Thats the problem, this map doesn’t even provide our playerbase 1 mage worth of benefit after 4hours of gameplay. Leech/farm = grind Theres close to no difference in this one.
If you are that money hungry for something so beneficial than stay at ulu... updates are not catered towards the few ppl like you but the mass majority just looking to enjoy nostalgic gameplay.
I mean, mages are pretty shit at lhc in general so theres that. Also mages have plenty of maps to grind on, theyre already in a good spot. Also, i hard disagree that leechstory is the same as grinding. There is a huge difference between grinding to level a character and leeching a character/just farming with a mage. We should be encouraging people grinding instead of leeching themselves/farming with a mage. Putting a time limit on a fantastic grinding map, yeah youre right i guess why bother. Might as well leech and farm instead. Is that that we want people doing when we could be working to fix it?
The updates are always skewed towards simple casual gameplay and turning into subpar content which is not only hard to find a party, this is why i'm suggesting to buff. If you are satisfied with the current content, great, but it is just illogical to participate in this content over bossing, imagine releasing a new content that just makes players go. wtf is this nonsense. 1) The 1-hour timer, which also leads to conflicting timers. 2) The lack of participants. 3) The lack of monetary incentive for end-game players, namely Lv. 200's. This comment by @blablabla explains whats wrong with this content. There are absolutely no incentives for an lvl200 & time limited players to even consider going to that map. Updates should be catered towards the mass majority, which includes these players as well. Not only towards the few ppl like you. The difference between grinding and leech/farming is simply the rewards you are getting. What you are doing is basically the same, but of course as a player that enjoys the grind. Updates as such are always welcomed, but Will anyone bring their lvl200 attacker to grind at LHC? No Will anyone bring their mage to grind at LHC? No Will anyone bring their bishop to grind at LHC? No Will anyone prefer grinding at LHC over Bossing? Maybe? So after you're level 200 what else is there to do in this map? How would you suggest to work around this issue? What I shared was make grinding not only decent in exp, but add something that end game players are all hungry for in the exchange shop, add something that mid game players are hungry for such as HP Gain potions. Didn't the vanilla had this? Sorry for quoting you on this again kenny. but your words are more influential since you're a player at power. Currently, it's simply more worth it for these endgame players to be grinding at a level 90 grinding map.
Not to be insensitive but i dont care about the bored 200s. The issue is 100% seperate from the timer making it harder for people to grind. The issues are not mutually exclusive. That said, the timer hurts everyone and should go. It can be great grinding for people leveling and be good money for people post 200. For example, they could just make the exchange available for people who are level 200. Its fine to want to make it beneficial for people who are maxed out, but its just not what im here fighting for, to make that crystal. Also yes. I am the illogical person who would grind here solo for subpar exp because i can and because i like it. Anything to avoid bossing and i would grind here at 200 because half the fun is hanging with friends on discord (or skype god i feel old now) playing and chatting. Of course back then few of us were 200 but our guild got there, because besides leafre this was one of the few truly party friendly leveling maps.
idk, i guess opinions are biased depends on people you play with. My suggestion is let the "old and active" voices to join the newbie guild to see for themselves how many casuals are there.
As I've read this thread, these questions define the problem of the LHC content in general. But I can only relate to as far as having one lv200 attacker and a subsequent lv18x attacker. I'm in no way saying the devs did a bad job. I acknowledge that not every content is perfect and has its own problems and I accept the contents as such. I find myself reflecting on this thought process I had when LHC content was released. I understand that this thread is regarding the removal of the time limit on the LHC content, and somehow we've gone off the course a little to discuss the content in general. Would I bring my lv200 to LHC? No Why? I don't need EXP Would I bring my lv200 to HT? No Why? I got a lv18x to gain EXP from it Would I bring my lv18x to LHC? No Why? I don't feel the need to power level it to 200 Would I bring my lv18x to HT? Yes Why? There's EXP and monetary gain And moving on with this feedback thread forward, I'd like to bring everyone's focus to HOW we can go about this. I think the discussions pertaining to the arguments of whether this is worth doing or not is abundant by a few pages and brings this thread nowhere. But we have to look at the standpoint from both casual and endgame players and how we can cater to both equally (if not, a compromise from either). So here are some of my thoughts on how we may get off this merry-go-round and some questions that arise when we try to balance this. How can we then give a reason for endgame players to participate in endgame content? The exp currently is in fact very good as it is. What would make me want to bring my lv200 to do LHC content? It's clear from the thought process above that I'd definitely do LHC content for sure if there's: 1. Gear upgrades 2. Monetary gain 1. Gear upgrades I think implementing gear upgrades would start to become a power creep issue which then loses the charm of the server. But I haven't been on this server long enough to understand the effects of power creep on the server's playerbase. With regards to that I would appreciate @Jooon's input - as a long time player what do you think about power creep contents in this server? Would it do more harm than good? Should there be a new type of equip that is a little better than current gears for endgame players to hop onto LHC? 2. Monetary gain This can be quite tricky as we would now have 6 people in the party. There has to be some form of considerable meso gain from this content, but the answer to "How much meso is enough?" would vary from player to player. The next question is then what model can we implement for this content to even be at least slightly viable f0r endgame meso gain? Could it be WS Frags? Perhaps it drops 100/250 NX rarely? How can we ensure that each person gets a considerable amount? Then we arrive back to the main topic of this thread. Would it serve better to remove the time limit if we implement a good meso income? I know I've just thrown out just a bunch of questions out here with no answers, but I am unable to answer these questions alone. I don't know enough to give an answer, but I hope this at least help the devs to stay on track while working on making changes to the content. or.. Yknow.. Perhaps this content should just be catered to casual players, and we endgame players can just leave it alone.
