I don't think low level wash gear inflates at the same scale as ap reset. They stays relatively the same when ap reset was 8~10m vs 16~17m now. There has been a little increase maybe 5%~10% more, but no where near 50~60% like ap reset
The community is dying for a number of reasons. HP washing may be one of them and change is necessary (IMO) to stay competitive among other maple v62/83 private server. I don't think worry about the inflation of washing gear out weighs a potential QoL improvement that may attract more new players and increase the foot traffic of MapleRoyals.
I have an idea actually, but I don't know how inplementable it is. What if we standardize the mp used for hp washing (i.e. rogues and other classes also only need 4 mp per wash). That way the economy stays stable, but base int does not have to be as high. This effectively allows more enjoyment in early game, while also still requiring these classes to wash the same amount. I feel like the reason hp washing feels hard is because many characters are unplayable until 4th job if you want to do it a lot. This would solve that problem.
Just make it possible for people to gain the average hp correspondent to their job from 1 ap reset no matter what level they are... Use 1 'hp' ap reset -> add 22 hp in case of thief, for instance. That way people actually play their character and dont need to get leeched and dont need to remake their character which in my opinion thats garbage. people would still need to vote and buy resets, just no more need to use int gear and to have base int.
This is really great work @Evan! We've honestly needed this for so long. I'll edit this post with my actual feedback later.
MP questline thread: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/suggestion-max-mp-quest-line.158724/#post-936681
BOSSING AS A MEANS TO GAIN HP The goal of this system is to allow players to earn additional HP for endgame bosses through grinding early game bosses. This is strictly an alternative to HP washing and will not change anything about the current HP washing system. HP washing will and should remain the highest investment/highest reward method of gaining additional HP for players who have invested in that system. My goal here is to allow players to achieve the minimum HP required to do endgame bosses within 10 levels of the minimum level without having to leech with INT or participate in the current HP washing meta should they so choose. I feel this is balanced as to not devalue the current HP wash meta while giving viable, organic progression to players who do not wish to play that way. With that out of the way, lets get into the meat and potatoes. All data used is taken from Shiyui's HP Washing Calculator. We are going to split the bosses into 2 categories; early game (no wash required) and end game (additional HP required for most classes). We will not cover every single boss individually as most of these breakpoints will cover those bosses as well. EARLY GAME Papulatus Krexel Zakum END GAME Wulin Yaoseng (Shao) Horntail Auf Haven With that established, lets also take a look at natural HP for all attacking classes at 5-10 levels above the minimum level to do each boss. ALL NUMBERS ARE INCREASED BY 1k TO ACCOUNT FOR HP QUEST AND HP GAINED FROM COMMONLY USED GEAR (MoN/BFC/4TH JOB MEDAL) JOB Lvl 155 Lvl 165 Lvl 180 Hero / 14,006 / 14,666 / 15,656 DK / 13,681 / 14,341 / 15,331 Pally / 13,681 / 14,341 / 15,331 NL / 6,403 / 6,623 / 6,953 Shad / 6,403 / 6,623 / 6,953 Bowman / 6,403 / 6,623 / 6,953 Bucc / 11,188 / 11,738 / 12,563 Corsair / 6,838 / 7,088 / 7,463 Here is a copy of that table with the required amount of HP for each class to survive at least 1 hit of each end game boss without Hyper Body, taking into account Power Guard/Meso Guard. Auf Haven values are estimates based on reported 15.7k damage it can deal as I could not find hard data. JOB Lvl 155 Lvl 165 Lvl 180 Hero / 10,200 / 8,330 / ~10,000 DK / 12,000 / 9,800 / 15,700 Pally / 10,200 / 8,330 / ~10,000 NL / 12,000 / 9,800 / 15,700 Shad / 7,320 / 4,900 / ~8,000 Bowman / 12,000 / 9,800 / 15,700 Bucc / 12,000 / 9,800 / 15,700 Corsair / 12,000 / 9,800 / 15,700 Now, in my eyes, there are 2 ways we can approach this; 1. Allow every job to reach the minimum HP for Shao by 155, inherently allowing them to do Horntail, with additional progression needed for Auf Haven. 2. Allow every job to reach the minimum HP for Horntail by 165, making Shao require HP washing (though a lower amount with these proposed changes). with even more additional progression needed for Auf Haven. I will be discussing this from the perspective of option 2, as I feel it is a good compromise between preserving the value of already washed characters and the current HP washing system while still lowering the amount needed by a significant amount. How do we accomplish this? Make each early game boss (Pap/Krex/Zak) drop an item (I will be using coins as my example but really anything will do), something like 1-2 per run. These boss coins can then be traded in to an NPC to gain additional max HP similarly to how the current HP quest works. Each job will receive different amounts of HP based on their needs, such that, when reaching a to be discussed milestone of boss kills on each early game boss, they will have the minimum HP to do endgame bosses, Horntail in this example, by level 165. Horntail will then drop its own boss coins to allow for further HP gain to progress to Auf Haven at level 180. These boss coins will be untradeable so as not to create a market and ensure players must complete the required amount of runs to get their HP. This creates a system where players can naturally progress through the bossing tiers and be able to do endgame content at a later, but still reasonable level (or at all in some cases) without having to HP wash. Some loose figures off the top of my head for this boss coin system; Bowman, Night Lord, and Corsair 20 Papulatus Coins = 800 HP (40 HP per coin) 25 Krexel Coins = 1350 HP (54 HP per coin) 25 Zakum Coins = 1350 HP (54 HP per coin) TOTAL HP GAINED = 3500 @ level 165 30 Horntail