The Von Leon sample size was too small and the adjustment was made too quickly to be justified. The only appropriate adjustment from what I have seen is changing the hitbox of the golems and lessen the time getting warped to jail. With these two changes, it will help a lot of the players. Von Leon should not be a boss where everyone can defeat, it should be a boss that shows the progression of a player and the mechanics of each player. Von Leon has also shown communication and practise is key in defeating the boss along with party composition. As for rewards, it should scale to the amount of people participating especially if it requires 20+ players to clear. I hope the staff do take into consideration this constructive feedback. Thanks.
Didn't get to record this on video, but B2 Von Leon completely disappeared from the map ~45mins into my run, I flashjumped back and forth from one end to another for a whole minute and couldn't find the boss. Other teammates could confirm Von Leon just wasn't in the map at all since we had dead people in both corners. He reappeared after a few minutes though LMAO.
Just out of curiosity, why were there so many sudden adjustments introduced at once this patch? At the end of the day, it seems like it would have made the most logical sense to introduce gradual adjustments over time rather than push out sudden adjustments when there hasn't even been that many opportunities to test the content yet--starting with the golem hitbox and maybe the jail room. With the actual difficulty of the boss mechanics aside, I think much of the discontent from many members of the community arises from the fact that a lot of these adjustments were never discussed by the community or even introduced to the community. And this is something Staff have discussed internally time and time again too. Making all these public threads to gather community feedback only ends up feeling like disingenuous lip service when there is so much limited transparency and agency that prevents players from actually meaningfully contributing to game decisions. And even if it doesn't ultimately change your decisions, what's the harm in just... asking people about it beforehand? (to be fair the harm is that players here are hella toxic but i feel like the conversations until recently have been very reasonable). Like Joel said, it seems like there was a difference in how the Staff and the community envisioned this boss, and I just feel like a lot of these misunderstandings could have been overcome with a little more transparency and dialogue.
Definitely agree with Sen. No point in asking players for feedback if it's mostly going to be ignored. Though I would like to thank TimK for bringing up one of the potential changes staff thought about even though it wasn't implemented. I think that should be how feedback discussions should go about. If the intention was to always have it be like a 12-18 player expedition then why not preface the feedback thread with what staff originally intended the boss to be? It completely changes the direction of potential feedback. Players were told in-game to fix their comps and get much better at mechanics with the intention of the boss being doable as it initially released. We were told it was doable as staff themselves beat it.
TBH Idk where to start. It’s a bit complicated since, I probably be not too onboard with anyone here. Last night patch not only leave me disappointed, it also leaves me a few questions. Before I start, I would like to say a few Things: -Now it looks like it was unintended, but even being by accident I think you now got the key about what your current endgame community actually wants. A really hard challenge. Its not only Rogue, there’s quite a few of ppl who were trying(who knows how much effort they putted into this, and now all of that effort is worthless) and getting closer and closer, that’s why you guys see many ppl disappointed. Being this the case, I would like to ask to loosen up on how you planned things, to give more what the ppl want. Every game need minor challenges (I think there’s plenty already in game) but also requires BIG ones, that’s a good design. - If possible, I would also like a reverse with minor changes. And leave VL as the ultimate Royals challenge, if anything you can make with PB what you thought VL was supposed to be, it even would make sense since VL comes after PB in the Core. Release dates with be a bit odd maybe, but it will still make sense. Now, honestly, I kind of expected a nerf if after some time there wasn’t enough clears. What its extremely odd is the timing. You guys made it only twice a week, and changed it b4 the 2nd week ended? why? Really… why? Even if it actually needed a nerf, why so quick? Personally despite all the failed runs I didn’t saw a single serious petition to nerf it. Please stop trying to stick to your own designs at 100% and look around b4 make any change. Another