Wholly agree with the 2 points mentioned above, that (i) The main point of this thread was to focus on the issue of the timer hindering ease of party play, not the depth/quality of content, which I believe would warrant a separate thread so as not to dilute the OP's intended discussion. I feel like this focus has been somewhat derailed in the past couple of pages. (ii) A good proportion of the Royals playerbase is represented by players like Evan (and myself) who will engage with specific areas of game content not to solely maximise our yield of meso/exp gain per unit time, but simply because... we find said content enjoyable. When I log onto the game, I'll do whatever I feel like doing that day, and what I find fun. On some days that might be bossing, on other days it might be grinding. I personally do not open and strike off a list of "mandatory in-game tasks" that I need to complete based on decreasing order of utility/importance (e.g. quotation below, my own emphasis added in bold). Spoiler: "Mandatory dailies?" To be abundantly clear, I'm not knocking this style of play, in the same way I'm sure Joon isn't bashing the "casual" style of play either. Just putting it out there that there are a diverse range of players on this server, of which a substantial proportion do not engage in a specific order/hierarchy of content solely to min-max efficiency. I really enjoy LHC right now (with exception of the timer and its associated limitations), and even with reduced rates (and timer removed), I would still continue to enjoy grinding here in a party - regardless of whether it is "less efficient" than alternatives like quad-mage farming, "chain bosses", etc.
The content itself is just great as it is, the EXP is great (yes, for a large amount of players EXP still is a valuable thing) more people are talking about it and more parties want to join LHC to grind but in the 2 parties I've been all of us agreed that the timer is the only con on it. This is suposse to be a content to enjoy with friends and to meet new people while grinding, but with a timer we have to rush the grind, we can't take a little break in between to chat, if we get 1 dc we can't find a replacement, if somebody lies about it's time the party pretty much will screw up. I don't see why everything has to be settled around end game, as some people said there is a chain of bosses people can do to gain mesos and it is the majority of the content in the game (Zak, krex, ht, cwkpq, krex, Neo Tokyo) which you can do without problem if you don't feel like grinding/don't need to because you already are level 200 and just play to get more wealth and improve your gears, and that's ok but casual/new players keep getting rejected to most boss runs or don't have enough friend because not everybody plays dialy or large hours to have a BL full of bossing friends to carry them and this is the alternative to those people who can't find a decent spot where to leveling besides bf/pap/anego solos. LHC is suposse to be a place to grind exp, having an exchange system on it is actually a nice plus. I'm not that of a casual player myself and I do like to boss a lot too, I'm also find myself maximizing some times I mean, I don't even apq because on that time I'll get more selling leech/farming with my bishop to buy apples, but I do have a lot of casual friends which most of them feels just like there is no place in the game for people who don't dialy play, dialy boss, gear up with 15b at minimum and at the end of the day most just quit... Here you dont need to be that funded and won't be using 4 apples on a 40 mins zakum with all lvl 140 (which are the ones who party them) to get what, 18-20% each run? Probly not even getting drops, for krex ou can go duo at lvl 13x 14x probly not even trio but quad at lower levels to get some decent experience, I'm pretty sure these kind of player rather prefer grind at LHC (2 krex runs are 1 hour) and get almost double of the experience they can get on krex only using gizers and a few pots, after that they will be happy to get their 50-60% exp while actively playing with other people, hating the timer when dcs, hating it most if someone leave the party with 30 min left on the clock. Sincerely sorry if this isn't as well redacted and with the proper grammar that some of you have,i hope you can excuse my poorly english.
