In Discussion Bossing [Feedback Request] Von Leon

Trio shad auf loses to no one. I'll bet money on it. Right pin and cleave main auf with top clone.

 

Shhh let them think otherwise

 

I'm sure shads are great in auf but what midwinter is trying to say is that while shads provide decent damage and great utility in bosses such as auf, they're not ideal for fast clear times. Enough of derailing the thread.

I just want to point out that VL is a boss that you can only enter twice per week and there's only a handful of groups that consistently run every week. Personally, I don't think it needs a nerf in HP; the initial nerf was enough to make it a feasible 12-18man goal that staff intended for. Let there be a reason why this challenging boss can only be run twice per week.

Different classes shine in different aspects, as said in the previous comments. NLs have their fame and glory in almost every other boss in the game so I think it's fine to have the spotlight on melees for VL. Not to say that ranged classes are worthless for VL, I still think they're great; they just need to be in bigger party compositions. If I wanted to finish a duo/trio HT in 1 hr, I'd simply just prioritize 2/3 NLs in a party to minmax damage with the least amount of people, but I'd take melees and other mid-tier classes for anything above a quad. Same concept applies for people that want to minmax damage in the smallest expedition possible (12man is the record so far). You'd want to take all melees to clear the mobs while also dealing consistent DPS to VL (something NLs do not excel at), but you'd still would be willing to take NLs and other ranged classes for anything above 15+man, right? Every class is viable; it's just certain classes are not viable in situations such as 12man runs.

 

Sorry for the 2nd post, idk how to edit a quote in but:

^^^ I think this sentence solution is spot on. Ranged classes can be viable in a 12man run if jail RNG doesn't take 6 shads/buccs and leave only the bishops and NL and SE out. A 12man I hosted with 1 SE and 2 NLs failed with 25-30% hp left and that was mainly due to golems and gargoyles double spawning while the majority of melees were in jail, leaving the mobs to the NLs and SE and few warriors to deal with. It would help a lot if the people sent to jail was dependent in a few from each class, instead of it being pure RNG. Honestly, anything that decreases the RNG aspect of this boss should be the focus imo, and that would second-hand also fix the class balancing aspect too. A nerf to the hp isn't needed at all.

 

I watched Doos 18 man 50 gcs run. If the heal at {45:29} had been mitigated, this run would have been a clear. This was unable to be achieved due to jail+summon happening simultaneously. My initial thoughts on this were as follows.

Making slight adjustments to reduce the instances of double mob summon + jail would alleviate the extra stress compositions with more ranged classes are presented by this. This would make the boss "fairer", for lack of a better word, for ranged classes while preserving the overall difficulty and challenge.

Making target priory in relation to who gets pulled into jail manipulable. Similar to how the first person to enter HT main room will be the priory target for sed. The first people to enter VL audience chamber get target priority for jail for example. This would allow nl parties to ensure they are not left trying to deal with mobs while all their mob clear gets pulled into jail. I have no idea if this would be possible to implement though.

 

Remove Knight's scroll
I think removing this requirement to enter the boss would make the VL experience much better for all players.
I suggest the 4th tower npc would just warp you to the audience room. There are similar bosses already like the auf haven expedition that require a long questline like VL but don't require a consumable item to enter.

As an organizer I have to spend 30-60 minutes of my time before the runs to make sure people have an opportunity to get a scroll. The players I've spoken with also don't like how they have to stay for an extra 20-50 minutes to farm a scroll for their next run after an hour of an intensive boss fight.

There are a few common cases where you end up in the situation where 20 people are waiting on the audience room for a poor soul to farm a scroll:
- Someone forgets that they don't have a scroll and only notice when run is due to start
- Someone doesn't show up and a standin has to be recruited and they don't have a scroll ready
Because there is so many people involved in a VL run one of these scenarios happen quite often.

I think everyone's time should be valued here and the scroll should not be required.

 

Or make them stackable again like they used to be. Then it's easy to prepare a lot ahead of time

 

Doesn't address the two scenarios I listed and doesn't really change anything if you just farm one when you need it.
Edit: Why would it be preferable to have the current knight scroll system?