question: - It has been confirmed that the staff testing group was able to clear it b4 the launch and you labeled this change: · A bug which resulted in more players than intended being banished to Aerial Prison by Von Leon was fixed. As a bug. You were also present in most if not all the VL runs that were hosted. Why you guys didn’t mention this bug was happening? That would let us know that the challenge was bigger than it planned from start, and we wouldn’t be so surprised with this change. You didn’t noticed it? - What was the point of monitored every run then? You labeling bug as an excuse to nerf it?. - Then how you guys were able to do it b4 the current nerf?. What equips u were wearing? Aren’t you aware that, even if on paper a 100wa gears Nl deals the same if not less dmg than 3 Nls with 50wa ones, the fact that there’s just 1 person vs 3 makes the organization part way easier?. This along with : · Von Leon's banish skill cooldown has been slightly increased. Made The challenge laughable, although, lets see how hard is to do it with the recommended size of 12-18 ppl.(btw the rewards IMO aren’t in the table as an argument cs, its not profitable for either 30, 18 or 12 ppl). But, BUT despite it isn’t the most impactful change, this are the ones that tilted me the most. · Demon Gargoyle Hardskin buff duration has been slightly reduced. Von Leon's summon skill will now summon 4 Demon Gargoyles instead of 6. What on earth you guys were thinking???? *Trying to be calm b4 I write anything else* Really guys, I barely slept last night trying to follow your logic for this change, and I can’t still get it. I’m deeply sorry if the following lines seem like an insult at your capacity as designers, but I have to be completely honest, again I gain nothing by offend you guys who are pretty much volunteers, and work hard to give us a good moment. It seems like VL greatness was a casual result, or in other words, unintended. But aside being a great challenge, and require strong coordination and communication, on top of that it ACTUALLY PROMOTED CLASS VARIETY. *To all ppl who were asking for a hero/MM buff, you have no idea, how GREAT they were in the pre nerf VL* Yes I have seen a few(tbh just 2) comments about heros/mms were unable to kill the mobs due the hardskin. Guys you just didn’t found the key yet. Nls, buccs and shads were insufficient to actually clear the mobs, regardless of how strong the buccs or shads were, due their relation with crit hits. Im not going too in depth about the details, but I have to explain a bit of the “strategy” and how these demons made heros-MMs and even pally necessary. Since they were pretty much almost invincible, Heros used to take a while to clear them (still better than anyone else) and their main role was to not only kill them, but control them. Once they were controlled, MMs take the role of top dmg to those mobs, and help to clear them. To finish, there was moments were the was too many spawns at the map at the same time. That’s where paladins started to shine, since HH+ACB overperform brandish and PA. It was brilliant!!!!(unintendedly it seems) You pretty much NEDEED heros-MMs and pallys. Now, let’s go back to NLstory yaaaaaaay. This HAS to be changed even if you guys don’t change everything back(pls change it all back) If you reduce the hardskin debuff time, YOU HAVE TO BUFF the spanws from 6(4 currently) to 9-10. Or just change to what it was, cs reducing the spawns to 4 but just revert the hardskin duration doesn’t seems like a good idea. Goddamn, how we passed from a boss that required all jobs except for AMs and Drks(I will giv Drk Performance feedback later) to nlstory again…..
No major complaints, but what feedback led to anything other than golem hitboxes being changed? I've only gotten to attempt the boss 3 times since release so I maybe I'm lacking information here
Greetings to all, I would like to give the suggestion that for VL to be somewhat profitable, create a room where you can have an additional bonus for defeating the boss, almost similar to CWKPQ only with the LHC design and the same boxes in which you unlock the keys, use them to give CS/WS/HW10/NX and some important things, even a lower rate of chocolates and cakes to somewhat compensate for the effort, they can be 4 to 6 draw boxes for each player, only to be equitable that 4 rooms are created for 5 people each, from there the leader of each party will have to decide each portal where the bonus will be decided! I admire your effort and commitment but we can all give an opinion to learn and improve, att an admirer of this beautiful server, bye bye pros!
An idea I had that might be worth investigating to make larger runs feel beneficial would be some form of crafting component that each player could loot(Like Totems/Burning Energies) after 5-10 runs players could have enough mats to make some VL exclusive item or even greater items after like 30-50 clears.
