Free Market Spot AFK/Camp/Hog/Selling Shenanigans

I cannot confirm this, the report I got was that there's a suspect shop botter. But BoredXZ (or maybe his friends) told me he obtained the spot after server check. This was probably part of my misjudgement, but nevertheless, it doesn't immediately make him not a suspect just because the server just went live.

 

BoredXZ was the firs tot grab it as soon as a server reset, in fact, he had a perm shop opened right near it. I assume he wanted to share the spot with friends which is a common and normal thing to do.

 

Correct, he cannot accuse them as FM botters. The response should therefore not be "this guy deserves to be disconnected". It is as simple as that.

Staff can investigate upon their discretion for any claim that they feel is believable. However, if the situation is nigh impossible to prove, I don't think staff should be placed a position where they feel obliged to do something (dc / ban / threaten / whatever else). I can just as easily say, "Dave Deviluke is hacking in _____ map" in the shoutbox and sure, a GM will be alerted to go and check on where you are but if there is no evidence that you are hacking at that point in time and if I don't have video/screenshot proof of such, they should not feel obliged to take some sort of action or attempt to elicit a response from you. You should be left alone, because there is no proof for said accusation.

I thought my reasoning is reasonably clear. Feel free to discuss if you think otherwise.

 

Just my 2cents about this debate.

In the name of the holly cheeseburger. Stop trying to make Shop hogging a happen. Its never going to happen.

"Hogging" Isn't a thing. Have you ever tried to reset a spot or simply give one to your friend while you have around 5-10 people on it? The simple solution is to wait until most of them give up. It can take a few minutes to a few hours, depending on the other player's dedication to getting your unopened spot or the FM your shop is placed. The way I see it, hogging is such a general term that can be misconstructed by the newer and impressionable players, so I would really love to never see it being used ever again especially by a gm. If you use your hands (or feet, I really don't judge) to get a spot, it's yours for the remaining of the amount of time of your permit or until you decide to drop it.

I hope staff members are not just roaming around the FM, seeing what player didn't open their permit yet and disconnecting them (I am sure they have better things to do) because if that player is a bot there are better ways to deal with it, such as like Kai mentioned waiting for a response and then teleporting them to an empty FM to see if he has automatically opened a new spot. That's just how I have seen gms dealing with those types of situations when the other players report foul play.

Now for a more important topic which I didn't see addressed enough. Fm shop botters&Automatic logins.

As for shop botters, my only concern is that the staff really don't have the tools to detect this type of software or simply the experience with the permit mechanics and FM mentality in general, so they are forced to rely on their judgment- therefor it would be case by case 99% of the time, Unlike other serious offenses. So far the best way to catch shop botters is inaction is usually you dropping your shop while having screenshots of a player camping your spot for a long period of time and then getting it despite following the buddy method, or have a gm near you to teleport them to an empty FM to see if they open a shop, but most of us don't have that luxury of having a staff member open to verify your claims on the spot.

I clearly remember a year back our reports have been dismissed due to the lack of ability to analyze the footage correctly, or the sheer understanding speed of normal human reaction when a shop drops. Those same players still play while clearly breaking the server rules. But there is nothing much you can do without valid evidence which is hard to supply if the software is undetectable or hasn't been familiarized by staff members.

Yesterday I finally saw a successful ban for a shop botter. I believe staff would get better and sharper with dealing with this type of robotic behavior and just improve from now on with the way they deal with FM botters.

It's differently a step in the right direction and hopefully, this thread will get enough attention for the Staff to take this offense as seriously as macro botting, Glitch abuse and etc. Perhaps inspire them to finally be able to develop a way to trace this software. Just because its harder to detect or catch in action, doesn't mean it should be ignored.

 

Yes I'm aware, and I appreciate you providing the screenshot. But that screenshot doesn't really change anything at all, "potentially" is not a justifiable reason to DC him. As explained on my prior posts and Joez's posts. Again this just follows the guilty until proven innocent premise.

 

Correct.

 

My take on this FM shenanigan

• Suspected botter trying to steal FM spot=calls for GM intervention if they are suspicious, d/c if no response
• Spot hogger=your personal opinion doesn't matter here, go by T&C. They can hog that spot however long they want as long as they got it through legitimate mean.

 

I actually did respond to him, but I was forced to open the shop up anyways.

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with this premise in general and in particular not in this situation.


Also, the screenshot in the above post deserves explanation. It directly contradicts what you said in your earlier post.

 

Please don't DC already-existing fm shops after 30s afk checks. Sometimes, you can be holding the spot for someone else or you can be waiting for people to simply go away (since permits open faster than hired merchants). There can be so many reasons for holding a spot, with or without the store publicly opened, that dcing someone for "hogging" or potentially botted leads to more harm than good.

DCing (or warping a few inches away) potential afk botters under an already set up shop seems fine, though

 

Because afk checks are ridiculous and it forces players to be at their computer constantly staring at their screen in case of an afk check. Also please clarify this strawman argument I'm making, I'm not the one accusing anybody of attacking Kai, you are. Also putting me at a position where I seem to be at side with botters is a straw man argument. Telling Kai he is in the wrong and giving my piece of why it is, is not attacking.

You're coming close to answering your own question, GMs shouldn't interfere without reliable proof.

 

I hate how some LAME mechanics are "just part of the game" but other LAME mechanics that dont benefit certain people get different views. IDC because I rarely set up a store but its just something to think about...

 

Lmao this puts a whole new perspective into this thread. Why is this poor guy threatened to open his store???? HE LITERALLY WHISPERED TO YOU HOLY SHIT.

Let him set his store however he wants! He isn't afk if he's whispering you. Jesus fucking christ.

 

Well, that is not reasonable. Kai.

 

Sure. BoredXZ provided a screenshot that is taken out of context, again. Before he took that screenshot, there was a 30s timer which I had set up. I took it down the moment I saw his respond. Hope that clears thing up.

I understand where you're coming from. I felt the same. But like I said, we sometimes have to err on the side of caution. I'm not sure what else I can say.

 

That is how the current FM works to begin with. Just because you logged in after someone else and didn't manage to get a spot of your choice does not mean the person who got there before you is botting / hacking / using illegal means.

Again, as I've pointed out already, spot 'hogging' and spot stealing are two different things. Spot hogging can be an end result of stealing a spot (which it wasn't in this case) but in itself is not against the TnCs.

Spot stealing may be a breach of the TnCs if the person used an illegal third-party software to do so. This is the only situation that is difficult to prove and if players like xTaiga said have the luxury of readily available staff they can in theory check if people camping on afk stores are botters or not at the time of them deciding to reset their shop.

 

I will be scared to play this game anymore if I met this situation.

Next time if I hold fm spot for friends, or Want to wait other campers leave or they will steal mine spot , I need to reply gm if got ppl report me for 0 proof , even though I afking?