ahemm... https://royals.ms/forum/threads/lhc-exchange-rewards.193830/#post-1140546 cough cough But i still hate the RNG-ness of it , should be a fixed amount
Thank you for saying this. I should have been clearer in expressing my similar thoughts, but I for one am glad you outlined it so clearly! I think @blablabla 's post and @Jinium 's post really tie in and summarize the concerns from both @Jooon 's perspectives as well us those who are more to the mid-game and casual (@Evan ). Contrary to @benkrong 's first point, I think the reason why the thread sort of "derailed" is because people desire a bit more out of LHC, timer or not, and so things like monetary gain are closely tied to such a restriction. A request: I don't know if we'll get an answer, but would it be possible for staff to be more forthcoming on what is planned, if anything, for the Von Leon boss? Is there some gear progression planned like Jin mentioned? Matt has mentioned things are being discussed and I think this is one of those times where a true dialogue with players would be useful, before any new implementations or changes. Of course, LHC has only been out 10 days as of this post. I also request this because perhaps this whole conversation is jumping the gun a tiny bit as I eluded to before (what if VL is enough to give those 200's a reason to get out of bed for LHC.) Perhaps not...
But I thought the mechanic would encourage people to find parties and party together instead of supporting solo grinding...
Reindeer EXP is absolutely nuts (191.4m exp in one hour) https://royals.ms/forum/threads/lhc-grinding-party-exp-hr.193861/page-2#post-1141034 I think players just have to realize how insane the exp gain actually is here, and that will take time + hella promotion Once it's widespread how viable it is for leveling, I think recruiting will expand to all timezones--thus the timer issue is somewhat resolved? (at least in terms of creating/joining parties (which I believe was the purpose of the thread))
What if we had any kind of sign in npc like on bosses so we all can start at the same time? Also, when one guy dcs the timer/exp could just stop for a few mins to give them time to log back or something? The main issue I see here are the DCs, people with no full time on, if you join a public and realize there is one guy with a full washing character (shads can still pass the red crockys with ME) and you want to re set the party? Then you'll have to find another att that is ok with let's say 45 mins of grind, or if one-two members DC and dont log in again you pretty much loose it. Parties are kinda running dialy now and more people are looking to participate, but there's still some problems with that time limit.
The intention of the system is undoubtedly great but the idea hasn't worked out as thought out to be. Many people find themselves (including me) having a lack of people who wants to even grind at LHC - as seen by many comments over various people in different stages of their royals life - and simply put, dislike/hate the timer system. I think while the comments above is useful, i really hope to hear what staff has been deliberating on their end and possibly alert us with their current thought process so the conversation can continue in a productive manner. Because right now, I think the community at large is stuck as to what is feasible in terms of "attractive" even though common points have been highlighted. And even though your concerns are rightfully placed, i think a majority of us who commented (and reading) are hoping for some change that would improve the system towards the mid-end tier players. Would love to hear your input on staff end @Kenny Spoiler I personally think implementing the boss wouldn't affect grinding for mobs as the current system in LHC is flawed for this matured server, but that's just my thoughts
As some of you guys already suggested, having the choice to take full exp OR full drop coupon inside LHC would be a really great idea. E.g. Having limitless time on LHC (or buffing it please) and choosing exp at 100% and drop at 70% of current rates for grinders and vice-versa for people looking for mesos income (lv200s)? That way people could still do party grind without worrying about the 1hr but won't be as good as it is right now. IMO that'd be a really good balance that could make this place a very popular and enjoyable place
It could be a billion exp an hour. I know a fair few wont touch the material till the timer is gone. Also, again, there is no reason there cant be a phenomenal grinding map that isnt a boss that makes grinding a viable method to 200 and not be time locked. The amount effort in getting a party and maintaining it for many hours should be enough to justify it.
agree bossing can be challenged up to twice a day and grinding is available 24/7, so imo grinding cant be as good as bossing at exp\hour still idk why in the current state it is able to gather 6 ppl for zak, but cant gather 3 ppl for lhc (from experience). if i understancd correctly lhc should be better than zak in terms of mesos/hr and exp/hr
Why not. Lol. Its not like bossing is difficult... imo the monetary reward/access to BiS items should be why people boss. Exp can be nice too, and if people like bossing by all means. But there is no reason there cant be good grinding. Whats the exp/hr difference between this and "diverse content" the timer is supposed to protect???? Its not even fucking close. There is plenty of room to tune the exp down so its still better than existing content (as it fucking should be, its LHC aka what came after ToT and Leafre, and requires a full party) all without destroying the "bossing meta" so many players are borderline aroused to protect. Also because the timer. People are on different stages of LHC, if they have different amounts of time. Its easy to sit and smege for a boss because you arent being timed on how quickly you do it.