I wanna share my 1st death from 1 week ago cause of a bizarre hit box. I would like a free ress next time ty. Spoiler: the impact on the ground killed me :v
I have been hosted 2x Pubic run (patch#82 ) (and went oblivion run x1 , rice run x1 , 2 practice run ) thx to those ppl who willing to ran with me 1st public run result:B2 90% NL/Sair: 6 SE: 3 Bucc: 8 Shad: 3 Warriors: 5 BS: 5 Spoiler: memberlist 2nd public run result:B2 43% NL/Sair: 5 SE: 3 Bucc: 9 Shad:0 Warriors: 8 Bs: 5 Spoiler: memberlist Rogue run result: Only team clear NL/Sair: 5 SE: 4 Bucc: 7 Shad: 3 Warriors: 7 BS: 4 The differnce between these 3 runs , I think is their amazing few death in total run also 4 stable(all alive in then end) archers and 17melees to make sure mobs can clean asap after update (#82.1) CVS run 1st clear after new patch NL/Sair: 8 SE: 4 Bucc: 4 Shad: 2 Warriors: 2 BS: 3 Spoiler: memberlist I hosted 2runs after new patch also 1st public run NL/Sair: 6 SE:5 Bucc:4 Shad: 5 Warriors :5 Bs: 5 result: B2 30% Spoiler: memberlist 2nd TEST run NL/Sair : 6 SE:4 Bucc: 7 Shad: 3 Warrios: 6 BS:4 result: Clear Spoiler: memberlist Our plan was : All stop attack and then let rusher rush mobs (melee team a and b will kill mobs, dps team keep do dps on VL) This plan was prepared for patch 82, but when we go test today , we find out mobs too ez (6>>4) , so we just yolo it. looks like we can decrease melee increase nl/sair to faster the run in the future. So I might think can revert mobs too 6 (or just add more hp too 4 atm) It is good to see Bishop/Hero/Mm are S tier in a boss content . (bm already op when hamstring auf ) Spoiler: video Recent changes 1.Demon Gargoyle Hardskin buff duration has been slightly reduced. this debuff let team without se can't clean mobs(#82), I think is a good change , not whole runs can keep all archers alive. ( crash and dc most annoy thing to let run fail) 2.Von Leon's banish skill cooldown has been slightly increased. I think staffs make this jail room is to prevent MULE story, not making VL strong. I got once b2b jail room when #82, I think is a good change . 3. A bug which resulted in more players than intended being banished to Aerial Prison by Von Leon was fixed Nice 4. Von Leon's summon skill will now summon 4 Demon Gargoyles instead of 6. I think can revert mobs back too 6 It is good to see Bishop/Hero/Mm/Dk are S tier in a boss content . (bm already op when hamstring auf ) Or gonna become nl sair haven 5. Changes were made to the Falling Golem attack to make affected areas easier to see. GOOD, might only stairs still weird hitbox 6. Crash issue need to be fix. Every run at least 5+ppl crash kinda hurt the run (if they are archers /bs even worser) Spoiler: errrr Prize I think if staffs want this to be 18man content , drops still too few Belt drops maybe increase too 6~8 , right now seriously too few same as other untradalbes Or rework the method to get untradable prize If 1 clear = get 1 proof collect proofs = trade ur own untradable (random belt and others) tradable items I don't think need to touch atm Adding a clear VL medal can be good also I'll make more feedback once I tried 18man clear 3Q for reading
First, I want to thank the staff/devs for bringing this exciting new content into royals! I really felt that royals needed this type of content. It's awesome to see the community rallying together to figure out how to beat this boss and I made a lot of new friends along the way. Here are some few thoughts from the 3 runs I've attempted so far (twice before the recent patch and one clear after the patch). I definitely like how the boss animations is clear so I can quickly know what attack he's about to do. The falling rock atk animation is more noticeable than the previous one. Before the falling rock animation was hard to see, now I like how there is a pillar of light to show where its about to fall. Every class now has to shuffle around and understand boss mechanics fairly well to survive. We definitely need more bosses like this rather than bosses where a majority of classes just hold 1 atk key and afk atk the boss to death. I actually like how the jail room warps less people now compared to before. Assuming everyone can clear room, this mechanic felt more of a range check because jail means less people atking/clearing mobs so less dmg output every 3-4mins. It will hurt weaker raid parties more than the stronger ones. I actually didn't like how the mobs got nerfed. It made raid parties absolutely depend on warriors/mm/shad/bm coordination. I think the previous settings were fine with 6 mobs per summon and heavy armor lasting a decent while. This single aspect made raid party composition something to seriously consider and plan out. I felt that the eye laser was underwhelming. Although the screen turning red was a cool feature, it wasn't as dangerous as I thought it would be. I remember watching people dodge it in GMS because it was an instant kill attack. One suggestion might be make the laser apply every skill debuff that isnt curable through acp(reverse/slow/stun/screen blind) you can maybe add a longer charge up time and range so everyone in the raid has to actually run far away to avoid the atk and follow up the laser atk with 3 guarantee falling rocks atks. The drops were interesting. I could definitely see people making some op belts with it in the future. Would it be possible though for everyone in the raid to get some sort of prize? Maybe purification tokens or some token system so that they can buy a parchment? Final thoughts. This boss is a lot of fun. I really like how every class has a vital role in the fight. Coordination and good mechanics is most important for a successful raid. Definitely consider reverting the mob change , maybe adding eye laser buff, and/or debuff duration increase? Running on sair was super fun and I recommend anyone thinking of party comp to consider bringing sairs into the raid! We aren't dependent on buffs compared to other classes so less buff mgmt headaches to worry about. Thank you again staff for this awesome boss! Spoiler: p.s. since we have a now duck animation while on ship, could we finally fix the issue where our boats keep sinking in aqua road??
