In Discussion Class/Skill [Feedback Request] Skill Changes and Balancing

please dont add stance to hb, add it to iron will instead, corsairs is often asking me not to hb since i make them lose their ship easier.

 

This poison design is how most other games play with poison, and as someone who used to be Scholar in FFXIV I think it's really fun and cool, because you're thinking about how you can stack your DOTs and which rotation is best/most comfy in a given scenario. Which also fits with the fire aspect of the class, the entire design of FP should be DOT IMO. If they did this I'd 100% make one!

 

I already know about washing, and am washing a bit even if it's my first character. And sadly there's no way to mess with washing without messing with APR and leeching economy. Those two are directly linked to how absolutely vital this shit garbage dookie crap mechanic is. I will never be able to do Auf if I don't absolutely hammer HP quests for years. It's actually ridiculous.

And as much as some people might get pissed off at it, as a new player I would want nothing more (aside from BM/MM buffs) to see washing go away. I deal sickeningly low damage simply because I have 160 int and that's really low for washing. And I can't do fun things like play the gachapon because I stress every NX has to go to APRs because I can't afford them with meso. It's a mechanic that only serves long time players who can bishop mage farm and other sorts of leeching, as someone who just wants to play the game and have fun on my bm it SUCKS and slows down every grind because I have literally 160 INT that could increase my range by maybe even over 50%. All for what? Being allowed to do late game content at all? Either content should be reworked to not need it or washing should be removed, I joined this server to start with because I heard HP quests were viable alternatives.

I like the idea of HP mattering, but I feel like you can double the impact of Olaf and even triple Reuel quests and still not make a dent in the washing econ for those minmaxers who want it. They take a long time and lots of effort to do, and to be able to do content just because you don't understand or can afford washing (which is ALL NEW PLAYERS), having an alternative to strive for that doesn't feel like a slug fest would be cool. Or, better yet, allow Reuel's to not be daily. Just allow people to spend HOURS and HOURS grinding for it if they'd like. People with mage farmers will still leech their mules and funded people who don't will still leech and wash, cause it's so much faster and easier. But those who can't or are new will have a cool grind to do later with satisfying results instead of quitting because they didn't wash early on.

Washing is so stupid.

 

Genesis, Meteor and Blizzard should be left relatively untouched. I was specifically referring to single-target skills and/or small AOE skills and making them viable in a skill rotation that would be actively used in boss fights.

As for F/P mages, they could add utility/debuff effects to Poison Cloud and Paralyze. For example, enemies under the effect of poison cloud have their defenses reduced by X percentage amount, and enemies affected by Paralyze take X percentage more damage or something... So we end up with 2 unique spellcaster classes with their own respective playstyles with one dealing semi-decent damage and the other providing useful utility benefits. Both can be viable in boss fight scenarios.

 

TimK as a player with a level 200 NL and level 200 bowmaster. I think I got an experience based take of getting bowmaster and Nightlords in a better position.

In the current situation:

Bowmasters and MM: are way to weak in general have bad avoid and no flash jump to reposition and their damage output is not in line with the downsides of the class.

Nightlords: are way too reliant on SE for damage output(SE increases the damage of a nightlords over 50%). A level 200 NL without SE does terrible damage and this is very noticeable in content like rose garden.

My proposal:

Bowmasters and MM: It may sound weird, but nerf sharp eyes a bit (I will explain how much this nerf should be when we get to the nightlord part). Boost the damage output of bowmasters and mm skills so much that will be 15-20% stronger in damage output even after the sharp eyes nerf.

Nightlords: Make the skill alchemist also increase the attack on consumed pots with 25%. Nerf sharp eyes to the extend that an NL on appo or gelt is in about the same spot in damage output as in the current situation. This will make it so Nightlords less reliant on sharp eyes. So that they will perform better in content like rose garden. Also low level hermits/NL's that don't have an SE mule or a high level bowmaster friend will be in a better position when they are on a attack pot.

I think these changes will put nightlords and bowmaster/MM in a better position. The skill sharp eyes will still be a huge damage increase, but it will make nightlords more self reliant without increasing their total damage output in a scenario where they are buffed with sharp eyes.

(A Nightlord on a VL pot or demon elixer will be slightly stronger, but these pots are expensive enough that it's not economical for nightlords to constantly use them. (If the damage output of nightlords is about the same in the current and my new scenario when on gelt. It's only 25% on the additional 20 extra attack that the VL pot or demon elixer provides. That 25% will give 5 extra attack nothing too crazy))

I don't know if this is the right spot to post balance change idea, but I hope you read it TimK and maybe even consider it.

 

Isnt this a nerf to the other SE reliant classes? IDK about Sair but I do know DrK benefits a lot from it.

 

To sum up what I think would make Bucc more fun to play:
- Make Transformation have the duration 60% of it's cooldown (from current 75% to 60%)
- Increase Demolition damage by ~10%
- Decrease Barrage damage by ~10%
- Increase Energy skills / Energy Orb damage to be comparable but weaker than Demolition, stronger than Barrage+DragonStrike, or shorten it's animation delay (also maybe do something to the damage decay of Energy Orb)
- Make charged state manually cancellalbe
- Fix the bug that top right duration indicator (Transformation, Rage) resets itself randomly when cast other skills
- Random idea (might as well disregard this):

Increase the charging speed of Dragon Strike when used in Transformation
When charged state is manually cancelled, energy charge starts from 30~50% instead of current 0%
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So you also understand that NL will be much weaker when not using atk pot / using low atk pot right?

