Nightlord/Shadower nerf

I honestly don't understand the purpose of these changes. If you want to change the meta where bosses aren't trivialized and focus more on party play;

• Disable auto pot at boss maps, completely neutralizing mule capability
• Revert avoid changes on Shad/NL's, the changes on Night Lord should be on their damage % formula/Alchemist utility.
• Increase HP on all bosses, with or without crash nerf
• Make leeching overall 10% less effective then say "the expected" % rate, allowing leeching to still be viable for lazy players/self leechers but not the optimal method of training.

Honestly I'd rather have more beat stick with a class I enjoy playing when I used to play maplestory than try to artificially increase the difficulty of bosses with very minimal mechanics to begin with. Your changes should make classes quality of life changes better, not overall worse.

 

I mean, I think people would like to know what this update was based on- that hasn't been exactly answered- this thread did serve a singular purpose- in asking for a change, the other thread (as stated) was merely

Edit: And I think most people know action isn't based on likes- I could list a laundry list of examples of things that would be different if that was the case, OP was clearly making a joke as an opening to his thread.

 

Alright thank you all. I respect your feedbacks and decisions.



Here is for all my thief brothers and sisters

 

I think people misunderstand what NOSTALGIC really means,
Nostalgic means reaching the same hype and joy, those peaks that we felt during the early stages of GMS.
I myself played from V2x - v9x.
To strengthen those words, I would also add that copying content from original GMS is not nostalgic.
What should be done instead is developing new content that remains loyal to the "nostalgic" hardness of the game,
to the "weakness" of the classes as compared to all KOC and on classes.
In addition, changing some skills entirely would would encourage the curiosity factor that us, the oldies miss so much.

My main in GMS was an NL, if I was asked whether this nerf was good? I would say yes and would base my reason on
the fact that Heroes with Axes is currently worse than being a red snail, not to mention NL.
If say, all classes and weapon types were made unique and viable, I would vote against NL unique voidability nerf.
Instead I would say make NL useless at mobbing (completely redesign mobing skills into single target) and leave it to shine as a Bossing class, single target.
But those are only my 5 cents.

 

As OP I just want to state the purpose of this feedback thread again since they're alot of discussions about all other stuff.

Can staff please explain:

How do the nightlord/shadower changes benifit our server, both short term and long term?

Again, it's not about how hard those changes gonna affect NL/SHAD gameplay. It's about WHY.

 

Staff do this pretty please with a cherry on top.

I would also even go further to ask why was this even an idea or discussed without community backing/engagement and why was it worth doing without our opinions being asked.

This is good test of the new/old staff. I'm excited to see if the same thing happens again where we are just sit back and everything we type and feel is pointless to any change of the game. Or. It's fixed. *Grabs popcorn* "stay tuned for the next episode of Feedback Forum Fuckery"

 

Not trying to put you on the spot, but @Joong

So far this is the closest ive seen as an explaination why the update was done, so Im going to pull on that thread a bit.

Till stated otherwise im going to assume this was the philosophy as to why luk and avoid was changed. If thats not the case, I welcome an explaination.

 

Let now be "until", then. This was merely an idea I heard from a Taiwanese player, and something that I relayed as a non-Staff person in the Ironman Discord to your proposal that nerfing Shifter more would have been a good idea. I thought you might have found that idea an interesting addition to your thought process at that moment. If anything this will just make me less prone to casually or enthusiastically discussing matters related to MapleStory and game design outside of official settings.

 

All im asking for is an explanation. Something a lot of players have been asking for.

Im doing my best to not be a bitter former staff, but now I see the frustration people face when no one will answer questions that im so sorry, are duely owed.

 

how do u guys keep fucking up this server while also not acknowledge that this is maybe counter productive to your 'nostalgia oldschool' shtick? honestly one of the most alluring things other than massive damage potential with attack pots for nls was the great avoidability. it was swell af to see skeles miss u like 7 times in a row. u guys drank the nl-bad-kool aid because rwt keep buying perfect cravens for 200 dollars and inflating the nl end game.

 

I think this is an interesting thought and whilst it may be true from a technical sense, dampening down LUK’s effect on avoid won’t stop range checks. It’s very true that having high avoid passively increases a night lord’s DPM at bosses but this is rarely something that is practically considered when recruiting for boss runs. The range hurdles will still persist and the ‘casual players’ will continue to experience the same hurdles of not meeting range requirements.

Having said that I imagine ‘casual’ shadowers may have a much harder time going forward

 

Finally went Ht after new patch

5man HT
attacers combination:
Hero (duo paladin for crash)
BM (duo sed mule) i guess 300~400
NL (duo bs) i guess 400~500 around
NL with 514 avoid
Shadower with 412 avoid

I counted shadower vs hero fall down to floor times
when they hitting on small plat

here

here

Shadower vs Hero fall down times is like 3: 1 ( just test 1 run , total run is 49~50minutes , if can more ppl share would be good)
3:1 is like shadower fall 300 times ,then hero (=paladin=dk is 100 times . such a big difference
also I didn't count when shadower climb up then got hit and fall again. lul feel likes a Jq boss

I think shadower deserve more avoid , buz they are actually a melee when they stand same small position as warrior

For nl
I think not much different(maybe buz i have high luk and lv 200, but for low lv nls will be tough) ,but I can feel I got hit more times than before ,harder to duo bs right now .
I feel Hero/Paladin/Dk attacker duo bs might more ez than nl after nerf avoid .

