility and DPS with a 12 wa party buff and a 38 wa self buff. Dks can now run content without needing a rage mule and have baby mode zerk.
Was zerking the impossible too hard? The class design rewarded managing HP with more dps. Instead of more dps for better HP management, we got baby mode zerk for less reward and less work. This is crazy in comparison to +38 wa. I would argue pettily that I would want 38 wa for zerking under 40% hp, but I think 230% would better reflect the 10% HP changes.
I don't think it should be like legends used to have it with more dps scaling linear to lower HP. It would lead to too much gatekeeping. Where the changes are right now, the only reason to make a dk over a hero is they're cooler (massive cope).

 

I had similar thoughts when reading the Phase 2 ideas.

If HB grants stance it would be most helpful to us archers (and sairs), but also we're the least likely people to get it. As a MM it's hard enough begging ppl to put a bucc in my party, let alone a bucc AND a drk (and a hero now too?), when it's usually filled with NLs instead. It would probably end up just being melees sticking together as they do now and benefiting their own stance further, not us. Similar to how we would do great with smoke, but we never get to be in smoke party.

I'd much prefer getting stance from Puppet/Focus instead like the other suggestion mentions. We have none of the defensive stuff that other classes have, we need something badly and we shouldn't have to depend on another class for it.

(...and PS: Puppet still DCs us in VL, so please fix that first, especially if you're adding stance or something to it )

 

Actually drk zerk it's not hard for 80%boss
When my drk runing HT or cwkpq or Farm ABC
i can ez zerk spam crusher with pet auto pots( no achlies)+duo /trio att +counting bs mule feeling drk as a Better hero (much stronger)

high risk, high return
gve DKs
<30% 230%
<40% HP zerk 220% damge
<50% Hp 210% no change
＞60% 160%
Fot challenge self Dks ……Die or crazy Dps

Hero rage is great no need change
by comparison, HB seems useless....
Give drk useful party buff pls..

 

Scaling zerk any further would lead to gatekeeping content. I know I wouldn't want a dk who can't only 60% zerk in my party. I think the 60% change is overall a bad thing. You can kill yourself hitting huge sacrifice lines trying to go from 50-60 to under 50 if you sacrifice and get hit by a big attack. It's no longer a reliable 3-4k HP cost. Now it can cost 10k of you high roll a stab at 190% zerk. As a masochist and a dk enjoyer I would enjoy a flat 40% for 230% but I know the noobs wouldn't be down for that XD

 

Can call me biased all you want, but I think a lot of people complaining that the Hero buff is too overpowered is overblown. Rage + Enrage is 10% damage increase, and enrage is only active 2/3 of the time. That would put them probably just under Shads/Buccs pre nerf buffs dps (just off top of head, no actual evidence of this).
That said, I think awlz has some good suggestions here. There probably needs to be some change, whatever that may be, to DrKs and even Pallys as well to now Kobe them up to the new Hero changes.
Are Heroes not meant to be WA centric warriors (hence having wa buffs before), DrKs being HP centric warriors, and Pallys being more mobbing/utility based warriors. The buff doesn’t all of a sudden push Heroes to the very top many are saying. NLs can probably still easily out dps Heroes in a single target dps test. Rage being now a party buff is around 4.2% or so buff to the parties DPS. It’s still something but not some game breaking thing. For example, using SI for Claymore Hero (can’t speak for other classes) is about 20% damage increase.

 

this can probably be fixed by making sacrifice unaffected by the zerk damage increase

 

This is the way i look at this change, perhaps it's the wrong way i should look at it, but regardless sharing my perspective. instead of looking at it as rage being a party buff that grants 4.2% DPS increment to the party, I look at it like pre-patch, a party with an average of 60 cgs goes HT, does the run at 60 cgs pace...
but post-patch right now, the same group goes HT, suddenly, all of them can be 72 cgs attackers instead.... 12 att increment that they would have needed to spend months to get, now freely given... ONLY with a hero in their party. This alone absolutely skyrockets the value and demand of heroes to any party composition through the roof! Try not raging in your party and you'll see your party member shouting "rage please" within 3 secs of expiry, this i promise you.
Of course this is a wrong way of looking at it since it's not an exclusive thing and everyone can enjoy the benefits of rage... except drks, which brings me to my next point.

so heroes becomes almost mandatory for any optimized party and in contrast, because parties would rather get another class to further benefit from rage, drks not being able to receive rage, gets devalued and lower in demand to any party (there was hardly any to begin with *shrug*), which is why the hero change is damning to any drks. The complaints were never really because of heroes own DPS level up, but more about the dynamics between heroes/drks and their worth to any given party.

I agree heroes are WA centric warriors, i disagree with drks being hp centric. All warriors are HP centric. Drks gimmick is giving up survivability to do more damage, hence berserk, sacrifice, dragon blood, dragon roar. They were never meant to be tanks, they were meant to be glass cannons, so i do feel there's a bit of irony that the glass cannons drks could get upstaged by heroes in DPS.

 

Can we please get a test dummy feature to test out this mess so that we can finally have evidence-based discussions rather than just throwing feelings and guesses around? If we don't have active or experienced game balancers who actually play and understand the game, we should at least let the players do the testing themselves. The controversies surrounding bucc 97%–98% dps and hero vs. drk could be easily tested if we had a dedicated tool for it.