But John's response in Short's appeal implies that it is against the rules... Which brings us back to the point that either various Staff members seem to have different interpretations on the issue or John just didn't put much thought into that specific response before replying to him.
The player was forced to leave because he was asked to by a GM, which if you have read the T&C you would have read this: "Players agree that Game Masters and Administrators ("GMs") have ultimate discretion and authority in applying, construing, interpreting, acting or omitting of the Game Use & Restrictions ("Rules") based on the evidence obtained from any source." Which im pretty sure means that if you are asked to do something by a GM, you should abide to it. He was asked to leave the map by John and he did, but then he made the dumb choice to come back when John was still there in hide. You could argue Johns reply of saying "No you cannot." to the question " so im not allowed to sit on a rope" as misleading but im sure if you look at the bigger picture of the actual matter it was Shorts own fault for even going back to the original map. Why add fuel to the fire if you are clearly not wanted? Also dont forget that he handles more than 1 appeal at a time from what i have seen, so im sure a little bit of bluntness here or there is not always intended, especially when your juggling more than one appeal, to help us.
This is true. He did leave on his own after you came and asked him. I asked him several times and he refused, which is why I even called you in the first @LonelyCloud I left and I was never removed by force. He just told me "last warning" and I changed channel. I then proceeded to go through every channel saying "Need HS? Whisper me" as a fast way of finding a new party. I might've done this in that channel aswell, but I never did anything at all to bother those players in the map. I believe the rules should be the same to every player, and if a GM asks one player to leave the map for no reason, why shouldn't everyone else be treated this way too? In my opinion not a single player should ever be asked by a mapowner nor a GM to leave a map for no reason at all, if they do not harass the mapowner. Which I clearly did not.
You were given an ultimatum by john, even better, you willingly left yet you still came back, I'm sure you did swap channels to find a party but why wouldn't you just skip the one you had an altercation in? I'm pretty sure if i was asked to leave i would know what channel it was and wouldn't go back trying to ask if i could HS the person that was reporting me.......right? Yes most people are going to stand with you on this matter, and i am actually one of them, being asked to leave is plain stupid in my opinion as well, but if i was asked to leave by a player i would do it, because what is the point of arguing, it wastes my time, their time and potentially a GM's time to come an sort out what is literally pointless. I also wouldn't make multiple threads against people on an issue i was "punished" for which looks to be out of spite if anything, just to prove a point. And yes you will get a different answer from nearly every GM, because they are not sheep, they are all separate people with separate beliefs, and ideals. You unfortunately might have caught John "on a bad day". Read the responses to the other GM's as well, some ask people to leave because of certain reasons to, as said above; Door d/cing does happen and it is annoying.
I agree that it might seem pointless to stay. But all Ulu 2 maps are crowded these days, and waiting patiently for a map to be free should be allowed. I get that all GMs are not the same, and they have different opinions and way to take care of things. But they should all follow the same rules, correct? I mean I suppose all GMs can agree that hacking isn't allowed. This should be no different. Either it's allowed or it's not. The fact that it isn't allowed for some people is just ridiculous.
Check myself? You know what, the arrogance of your statement is hilarious but thats what I expect coming from a person who takes this game so seriously. My statement saying it was petty was coming from the fact that this community shouldn't feel they're entitled or think they "own" maps, because this is everyones server. It isn't yours, so why would you sell it?
Im sure they do all follow the same rules, the way the rules are enforced may be different from GM to GM, but the punishment is always the same for each individual that does break a rule. You are taking it out of context way to much. Yes im 100% sure all "current" (f3) GM's will agree that hacking is not allowed. And results in a permanent ban. But from what i have read, you did not receive a ban as you did not break a rule. If im also not mistaken YOU ~gm'd for help because someone said they were going to report you, so why would you ask for help, and then try to argue with the GM because you obviously didn't get the response you were looking for? He clearly tried to solve the issue as simply as possible, which was asking you to leave a map that was not owned by you. I don't think being asked to leave a map by a GM could even be considered a punishment. You keep bringing up you were just sitting on a rope or waiting patiently, but you were clearly being active in chat from what John has already said. It also isn't allowed for some and not for others, you just happened to have been asked to leave because the person obviously didn't like the fact an active player was sitting in their map and they didn't want you there talking to them which is fair, right? If they see it as you harassing them while they are leeching someone, then obviously they dont want you to talk to them
I feel like John was being very clear with what is apparently not allowed though. And I think that what John said is not allowed, should definitely be allowed. I could have made my original post shorter byjust saying that. Just one man's opinion!