 

Could just make it an etc and just only need to have in inventory after completing the quest the first time (i.e. Krex Hammer; remains permanent). This should be echoed for Pink Bean prequest too and its Marble of Chaos. Imagine if you had to recruit a random for Pink Bean because someone couldn't make it and the random has to drop 50~100m+ to buy etc from FM just to enter the Final boss of the game cause they used the marble a few days back. Or maybe there's none in fm and can't join the run on the spot.

 

My overall feeling of bon so far:

I think my sample size is big enough at the moment to make the conclusion that bonus drops are simply not good enough.
I've gone on 2 runs weekly since the introduction of bonus and all I got was topaz ores, gold ores and some useless scrolls.
I'm aware that my luck is not great, but I suggest the following to prevent such cases:

- individual bonus room
- guaranteed totems + energy drops
- less filler items, there's no place for refined jewels or useless scrolls in such boss
- addition of more valuable items to bonus, with a better spread to prevent dramatic changes in the market

I'm still losing meso on running vl

 

VL bon does indeed feel horribly underwhelming. I think the room should be one to four people at most per instance. Give everyone a fair crack at opening as many boxes as they can. The bonus room should be a treasure chamber you get to raid. Instead its a lackluster school fair raffle. Even if you still only got junk it would at least be a better experience than "my two boxes were the wrong ones". Organizers wouldn't need to mess around allocating everyone their boxes then either. They already have enough to do

 

Got a similar experience with the bonus stage. The only jackpot item is the shoes and those only drop 0-1x per run on average.
Combine that with the 2 run weekly limit and the variance in the value you get is very high.
A normal bonus for me is some totems and one some combination of 0m-30m scrolls. Best I got was 100m from a eye luk 10%. The totems you get are a similar amount you get from the rose garden boss that takes 10mins to clear as solo.
Overall I think addition of the bonus stage is an improvement to the previous version since there are less things to split and at least some incentives to run the boss other than belts. I haven't thought much about how to alter the drops but at least on the surface the wider pool of valuable items at lower odds sounds like a good idea to me. Totems and energies are pretty worthless unless you are actively crafting belts.

 

Can we get announcements when someone leaves the expedition, similar to CWKPQ? Would be very helpful to see when someone DCs/leaves/times out a death

 

I believe burning energy need adjust or rework it.


1hour (we got se mule) Burning energy from 10+-~178.

I suggest all mobs in LHC should drop burning energy.

 

Some premature feedback for next update:

1) From the staff blog: "watch out for a much deadlier version of Damage Reflect in the future!".
When you mention deadly DR, I have to assume it 1-shots, since anything else would just get covered by auto pot.
If you implement such mechanic, it's important to make sure it will not kill players instantly while clearing mobs.
Otherwise, parties will not be able to clear mobs at all.
As we learned before - rushing mobs away from VL is just rubberbanding hell, so that's not an option.
Whatever you decide to implement, please playtest and make sure to prevent such situation.

2) It would be really nice if for next update you could remove scroll farming as a whole, it's been long waited.

Hopefully whatever comes next is an interesting and positive change!

 

Ah I was reading that as not a VL change, but a hint at potential Pink Bean mechanics in the future

Or at least make them stackable again like every other boss entry item. Farming isn't that bad - just do an LHC golems run every other month and get plenty, as long as you can stack them.

 

Hopefully there's a warning too?
I remember reading damage reflect couldn't be "fixed" because the casting animation + DR are triggered at the same time due to some client limitation so you just die if you don't have 2x the hp
as a bm it's instant death, but other classes probably aren't bothered

 

Rielle had responded to me: "It's a limitation with v83 clients. AFAIK there hasn't been a way for v83 (or older) servers to do something like this." Unfortunately, the other big server has managed to tweak DR to have your attacks do 1 damage against the boss and have a delay when DR appears and when it starts it actually reflect damage... making it possible for players to react to it. And its a v62 server

Who knows if Dev Yeep managed to add a delay

 

Hi, saying it again here, please consider changing von leon chaos scroll 60% -> 100% because currently it is A PILE OF AUIEHUGEHUT$WY%&*WIOFHNVDAIOSNFVIONFVOI.