While I really like Lion Heart Content and understand the rational of the 1 hour time, I find the current implementation doesn't provide a very pleasant experience. 1. 1 Hour Hard Limit Having only 60 minutes a day for the whole castle is extremely frustrating, especially for players who are left behind in the earlier portions. Players who have progress much further ahead have to make a difficult decision, to either sacrifice their previous 60 minutes limit to help other players or use it for themselves to try to progress further into the content. This is not seen in Time of Temple or Ellin Forest Questline, which do not have such a limit. Which encouraging players to help those who are left behind without getting heavily penalised. 2. Unequal Time The above problem also leads some players might have unequal time left in the castle, either because they were helping another player or they couldn't commit for that ''run''. Which lead to some players to have unequal time. This can be annoying for party organisers/members to ponder to either take the player, leave or wait. (Similar to Dojo or the pain of party organiser to find replacement player for next expedition run.) 3. Lack of Incentives (Minor) There is not really a strong incentives for players who progress further to go back the earlier stages. I have not fully think this solution thoroughly so feel free to critique. Instead of the 1 hour hard limit, I think we could opt for an arrangement similar to current expedition system or even a Monster Park like system. Which you are given a single try to try to clear the dungeon, you have to commit in this run or your tries will be wasted similar to how we need to wait for the server reset APQ/expedition counter, which will address players who can't commit the run and unequal time. Next, maybe each area can have it's own separated time restriction, coupon or mentorship programme. So players won't be penalise helping new or players who started late, and still preserved their one hour for their current stage. This could be no experience gain and also not potion use, your timer is paused if the player you are partying is from an earlier stage until you have both reach the same stage.
So basically issues addressed was 1) The timer made the place pretty dead due to a perceived view that the place is only a limit. And yes, not many people like that limit and i have personally spoken to people in my guild and buddies list that will NOT join until the timer is removed 2) Lack of people joining - can be formed with a party finder - but then again, has royals ever needed a party finder with an abundance of Smega? Or is something else the issue hindering people or disincentivizing people to not smega? 3) Rewards are great, not sure how great yet as no one has explored it, and that is probably the issue as no one can explore it? (by no one, i am including people who dont use forums which easily form 50% of my guild or buddy list) 4) The "expedition" is likened to that of a normal boss run in terms of monetary rewards. Address issues 1) and 2) before 3) or 4) can be tackled. IMO, the timer is just the main source of disinterest in LHC and although @Kenny your points are valid where , the exp is only good if people dont sell leech there and legitimately have a 6 man active squad (not sure about meso wise cuz no data on that) but why would opening up a high end content area where it is locked behind a mob level wall (so lv135 can't just go in to the last map and leech-2-win) be a concern? The exp for ToT is fantastic if you have the proper mages at the right map, but then again, i dont think people go there to sell leech. If you are indeed worried about mesos being a concern, the other way i see if (from an outside player PoV) is to limit the exchange reward to x times a day and removing the timer. X = number of reasonable times where you can get the loot from the mob in 60 minutes). In that way, you are incentivizing people to go there and trade in once a day (hence touching that map at the very least). Besides the loot is already limited to untradeable. (you can make it mage immune if you want, i dont think anyone will be concerned about that (similar to elin forest). Hope staff can seriously reconsider these points as the game isn't exactly in a good spot (if you know what i mean)...
Honestly, is having too much exp an issue? I dont mean it in a rude manner but if the loot exchange quest can be adjusted to a limit, then the only "issue" with LHC would be the exp. But then again, these are really tanky mobs that require you to have a full party to go in an grind, and i legit mean grind, not just stand on a flat surface and hit shaolin monks. If the rate of exp gained is comparable to shao, i would be in favour no matter what, as you still require a full 6 man party to hit the mobs (maybe 5 with HS, not sure how good tho cuz party exp seems better). It is still better than a muling meta that requires 2 person (even 1) to fight Shao? Like which is the lesser evil that staff wants? A full party of 6 with exp being = or > than shao or solo/duo shao? And yes, shao is only once per day vs a ordinary map. But if a grinding team game rewards you for grinding in a team, should that be taken away or "revised"? I'll leave it up to the staff to debate on that, but seeing how many people are against it and it being just released. Honestly good luck to finding more people even with a team finder tbh.
One thing I like from grinding is that you're not in the same rush as bossing, and you can take a little rest, hang off on a rope for a while or just chill and chat while grinding coz there are no buyers, no timer, no boss burning your PE. What's so wrong about grinding all day with friends/randoms and make some new friends while on it? With a timer is just the same, everybody just rushing it/no talk coz the timer is finishing. If you still want to keep the timer, then it should be a separate timer for each area so we can help each other without losing our 60 mins in the way of helping a friend.
I normally expect smegas to say that they have their full time, and when I meet I go with them, and so we all meet the hour, and as the song says happy all 4, we are happy all 6, haha greetings
As far as I know, exp isn't as good as shao. Even with a full team using stoppers and apples. I had the chance to find a whole party two days ago and we were all willing to spend apples during the time just to know how good the exp could be. While the exp is amazing for a party grind (which is what we all expected), it's just not as good as shaolin/duo krex. BUT it is a really good alternative. Also being a real party of 6 active people with no mule at all was the best nostalgic experience I had in royals for a loooong time. But again, try finding 5 more people to join lhc with full timer. Nearly hopeless
Do you remember how much exp you gained in total? In my test session we didn’t Apple and got over 150m exp which is like 3 Shaos (which would be 30 mins if you could do him 3 times in a row). So it seems to be half the exp/time as shao but 3x more exp in total per day. Since shao is a 10 minute high exp Boss it shouldn’t be compare to him and rather to the most common exp boss which Is Krex I think. It’s been some time since I did Duo krex but if I remember correctly it was like ~50m exp in 30min on gizer. Assuming that LHC should be 1.5x as good as krex. i don’t have any data for Appling though
If this fails to make it easier to form parties it will just end up killing LHC entirely. Changing the Quest to kill x amount of monsters compared to loot y etc might fix the time one need to help friends catch up while not changing anything for solo grinders. It will promote the party play even more.