In mine auf run(main body) , 2nl duo slower like 2~3minutes ( I think is buz more dispel, we can't avoid a lot as before and the top right safe plat is gone now, control mules harder )

Btw The nl duo with me is 10.8k range nl with 87 auf

we should have more NLs sharing their experience , better be 135~160lv mid tier

 

Knight has: Archilles,power stance,elemental resistance,hyperbody
Mage has: Magic armor(good enuff to survive) wif some other def buff
Thief: shadow shifter+nimblebody +20avoidbility?! except meso guard for melee shadower
NL born with no def,hpbuff,elementalresistance,magicArmor,Archilles skill, this is why (Alchemist) and THEIR SINGLE TARGET DPS FOR!
But we pay more for recharging star, exp eq, alchemist nerf,avoid nerf-_-
This is not pvp games btw, knight and mage wont miss all their skill on thief, what we do is have fun party with fren for bossing=.=
Since this server allow hp wash + mules , all the classes is aready not balance not nostalgic.
If upcoming patch there will be another nerf on (NightLord) i wont mind u guys change class name to (Nerfed Lord), atleast my fren know i got nerfed, jk no offence xD.

 

I dont know about NL nerf, I'm here to rant about Shad.
I chose this class despite knowing they are the most expensive due to 2 weapon and hardest to wash because I like the animation of boomerang step, the tankiness, most important have a chance to join boss pt.
I spent a lot of meso and time on hp wash and leech just to upgrade my Shadower, with a hope that one day I can have fun bossing with new friends.
Now with just one nerf, every hope went away, Shadower become irrelevant again and I'm stuck with the thought of changing class or just quit for all. Because, let's face the reality, no matter you love the class, it is better to play offline if no one want to party with you.
And I really don't understand why, out of many viable options to buff other jobs, you chose to nerf a medicore jobs with the most expensive fund.

 

Shads being melee while lacking any stance ability such as that which warriors have access to meant they relied heavily on their avoid stat. Shadower and NL are nothing alike in regards to how they play. Why this LUK-avoid nerf was implemented across the Thief class in its entirety and not targeted specifically at Night Lords is somewhat perplexing.

 

Can you explain how a nl is losing dpm from less avoid? You can attack while being hit, throw/attack in the air (meaning you can attack in midair as you actively dodge and while you reposition, archers can't do this without doing perfect inputs each time, not worth the effort for them. Its a big difference between the two, and I have stated in many threads before: archers having more avoid would actually benefit because of this and give them a slight dpm boost w/o buffing skills, which is why I recommended MM getting some extra avoid since it's the easiest, simplest thing to start with) and stand on a ranged plat that you don't get knocked off of. Explain how this is hurting nl so badly that it's making runs slower when avoidability was never what made NL runs faster. All they need to do is stand back and hold TT and hope their pet doesn't glitch out, their dpm is barely affected by their avoidability, they are ranged and can fj.

If we didn't have washing, this would be a different matter. NL stand on top of the dpm charts, and it's not because of their avoidability, it's because of their lucky seven formula and how directly w.att improves their range.

Yep, SE sure helps them, but they are one of only three classes that get natural critical. If they're "useless" without it, well, ok, so what? They are the top class if you throw enough money behind them, that's the trade off. And all of that has never stopped them from being funded before, so stop acting like this avoid thing for NL somehow breaks the class, it does nothing realistically to hurt them or alter their gameplay because any nl at ht is washed to survive there. You get what you put in with NL, and if you can afford it, you're rewarded with the top attacking class, the avoidability was a bonus, but not a function of their gameplay. Them being nimble and shifty due to their low hp made sense, but that's virtually irrelevant because almost nobody makes an unwashed nl on purpose, that's the trade-off.

It seems like the avoid formula will be reconsidered, at least for shads, but this argument is totally ridiculous, NL weren't on top cause if their avoid, not at all

Edit: And FWIW, I don't think alchemist should affect att potions duration, that's totally insane IMO, and if it did not, NL would still dominate. Would be the true meso sink they need, not the star upcharge

 

In my memory, Devs never change back nerf so likely shadower is dead. It sad that they are the most expensive job to fund yet still above average at best and got hit hardest while NL aren't affected much when thieves got nerf.
This remind me why I quit 2 years ago as this game punish you for putting any effort to play any other than NL.

 

This is sadly historically accurate. This nerf was most definitely intended towards nightlords, yet shadowers are more effected. Like so many game changes before this, this did NOT meet the intended action or impact of the change. The domino effect continues.

 

If u get knocked back u basically lost 0.3 att time by moving a little bit+attack+moving back to ur position only if theres no more space to get knocked back and still can hitting like zakum b1-b3, if u are on platform it even worst u need to move immediately if not u will fall down from next boss hit, that time u aready less attacking for 1-2 times,thats y ppl hate cwkpq pirate boss.