HELLO??? WHY DELETE MINE POST ! WAE WHY THIS GUY ALLOWED TO CALLOUT PEOPLE THEN? don't tell me its about reasonable input when there are posts in this thread that literally have 0 relevancy to this thread's topic whatsoever, at least mine was referencing similar incidents that happened to certain individuals in the past .
Hello everyone. This is a joint statement from the Staff as a whole. While we all have our personal feelings as players in our own right, this will be as objective as possible. Reverting Illegitimate Trades There are cases where illegitimate transactions were reverted. However, we must note that the number of such cases pales in comparison to those which are not reverted. Yes, we acknowledge there is a glaring inconsistency and ongoing issue here. It is not feasible to set a precedent by reverting some transactions and leaving others untouched as going back through history and reverting all illegitimate trades in the past is an impossible task. If we look to the future, what follows, namely consistency, fairness, and damage cleanup, is a nightmarish workload which cannot realistically be kept up at this time. This is due to many complicated factors, which unfortunately we cannot share. Some of these factors explain why this seemingly simple situation is, well, not so simple. None of us feel good about leaving our player base in the dark about such information, but it is imperative that sensitive information remain confidential, particularly pertaining to RWT investigations. The Future: Preventative Measures Currently, RWT catching is reactive. Suspicious activity is reported, and an investigation follows (a sincere thank you to all the diligent players making reports.) Further, auto ban is an ever improving endeavor toward eliminating and reducing hackers, which fuel the RWT economy. We are hoping in the next few months that this will improve significantly. Major backend infrastructure (almost a complete overhaul) is being developed to provide more staff with more tools. These tools will be useful for everything from catching hackers, detecting RWT, and investigating a myriad of other potential issues. Not only will they improve manual detection of illegitimate behavior, but we will also have a vastly improved system for automated detection. These things take immense time and care to implement, but we can assure you that they are of the highest priority. A Bit of Patience: A Message From The Community Managers We understand that there have been many soontm over the years, and yet again it is unavoidable in this post. But as players who have recently joined as Community Managers we've had the chance to hold discussions with all members of staff, we can very much assure you that all the important questions are asked and discussed. The admins and developers have been accommodating and have taken the time to explain to us in detail the complications of these situations. We are constantly reading and listening to the concerns, many of which we share, and we have a vested interest in a positive outcome for everyone. The only promise that we can make is that everyone is very hard at work to improve the server, especially in this regard. We sincerely ask for your patience in these matters as we work toward a better tomorrow for the server. Thank you to you all who care deeply about our community and the game as a whole.
I see roany's profits off this ban as abusive, but nothing should be done to correct it. It is simply too much effort and hassle for GMs to revert every single trade. In this case, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. The focus should be on catching RWTers earlier in the game life cycle so that this kind of situation occurs much less frequently. So this means that roany will end up profiting up to 40b on this alleged RWTer. Whether or not the player benefiting off this type of transaction was in cahoots with the RWTer, we simply can't know without evidence.
[actual reasonable input] Thank you for taking the time to engage with the community! I understand that there are serious barriers to reverting real-world trades--from consistency, to complexity, to the sheer volume of it all. I was also on Staff, so I do have a glimpse into how deceptively intensive this task actually is. However, given that Staff have previously engaged in this practice, could you clarify for the community whether this response essentially means that Staff will no longer engage in this practice from this point forward? Or by mentioning that it's merely unfeasible "at this time" in particular, are Staff considering engaging in this practice at some point in the future? To be perfectly honest, real-world trade is not something that will ever cease to exist in this server. No amount of Karven's enormous brainpower can possibly code a mechanism to fully eliminate it. While we're all excited for these new tools that will immensely help limit the amount of real-world trade, I believe we're also hoping for the core issue of this thread to be fully addressed: not the initial injection of real-world trade into our economy, but the continued presence of real-world trade within our economy. At the heart of real-world trade is the principle of fairness, the principle that players in this community should earn what they enjoy. We can always count on Staff to continuously make an active effort to eliminate this initial injection of real-world trade. But at this point in time, we're not sure Staff holds the same stance towards the continued presence of real-world trade. And the fact of the matter is, even if players do not actively engage in real-world trade themselves we can clearly see that they may unfairly benefit from real-world trade nevertheless. Since this community loves to make comparisons to real-world laws, property law in the United States holds that the police may seize and reasonable compensate the purchase of any items that originated through theft or fraud (such as stolen paintings from a museum). This is rooted in the "Windfall Principle," in which people shouldn't be entitled to claim something that they simply happened upon through sheer force of luck. However, in no world can any law be enforced fully effectively and consistently. Obviously, this server is no exception. So for the sake of clarity, I just want to know if the community can interpret this response to mean that Staff have actively decided to refrain from reverting all real-world trades from this point forward. And I just want to emphasize that I'm not asking this to pick an argument or to imply anything even remotely negative about the work that you all do. I definitely recognize your explanations and justifications, and I personally find them to be reasonable. But I do also think that this information would be important in shaping the progress of this community.
gotta love being on the side that does not care what happens to the items once the trade is complete.
It's nice to see that profiting 40B from a "future promise" to a known RWTer does not in any way cast suspicion on that future promise being fulfilled outside of the game. People have been permanently banned on much less evidence than that.