Itll be easier to make parties when you can go to the maps whenever you want and grind. A lot of people (myself included) arent even touching the content because of the timer. On GMS it was very normal for people to come in join for an hour and leave-there was always more people willing to join in. If the goal is to make party play more viable and encourage party play in general, this was a terrible way to do it. I dont know. Telling me when and i can and cant grind in a map is the antithesis of what grinding and maple is supposed to be.
Well I can see why some content is gatekept/limited, and why devs would want it to be. Because this is special higher level content, unlike other areas, I think devs wanted this to be a feast rather than a 24 hour all you can eat buffet. 1-2 hours a day grinding, and with six other people is a commitment still, and other grinding areas have improved as well because of the party buff updates. I'm inclined to think the timer could go up a little bit with feedback, but not until after the entirety of the content is available and folks have experienced it. For a ton of meta/problematic reasons though, I do appreciate and really respect the conviction to make it the way it is, it firmly reduces leeching/muling/multiclienting, puts in stoplights so folks can't zoom level-ups, and rewards party play. I don't know the full scale of the exchange quest but it's touted as being very profitable, although I think folks would maybe rather the LHC mobs have a small chance to drop ws/cs frags or something valuable independent of the exq RNG Perhaps with party finder, the full content released, easier travel like nutleaf has suggested, and like I suggested earlier, if you have completed an area you get bonus exp if you go back and fight lower level mobs so help new parties advance, and promote more cross area grinding, and a bit extra time, maybe 1.5 hours, it could be worthwhile. The problem with limitless play though is it means you would still need six active people to maximize it, and any longer than an hour can be difficult to wrangle those conditions, timer or not. I know I'm being devil's advocate (because yes infinite time would be cool) but I appreciate the greater meta merits of the mechanics devs implemented here to reinforce healthier server playstyles overall, even though it feels very gimmicky and gated now
I mean... how is it any different than any other grinding spot? If we scrap the timer it gives you the time to play while people get there, if people leave you can find more without you wasting the small amount of time you have left. No amount of team finder and other incentives will fix the difficulty of finding players/other issues inherent with arbritrily gating how long you can use the content. If someone doesnt have a group of friends that are willing to grind out for 4 hours (or whatever) thats okay, itll come in time if youre proactive about it, but no reason to harm groups who do who might only be able to play a couple times a week- we arent in middleachool anymore.
The difference would be the exp gain. I suppose the way LHC is now is to think of it as a PQ like cwk than a grind spot. But we'll see
... it shouldnt be tho. It was and is supposed to be a grinding spot.. a great one after years with leafre and other spots which barely filled the gaps in late game. One that rewarded full parties with mobs that needed full parties to take down efficiently. It was fucking amazing. It promoted party play, tho in GMS in a good guild it was never a problem to begin with, its sorely needed here. If the fear was exp it should have been tuned down. Theres a fuck ton of room between current "diverse content" and bossing... Are we going to start putting limits on ulu and deep ludi as well?
What are your thought on 1. Some kind of coupon which you can use once a day for one hour to boost LHC mob exp a little and everything else will be slightly nerfed so after all the coupons exp matches the current rate 2. One specific map with a timer at current rates while the other maps will be limitless and once again slightly nerfed This way we could get the best of both worlds. You can grind as long as you want and Start while waiting for the full party to be ready and still have that 1 hr with better rates to attract ppl for atleast 1 hr a day. After all coupon grinding is hella nostalgic too. Going non-stop for that 1 hr, which used to be 4 when we were kids.
As long as the base grind (without limits) is better than current options with a party of 6 like it should be via natural progression (lol) I'm good with just about (almost) anything. My largest gripe and hill I will die on with this content is the time limit. It's inherently anti-grind friendly and completely fabricated.
My man, you described exactly how I feel about the HP Quest. Like seriously why you put an arbitrary limit on things that are meant to be constantly grinded to get a reward for your long hours invested on them? I just want to play the game but things like a daily 1hr limit on a map and a quest that can only be done once per day is bullshit.
Since LHC gives an equivalent EXP/meso reward of HT, a simple timer removal would be too good. But I do agree the current limit does put a lot of restrictions on the player (and myself), hence we are open for suggestions. This might be a interesting approach but I’m not sure if it’s implement-able (boost exp for specific mobs only). 1. Ideally have the NPC give out a 1.5x exp/drop coupon that last an hour everyday 2.reduce the base exp/drop rate by the same amount 3. Remove the timer
I mean, it begs the question- why can't it be that good? I'm talking specifically about the EXP, meso being whatever in my eyes, this is grinding, party grinding. Is it really so bad that people in a party of 6 can get good exp? You could remove the exchange that was added to this content for whatever reason, removing the mesos portion. That said, lowering the exp is also completely acceptable, just get rid of the god damn timer lol. Edit: Also, I'm not insinuating anything (and perhaps I'm misreading between the lines here), but I surely hope this is in discussion because of the players in general being affected, not because the way LHC was implemented actually ended up hurting staff personally.