Coins = 6000 HP (200 HP per coin) TOTAL HP GAINED = 9500 @ level 180 Buccaneer, Shadower, and Dark Knight 20 Papulatus Coins = 300 HP (15 HP per coin) 25 Krexel Coins = 600 HP (24 HP per coin) 25 Zakum Coins = 600 HP (24 HP per coin) TOTAL HP GAINED = 1500 @ level 165 30 Horntail Coins = 3000 HP (100 HP per coin) TOTAL HP GAINED = 4500 @ level 180 Hero and Paladin 20 Papulatus Coins = 200 HP (10 HP per coin) 25 Krexel Coins = 300 HP (12 HP per coin) 25 Zakum Coins = 300 HP (12 HP per coin) TOTAL HP GAINED = 800 @ level 165 30 Horntail Coins = 1800 HP (60 HP per coin) TOTAL HP GAINED = 2600 @ level 180 These are all very rough numbers just sort of thrown out there to reach minimum HP numbers at relevant levels, so please try to focus more on the concept instead of the specifics of the figures listed. I believe this would be highly beneficial to the server in many ways. Low level content becomes relevant again as leeching with INT is not the only way to gain enough HP for bossing, AP reset prices deflate for similar reasons, players aren't forced to remake existing high level characters due to not investing in HP washing early enough. HP washing still remains the top method of HP gain as it allows players to do bosses at minimum levels and reap the rewards of drops and exp earlier but they can still also participate in this new system. Since the coins are untradeable and only obtained via bossing, they won't be able to be sold in FM and can give bossing players additional ways to earn income by selling the boss coins in the same way Zhelm/Krex ring service is sold now. Its more difficult for hackers to take advantage of this over something like a further repeatable HP quest since they would need to hack in bosses and max their runs for over a month to achieve all these numbers. I'd like to refine these numbers as much as possible, so any feedback on the HP gain and boss coin amounts required would be excellent. EDIT: RIP my formatting, @Evan halp EDIT 2 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO: There ya go @Tect
I'll drop this here... If there was more Alt HP gains via DIFFICULT means, what would be a good amount of attainable HP?
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/suggestion-of-making-royals-better-perhaps.158835/ let's make Def and Mdef great again it'll balance the need for washing and allow to players to survive bosses even if they didn't plan to wash from lv.1. i don't know how changeable the current system is... but maybe we should aim for something like this: MaxDef = the (global) maximum amount of defense a player can equip (perfect equip after scrolls for def). MaxReduction = the maximum damage reduction in %. x = the current def. goes from 1 to MaxDef. Proposed Formula: DamageTaken = 100 - MaxReduction*log(10x/MaxDef) # in % example for MaxDef = 1000, MaxReduction = 10%: thus, having less than 100 def in this example will cause to take extra damage. 1 def -> 120 % damage taken 10 def -> 110 % damage taken 50 def -> 103 % damage taken 100 def -> 100 % damage taken 200 def -> 97 % damage taken 400 def -> 94 % damage taken 800 def -> 90.9% damage taken 1000 def -> 90 % damage taken (double amount of def -> ~3% damage reduce) perfect scrolling top+bot with 10% hp will give +14*5 = 70 def and 140 hp, and with the new damage reduction system it could be a lot. edit: it could have an interesting effect on mobs too.... and might make skills like disorder and threaten a bit more useful edit 2: from calculating the max def (warrior best equip +shield + z-helm + HT necklace + best def earring + Rudolf nose \\ godly with perfect scrolls for def when available) i got 972, so the example above seems quite close to reality
this server would b booming with ppl if it wasnt for hp wash, i have 7 friends that left their sins bandits pirtaes hunters becuz they realized they need to play a stupid mage first cuz they need tons of cash. i almost quit myself but decided to try to grind to NL and now playing a mage(my least fav), we'll c if i make it there. this server is great and its num 1 in the MS private servers world, and so many ppl are coming here. take advantage of that u have huge potential fix this system. there r lots of helpful solutions i ssaw here in this thread but action must be taken! best of luck
There definitely should be alternative methods to current washing meta. Like more HP quest that involves killing a number of bosses, or have bosses drop usables to gain more HP just like the current quest. That way, people can actually enjoy playing a class they want to the fullest instead of leeching them until they are lvl 135+ by creating a mage first/buying leech (which is impossible as a new player). Also, those that do not know about washing do not have to completely abandon their progress.
I really like the Coin idea by UrbanJuggernaut High level HP quest by fireheart Monster book set by sinner92 To me as a new player to the server, I was really afraid how much hp washing was going to impact me and level of fun I'm gonna have. When I first sign up on the first day, someone told me I need 10b before playing as attacking class, which at that time like a really unimaginable sum and now still is. From the vibe I gonna from my conversation, was I need to do really tedious things for a very long time before playing a class I want to play. It reminds me of the link skill system, when after the Big Bang patch, where you need play various classes and level them up to a certain to get link skills to connect to your main character in order to be on the same playing field, which made me quit. I know for games, you need a level of hardship if not the game is too easy to accomplish. I do wonder is the bar set too high for this server? I know in another similar server, if you do all the HP enhancing tasks + HB, there is only two bosses (Vergamot and Toad) you cannot survive. For here, I think is about but also including the shaolin boss and the showa town boss. But from what I experience here so far, dark knights are a few in numbers here, so this might have made the issue much worse here.