As others have noted and we've acknowledged, trades involving illegitimate items have been reverted in the past. However, it is important to note the complexity which can arise from these situations. The number of RWT cases resulting in a revert is relatively insignificant compared to the general number of cases. So, while there is precedent, it cannot be applied in a broad sense, and discretion will always be required. Let us clarify the following statement in our initial response. This statement may give the reader the impression that what is lacking is man-power, i.e., the need to have more Admins. This is partially true; the addition of Admins would certainly help tackle the time-sensitive aspects of RWT. However, the amount of trust implicitly required for this role is astronomical and takes time to cultivate. It is possible to revert some trades, as we've seen, but there are too many variables. A commitment to reverting illegitimate transactions in general is impossible. We acknowledge that it is a difficult ask of our community to understand this, given the hidden details. Yes, the truth is RWT will never cease to exist. It exists everywhere in the online gaming space, i.e. it is not unique to MapleRoyals. Even if all hackers were to disappear over night, there would still be RWT, albeit to a significantly less degree. Indeed, there is no denying that the economy is poisoned by RWT and hacked items, and it is a problem that continues to plague the server. As for our stance, many of us on staff are active players ourselves, and feel the detrimental effects of illegitimacy and unfair gain not just on the economy, but on the mentality, motivation, and feelings of the player base. There is no instant cure. Remedying this will take time, patience, new tools and methods, new content, and so on. This is actively discussed and is a concern of, again, the highest priority. This was already touched on earlier, but here's further clarification. The staff have not actively decided to refrain from reverting all RWT from this point forward. Rather, we are doing the absolute best we can do with the tools available to us at this time and the circumstances that come with each case. We understand the players' frustration, sincerely, however these complications come with the nature of the subject at hand. We are confident that many aspects of these issues, from detecting rule breaking to enforcing it, will improve significantly in the future. MapleRoyals has almost 9 years of history under its belt. The millions of hours playtime, hard work, and dedication that have been put into the server by players and volunteers alike are not lost on anyone. We strive to keep the server alive and well into the foreseeable future, and the integrity of the game is always a high priority.
Perhaps i'm alittle slow on the pickup/i'm misunderstanding something/i'm stupid. Question #1 Are players right to conclude that the most cost efficient way for progression. Players to actively seek out for distributors from smega/friends for cheap perfect weaps/wa gears upgrade and make such purchases with their legitimately earned mesos. Yet , there's always that foolproof excuse of saying, "How would I know his a distributor/RWTer?" Question #2 Are players right to conclude that there's a new additional way of mesos making via merching. Players should resell the same gears bought from a distributor at a cheap price to rich players/RWTers at a higher margin to make profit. I've seen cases of actual distributors coming into the game, selling his 19/95 at 50bil, and whoever have mesos on hand will make that 10bil~15bil profit, are we going to allow that? Players are greedy, asking players nicely, "you should report them before purchase" is just not logical especially with a good history of players that have already been doing it. Question #3 There is no current rule in our T&C of any sort of punishments on regards to "Intentionally benefitting from a RWTer". If "not allowed" is the answer to question #1 & #2, will it even be feasible heck even possible to add a rule to prevent users from making such benefits? All these are currently a non-reportable offense, neither a nonreversible scenario as well, so for players concerned, i believe the gear you've obtained is very safe. Question #4 Should MapleRoyals continue to allow such activity to continue on? Benefitting from hackers is not allowed, yet benefitting from rwter/distributors is? Because we all know that its a fact that there will eventually more 27~35wa cape / 30wa+ socks out there in the market that can be easily created by distributors. Where are ALL those 19/95 even coming from wtf. I sincerely hope for a clear Yes/No answer. Having the new community managers are great, at least i'm now confident that these question will be quickly replied, than ignored. So, what we see here has always been a grey area of profit and probably the T&C, as much as possible with this thread I'd like this to be made clear. Yes? Great. You guys know what to do from here on. No? Then what should player do when we see these scenarios happening, and is there a guideline for us to follow to make the report? What will be the punishment?
Not only are you dishonest, you are a cheater too. and it's funny that you are here pretending otherwise. Too bad i'm gonna expose you. Look what i dug up Sure it's not evidence that can get you banned, but this is for the community so they can see you for the phony you are. let the community be the judge on whether to believe Nessi's words or Raony's words. note - i had permission from nessi to share this. also, i have no reason to be salty about anything related to this game since i don't play it anymore.
All these talk about buying from RWTer Makes me wonder how do u even know that he is one to begin with ? Lets say i would like to buy some item thst is 5b or more Do i do some research b4 even taking the trade? Example who is he where he come from how he make this item How he make his mesos do i even do the trade immediately if i know its worth it ? If so I must fear for my live when buying things thats is in the ? Taking SS and and doing “research” b4 doing anything How do i even know its from a rwter or hacker once b4 ?
guys like kdt said how the hell u want this items gone while if i dont know if i buy from RWTer half of the godly stuffs in this server sold by rwters i am pretty sure soo if u want this stuff gone half server will be gone you whould enjoy playing alone cause for example if any of my gear will ever be gone after i worked so hard and then i find out that the guy i bought my gear from was RWTer soo what the hell i can do thats not my problem that guy was rwter thats my point i do agree every RWTer should be banned but not punish other players who work legit and hard to get their own stuff
There is, at least to me, a marked difference between buying e.g. an 18 attack cape for ~22-23b (current market price according to price guide) by paying in full (with WS/CS + B-coins) despite not knowing - or even being able to assess - its provenance, compared to buying a 23 attack cape (~100b) by giving the seller a 20 attack cape (~40b) and incurring a debt of 60b "to be paid later".
fwiw, my 2¢, i believe any duped/hacked items should be removed as soon as possible going forward. refund the player. if additional staff is needed so be it, it needs to be the norm. if anti hack measures are ramping up, this should get easier and easier to enforce