I just wanna mention 2 changes I would make to the drops. 1) The ratio between belts and scrolls has to be adjusted, it makes more sense for VL to drop more scrolls than belts, since you need 4 scrolls per belt (assuming you don't WS). Right now, VL can drop less coin/scroll sets than belts, which doesn't make much sense to me. 2) On top of it, drops need to be increased in general, which not only means more belt sets, but also higher droprate of books/forging manuals. Even if I was running 10 man VL, I wouldn't be satisfied with my splits in the current state, unless the run was extremely lucky. This boss is very fun and well made, but I'd like to see it being more rewarding. Thanks staff for all the work you put in, appreciate you!
Thank you for the feedback thus far, keep it going. While the 30 man runs were definitely fun to watch and participate in for many of us, it is not what we ultimately had in mind for Von Leon. We're excited to see that players are really interested in a 30 player boss fight like we hoped you would be. However, we would like to stick to our 12-18 player VL design and reserve the 30 player fight for Pink Bean that has yet to come. When we planned out and designed Von Leon, our goal was to create a boss that requires 12 to 18 players. Staff currently consists of 17 persons. At the time we did most of the Von Leon testing and progress, we could not all participate, and were facing the same difficulties some of you might have right now. Finding timeslots for Von Leon (test) runs for a team spread all over the globe can be tricky. We did our best to release a well balanced boss for our goal of 12~18 players. Some of that had to be based on calculations, "nerfed" boss HP and "buffed" test characters. Obviously, it was a little too hard the way we initially released it for the amount of players we had in mind. I’m happy it was this way and it was not too easy right off the bat, although it made Von Leon look like a 30 man boss. From participating and watching Von Leon runs, we noticed two main aspects many players kept struggling with: The golem drop attack was a bit hard to see with so much happening on the screen, so we improved the indicator visuals. Currently, there is still a bug which makes it possible that it "misses" players due to their avoidability. Von Leon's accuracy is set to the highest value where it caps out, so we are still trying to look for a method to make it hit 100% of the time. Passive dodging skills, like Shadow Shifter or Guardian however, are meant to work against this attack. Even though some classes having this percent chance to dodge the golem attack, we don't believe players will actively risk that chance. The mob spawns felt too hard to handle for 12~18 players. Therefore we decided to nerf that aspect of the fight. Some feedbacks point out that the spawns are too easy now as we decided to try reducing the amount of Demon Gargoyles by 2 while we could also have reduced by just 1 or none at all, in addition to the reduced Hardskin duration. Keep in mind we do want to aim for this bossrun completion by 12-18 players, so if we conclude from more completed runs and feedback that the difficulty of these mobs has to go up again, the HP of Von Leon itself might need a nerf to offset that. The frequency of banish in the fight was slightly too high from our perspective, so we made it happen less often, as currently it can feel repetitive for a player to do. We do have other plans to combat that repetitiveness while keeping the current cooldown time. Since some of you wondered what bug we fixed for the Jail Banish skill, we have decided to give some insights and transparency here as well. The Jail Banish skill now correctly banishes 50% of the alive players. Prior to the fix, It used to banish 50% of the total people on the map. This included dead players and Game Master characters who were in hide mode too. Since those are excluded from actually being banished, the skill always affected more of the alive players than intended. Once we realized that was what was causing the extra players to be banished, we tried to watch the runs via streams whenever it was possible. We’ve heard your feedback about the laser attack being underwhelming, and hope the new effect adds more depth there. We‘ve considered obscuring less of the screen, but ultimately it’s an avoidable attack, so we decided not to and advise you to ensure you dodge it. We’ve also seen your ideas for Damage Reflect. In fact, we‘ve had the same during testing, but they are currently not possible to implement. Hopefully we will be able to set a delay between the skill animation and skill effect for Damage Reflect sometime in the future. This would be good for other bosses as well. As for the drops, we currently have no plans to adjust them. There are many untradables to be shared and we would like to see how the tradable market of the drops will develop as well. We feel like the loot hasn't settled with the parties to a meta yet.
Just a honest thought: You can revert some of the changes people are asking for and the boss will still remain possible for 18man parties.
Nice to see Shadow Shifter will bail out shads/nls 30% of the time on golems but BM's have to resort to strafe on b3 and summons. That's good game balance. Why you don't make DR behave differently for BMs is beyond me. DR is not a new concept. Anyways fun boss, thanks.
4-5 man for HT main body > 2.1b hp. Est. 50mins. Do note people don't normally apple throughout the entire that HT, and you literally have 100% uptime hitting. Vs 12-18 man for VL (ideally), with so much more chaos and downtime in attacking (I'd say at least down to about 80% attacking efficiency maximum), mind you maximum is ideal getgud smooth af situation which in reality won't be achieved mostly, for 6.3b hp (x3 HT), and we're expected to down it in... 1hour? Spoiler: HUH? doesn't add up to me Incoming surge in demand for apples/pops I guess?