 

TMA-based DoT gameplay is genuinely interesting — unfortunately, the only class with an all-mob DoT (non-boss) is Sair rather than f/p.

Perhaps the code could be adapted from Sair's code.

 

Losing Demo-Barrage for 40% of the time is already a nerf in itself — I think Barrage's damage needn't to be reduced perhaps. Also, do non-ST state skill hitboxes need to be extended? And does Snatch need to be changed to a non-ST state skill or a Charge skill?

 

What did BM and MM do to you to make you say that SE should be nerfed?

Your request is very vague and silly, so I say no to nerfing SE for both classes.

 

I do not think bucc needs to have Snatch 100% of the time.
In LHC golem you can do a DS to grab aggro, then use Corkscrew Blow / warrior magnet when they have got closer.
In VL warrior magnet does well enough.
In RG or in general multi-target situation I hope Energy Orb can be a good alternative (see above)

 

I think the better way to reduce NL's reliance on SE is to "Normalize" the critical damage formula.
This is the current critical damage logic:
Critical Throw/Shot: critical damage 200% = +100%
Sharp Eyes: critical damage +40% = +140%

If we set a base critical damage as 100%, adjust SE to +40%, the damage of archers and NLs without SE will be increased, while their damage with SE will remain the same.(also has no impact on other classes)

As we can see, TT damage without SE increases by 25%, while Avenger damage without SE increases by 20%.
The damage increase from SE for TT is reduced from 53% to 22.4%, for Avenger is reduced from 42.4% to 18.67%

*This adjustment may make Sniper/Hermit too powerful at the 3rd job but i think the impact would still be smaller than NL att potion buff.

 

Just some positive feedback:

The buff for Hero is very good. The Rage and Enrage skills are finally viable.
The increased range of Brandish is also excellent; I can now hit V1 from the upper platform (just like a Paladin, for example).

For Archers, the stronger arrows are a great addition.

I can't comment on other classes, as I'm currently only playing Hero and Marksman.

 

First off, the Dragon Blood buff was a nice surprise. I’m glad Heroes got the buffs they needed, and they should 100% keep them.

However, the new buff logic is inconsistent. The patch notes state Hex of the Beholder's W.atk was removed because it overwrote attack potions.
If overwriting was the issue, why delete the stat entirely? For Hero's Enrage and Rage, you solved this exact problem by simply making them stack.

Running the numbers—from 30 cgs up to 80 cgs + Aufed—an equally geared Hero out-damages a DrK across the board.
Previously, Heroes would win self-buffed or with SI, only losing slightly when SE+SI was added.
After Phase 1, Heroes clear DrKs in all single-target situations, buffed or unbuffed. I don't mind Heroes being stronger, but since both classes fill the exact same bossing role—and Rage offers more utility —the damage gap shouldn't be so wide.

Instead of recycling old Berserk suggestions, here are two alternatives that fit the previous balancing logic. (I am suggesting just one of these, not both):

Option 1: Restore and Stack Beholder's 15 W.atk
Restoring Beholder's attack and letting it stack with pots mirrors the Enrage rework. Heroes still have the edge, but the gap narrows.

Option 2: Bump Beholder's Mastery from 80% to 85%
If we want to avoid raw W.atk power creep, this yields a ~2.6% boost in average damage. Like the Axe and Crossbow updates, it lifts the damage floor without raising the max damage ceiling.
This also narrows the gap while being consistent with the Drk's identity.

 

But I think most of Bucc's rotation fluidity comes from Snatch and Demo. After losing Demo, Barrage can cover roughly half of that (through hitbox adjustments to address range issues) — but Snatch is a completely unique skill with no real equivalent, so I think full-time Snatch access is essential. Dragon Strike is purely a supplementary AoE damage skill with a lower-tier substitute (Shockwave), which is exactly why I suggested swapping the two.

I'm also curious about the possibility of incorporating Energy Orb into the rotation — but no matter how you adjust its damage/range/mob count, it seems to always overlap with other skills. The only remaining option might be a full-screen AoE (I've seen this kind of change elsewhere before).

 

Yeah but without SE a Nightlord will be stronger with any attack pot. It's a trade off. I just wanted to throw my idea out there, but I get your point.

 

Yeah very minor though and those other SE reliant classes might also might need some small buffs.

 

What about just an NPC that sells concentrated carrot juice (or have it drop from a boss or both) which is like a 5 min 100% crit DMG 10% crit rate buff. Worse than real SE but still usable, and can provide a meso sink or make a new boss a bit more attractive to run.

 

Not trying to cleave productive convos here at all but should phase 1, as well as phase 2 discussions be their own threads?

 

It's a cool idea but as it stands if SE is only a nice improvement and not a complete gamechanger I'm afraid I won't be needed at all for anything lategame as people can just settle for a little less dps than pull the effort of finding SE. So then I won't be an SE slave but also not needed for parties either. The ability to crit at ALL for classes without crit (and the added damage for NL) is the main reason SE is desired.
I still think for phase 2 bowman classes need more buffs to stay on top of it in terms of damage, and I loved the idea I heard earlier about increasing the scaling for us, as apparently we scale poorly compared to other classes. Seems so strange to me that we have so many skills that give flat WA yet we still have lower damage than most classes.