On the current way KS reports work.

We've mentioned multiple times in the past that we are going to remove a lot if not all of the custom player commands, this should not be a surprise to people anymore:

 

There is no cop-out. The reason we are against new commands for KSing is we have said before we are against adding any new player commands, this doesn't apply to just KSing. If you want to search the forums to read Matt's posts regarding the lack of desire to add more player commands, perhaps that will help you.

I don't have a suggested improvement as I find the current system to work much better than what has worked in the past. You are the one who came to this thread seeking a change, not me

 

Yes, it's possible for me to die in a matter of ~2seconds in the case I mentioned. Manon/Griffey has a instant attack (Edit: instant kill attack) that does damage and dispel at the same time, so I have to keep bumping into them to survive. Right Pianus dispels frequently, and it already takes great effort to solo it without dying, as a magician class.

There was one case I was helping a warrior friend with Manon and a KSer came in. Eventually we had to give up the map because I couldn't stay in the map without risking dying.

 

Let's be serious, you can't be satisfied with the half-loaf of a KS reporting system there is right now. If you can completely ditch the need for KS reports and handling them, why not? I believe the entire GM team can only dream of that, so why not make it a reality? Also, I edited my previous post to contain an example of how easy it is to die for someone like me, and thus how annoying and dangerous it is to 'politely' handle a KSer.

 

I like our current format to be honest. The only thing I would consider changing is allowing "cc please" instead of something like "Please cc, this is my map and I don't want you training on it" because I know many of our players do not speak English fluently.

 

I know there is only Matt and Kevin on the development team, and as a server and database developer, I know it is a bit of a pain in the ass to add a new command. I can sympathize with them since they're also coding a new client from scratch, but turning down every single command idea without giving it time to breath is not the right way to go about things. Sure, keep the ideas in a backlog (however long it may be), we players can wait. We just want to know if you're willing to invest time in the future to implement it once you're free from coding the new client and other more important tasks. Its up to you where this should go on the priority queue, not us.

John, if you're still not convinced, I propose a community poll and to get the community's opinion on a mapowner whitelist that will make KSing a problem of the past.

Honestly, the whole aversion to commands is ridiculous. What if I say, in the new client, add a UI frame that behaves like the already-in-place Blacklist, and simply change that around a bit and turn it into a mapowner whitelist. Same core concept, different aesthetics, whether you prefer a real UI or text. Would my argument still be immediately refuted then as though it were a command suggestion? If it isn't, there's some logical fallacy going on here with the whole aversion to commands as it boils down to simply aesthetics. If it is, is there anything we can suggest, besides changing already-existing features, that can't be considered a command suggestion?

 

Honestly it's pretty ridiculous how you can't let go of the fact that we don't want more commands on this server, we have reasons for not wanting them and if you do any research at all, you can probably find out all the reasons from past discussions (There's been so many discussions about adding new commands and all end up the same way).

I also don't really understand your other suggestion, just like how I don't see how adding more commands would solve killstealing issues, I don't see how adding a whitelist interface would help either. The problem with people not leaving maps while they're killstealing usually has to do with the mapowner being unclear or rude towards the person killstealing. Though I can understand that the player would be frustrated with the killstealer, being rude is not going to solve the problem at all and in fact it would likely make it worse than it already was. We aren't out here to be babysitters and ban every killstealing player ever, even the contrary as we've always stated that players should try to resolve issues with each other themselves and they should only ask us for help if it really escalates. The problem however is that a lot of people try to ask for GM assistance straight away and don't even try themselves to solve the conflict in a polite and civil manner. Why do we need to change our system because players don't even try? That is not our problem and should not become ours either.

 

I can see both sides of the argument, and I agree with pretty much everyone here to at least an extent, but I want to just leave a few points in.

Do you really not? If we have a standardized way to ask people to change channel with all the important details included within, we can eliminate all these cases of the manpower being rude. There is no subjectivity in using a command. People can't intrepret it as rude and in return stay in the channel, as you later imply.

I just want to ask you, what is this conflict that is being brought up? You make it seem as if you're going to hold a conversation with the person breaking the rules. I don't think you can expect to reason with most of these people. I agree that there may be some exceptions with people who didn't know they were KSing, but in general these kind of players aren't going to write down any more than a "my map" or "cc plz". The person on the receiving end of the harassment can only say "Please change channel, I would like to train alone. I own the map, which you can check using ~manpower. Thank you!" so many times before it feels pointless. There is no real interaction here, at least not in my relatively short time here.

Ultimately I think there are points to be made from both sides and would definitely like to hear more about what people think on a grander scale.

I second this.

 

I disagree completely with the part that I've marked as bold. If you were to enter my map and I instantly use this newly suggested command that tells you you're unwanted and have to leave within 2 minutes, I'm fairly sure the average player would experience this as rude since there hasn't been a real reason for the command to have been used yet. You can say that this is just one of many situations, but this is one of the most common situations. The amount of times I enter a map that is on the way to my destination map and I get ~mapownered straight away followed by "cc please" is ridiculously high, and I do experience it as fairly rude as I haven't interacted with the map nor had the intentions to. With that said, I believe this suggested command would promote mapowners to become lazy, frustrates people who are just passing through and probably causes more harm than good. Of course I also understand that for a few situations it would work flawlessly, but there's many situations I can think of where it would absolutely not function at all.

I've been asking people politely to leave my map for probably over 8 months now and I've only had 1 or 2 cases where the person would refuse to leave. That is not because I'm lucky with the kind of people I run into, that's just because I don't let my emotions get the best of me when someone attacks monsters on my map and I try to solve the situation in a civil way. What is key here is that I try my best to resolve the situation myself without having to ask a GM to do this for me, and that is something that not many players on this server do. We don't want to make people rely more and more on commands and GM interaction, we want people to take some responsibility and try to resolve situations themselves before they ask for help. And with resolving the situations themselves I do not mean they should spam the combination of words I hate the most "cc please".

 

In your opinion, do you think "cc please" is more rude than:

 

Personally neither of those are my cup of tea, though if I'd have to choose I'd rather have a person tell me the latter option.
The main difference I can see between saying "cc please" and "Please cc, this is my map and I don't want you training on it" is that in the latter message the intention is a lot more clear and it only took slightly more effort to write.

 

I wanted to ask you what your logic is. If I disguised my suggestion as a UI and not a command, would it still be immediately rejected as though it were a command?

If you say yes: Then you can consider literally any suggestion as a command suggestion, hence can we even suggest anything new at all? What is the purpose of this section then? Is it to give players false hope? Because by saying, yes, then this section's sole purpose is to give players false hope that feedback will be heard and not be instantly rejected like this.

If you say no: Then the reason you rejected my suggestion was due to aesthetics (text in the case of commands vs a whole UI frame), and hence you are committing a logical fallacy by rejecting it anything that's simply a command.