Personally i do not think that if a map owner feels disrupted by other players in the map then other players are obliged to leave or risk being banned for harrassment (because he is reported, gm arrives and ask him to leave but he refuse to do so because he hasn't actually done anything), when the other players are doing nothing that may disrupt the killing/looting of the map owner, other than map owner being paranoid himself. I dont think talking, jumping around in a map can be disruptive or is a kind of harrassment at all. Just because a mapowner fears losing the map to other players waiting in the map thus making other players 'harrassing' the mapowner and GM is involved to remove the player is just plain wrong. And regarding the so called 'cat and mouse game' between gm and player is just silly, we have a thingy called screen shot, or the built in scroll lock as SS in maplestory. It's not hard for a player to gather KS/Looting evidence, so an afk player shouldn't, at all, be removed merely because the mapowner is accusing him of doing so but being not able to produce any sort of evidence.
Too bad I hate everyone and the entire Victoria Island is owned by me ~mapowner style. Just kidding, we shouldn't be petty that is just so... childish, and from what I gather most people on this server seem to be at the very least 15 to way up there, so can we just all get along and make the community more wholesome and more welcoming. I can't believe we actually needed an entire thread on this subject. </3 Still I love you all the same, feel free to come find me any day and take my map away from me, I don't need it usually, and I love a new pace of scenery. ^_^
@Brandon Adkins Not really.. @galbixd doesn't take this game that seriously at all since he doesn't play often and could care less. Simply stating the rules and analyzing the prior arguments/comments.. idk why that translates into him "taking this game seriously".
People who are only here to report people for petty offences shouldn't be playing a game. People like these are those who divide communities.
Some people just wake up looking for something to get their jimmies in a bunch over. I go out of my way to avoid them in games and IRL
This is very unfortunate (if true). However, the person that was banned also was guilty by acting out and saying the things they did. Let's face it, trolls and baiters are going to exist anywhere where there's a community bound by some sort of rules and guidelines. Fortunately, a case like this is more the exception than the standard.
I believe if there is evidence that it was set up to get someone banned on purpose, then both people would be banned (possibly) because it was basically a set up. Either way, the person who responded badly would be banned because they could have just walked away and not taken the bait. Ultimately, they broke a rule whether it was incited or not.
Of course he could have tackled the situation much better, and of course i'm providing very limited information, but the term "Ban-baiting" RonyPony himself admitted to be doing, really hit me on a bad nerve. How would the situation have looked if slainbysnail wouldn't have used profanity? Would his way of acting out then not have gotten him banned? My point is that while using profanity in means of anger/resentment agaisnt another person is bad, i don't think that profanity is directly tied to harassment, which in my opinion is worse than profanity itself. A good low-life troll will know the way around. But i digress. We don't know how long Rony "Ban-baited" or to put it in another way "Subliminally harrased" slainbysnail, which is why i'm not making a report about this, rather a feedback to let you know that this is going on. Right now. As a person who thinks the line still could be raised for reports, i'm gonna acknowledge the fact that i don't have enough evidence, and for this reason you can believe what you want. However, if i did............ "cue the intense metal song about justice" YOU BETTER WATCH YOUR BACK. THERE IS A BULLET WITH YOUR NAME ON IT!!!! *dreams on*
You're right, the case really shouldn't have been a ban for harassment but rather for violation of this rule: Transmit any content that is unlawful, harassing, vulgar, obscene, hateful, fraudulent, threatening, abusive, libelous, defamatory, sexually explicit, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable, or that could be deemed to be stalking or constitute an invasion of a right of privacy of another person. Punishment: 1st offence - 3 day ban, 2nd offence - 7 day ban, 3rd offence - permanent ban I have edited my report abuse post appropriately. I don't think it's really proper for me to give you answers to your hypotheticals, as I'm sure you can understand, because it really depends on each case and that is why not every case is open and shut with a clear cut resolution. You mentioned you think the line could still be raised even higher for reports. What do you have in mind? If you don't share, we'll never know (or we've forgotten which if you know me personally, you know is very likely)
The first thing i have in mind. (DISCLAIMER : I aint no lawyer so if i've misunderstood some of the rules just simply correct me and i'll change my views. x) ) First thing is mainly regarding profanity, as i joined recently i did not know that profanity was strictly prohibited, i'm totally okay with this rule. However, from what i've heard there are people who simply got banned for using profanity in public, not directly targeted to offend anyone, but just because that's how they roll. I think this is wrong. Why do i think this is wrong? Because i think the "offender" deserves a chance to redeem himself from facing punishment. If someone gets offended by a word not directly targeted at them, he should not immediately resort to reporting. Instead, the reporter or "victim" should be required to confront the offender and attempt to reconcile with him/her first, if the offender acknowledges his mistakes and apologizes for his actions, there is no reason to get the GMs involved. However, if the opposite happens, then i believe it would be okay to resort to reporting the offender. My impression of the current "rule-model" is that it's flawed and it promotes distrust and it rewards bad people with bad intentions, and i think some small fine-tuning would really make for bigger, positive changes down the road. Summed up for TL DR Defeat revenge reports, by requiring evidence of reconcillation attempts. (If someone offends you without intentions to do so, but you only wanna solve it through revenge..... there is something wrong with you <_<) If you have the nuts to report someone, you should very well have the nuts to confront them aswell.
