if u ask to strictly compare myself to a pally who deals constantly dmg cap..i wouldnt know if tats accurate...i dont know if with my current fundings i would be at that range but, lets do it... with si a pally do 1 blast every 0.67secs(if my info is correct) that would make 89.6 hits per min wich multiplied for 180k dmg(on avg remmebr that crushed skull make that min dmg goes to 165k sometimes) makes 268k stdps per sec.....quite good, (but under nl/sair/shad currently)...now i do 1 crusher every 0.87 secs(with si) wich means 69 hits per mins multiplied by 3 lines makes 207 lines per mins+se gives 15% of critic dmg(it feels a bit more but lets stay at 15%) wich pretty much its an extra line for me..so..of those 207 lines 32 will be crit..that makes 239 lines per min wich m wich makes almost 240k dmg per sec....that makes a pally 12% stronger than me in single target situations...ye a good amount but: 1.-im a multitarget 2.-im currently 12k...i can get 10% stronger..even 20% stronger in a couple of years... to say even more, i calculated my dmg using an apple...what if i use a gelt? it benefits me..barely benefit a pally who reached that point...what if im doing a speedrun i can get naricain elixirs.....it drastically changes my situation...that pally alrdy reached his top.....i have those options...he dont 3.-he has to memorize every single boss elemental weakness to do that..i dont(no tht difficult, but still an extra "resource") some bosses/mobs dont have elemental weakness, in royals they haved to give pretty much every boss a elmental weakness to they can compete and yeah they got crash wich is a pretty usefull skill....theyre not bad..read my 1st comment quoting dabsta, i alrdy said theyre quite decent, my whole point was that if u main any other job for years u can always get better,except for them....after some time...maybe 2 years u reached his top and then its almost impossible to improve.... Imo in sigle target situation...with elemntal weakness they should be the stronger warrior BY FAR, and they are the stronger in those cases...but not by far, thats why im saying "tehyre quite good, just need the remove of dmg cap to shine as they should" Theres a reason why everyone is saying "pallys are the best warrior nowdays" and pretty much nobody mains them...most use them just as crash mules..Perf skis wont last 1 week being sold in forums......try to sell a perf crush skull...it will take a while
1. Single target usually happens more than multi-target. Even multi-target bosses like Zakum and Horntail are largely 1v1 and the Paladin's time spent dealing weaker multi-target damage can be compensated with weapon cancel and Heaven's Hammer. 2. That video was with a 14k ranged drk. How many people are going to get that range clean? You admit that Paladin's are a top dps class in the lower and mid levels of 4th job, but that video shows they're still near the top at level 200 with Gelt and echo. That means they're better 1v1 against Hero's and Drk's from 121-200. They're near equal playing field from levels 1-120 and better 1v1 bossing (most bosses are 1v1) and grinding from 121-200. That's a significant amount of time where they're better than or equal to them. 3. I have to remember to use Lightning charge at Toad and a Dark Knight has to keep his hp below a threshold. The 2nd is objectively harder. Most of the major bosses have an elemental weakness because Royal's decided to give it to them, where is this going? How long will it take you to hit 15k range where you can outdo a 13k range Paladin at level 200? Based on that video, most people aren't going to be at a range where the damage cap stops a Paladin from beating the other warrior's 1v1. Also this is with Gelt's an echo. Do you use a Gelt and Echo everywhere? Because if you don't then your dps falls even shorter of Paladin's. There could be many reasons people don't main Paladin's, but I find the main reason is that they still have a bad stigma attached to them from years of being terrible. A lot of the comments here do not seem like it's from people who spent time trying to make the class work, but from people still thinking they're below average and need much more buffs. Perfect Stonetooths and Claymore's are in high demand. These weapons have a higher dps than Crushed Skull. It would be like comparing the difficulty of selling axes for Hero's.
Ok. if u are refering to mini bosses yeah, but those are not a "must" do. i could argue grinding aswell and thats a multitarget situation, i need more here. Ok.....wheres your proofs?(i wont take "i have years here" bcs i could argue ive been playing since 2005" and both of those are terrible arguments)if cancel and hammer haved no cooldowns u would be undoubtly right..but both of those have heavy cooldowns ..so i would need the math here. something i can say here is that hampa stated that in a 6 man pt ist better have 1 hero/drk and 5 nls than having just 6 nls..this isnt precicely math...but i higly doubt that if having a multitarget in a pt can help to deal more dmg than an extra NL a pally can outdmg that just bcs of hammer. what difference does it make?..it was against a 13.5k pally(wich btw was using the same att gears)its not like it was against a weak pally , no much ppl get to those points, and it proves my point...the difference was 53 secs, wich means less than 6% difference...in my example a pally was 12% stronger than me and its not enough...in that video the pally was just 6% stronger. say "better" sounds good..how about say "less than 6% stronger in just single target situations" doesnt sound as good isnt it? and btw " you admit" it sounds like i was denying it for a while...how many times i have to say the THEY ARE A GOOD CLASS , my 1st comment was: "they dont need any buff, just remove the dmg cap" they need a larger dmg difference in end game to be considered anything but a crash with "decent dmg" oh yeah! Toad! that boss that is a "must do daily" wich made the spectrum googles useless bcs the heandband is easier and cheaper to get...oh wait...that ppl barely does toad? ok. jokes aside ofc theres some bosses where every job shines againts others(wich can be debated due crash being useless at toad, but even being hard to zerk there hb is a highly desired buff at that boss) and this point was going to(altought was the slightest point against pallys) that i totally see ppl confusing elements or forget wich element hit waht effectively and due less dmg for being distracted(something that happens a a lot here) No need to outdo just the fact that being over 10k range the difference is just 15% in their main target(elemntal weak single target) and it get shorter and shorter as we both grow in range togheter makes me , if i think in long term, want another job instead of pally even a drk U maybe right, many ppl have that stigma,but also theres ppl who know that if u want a good single target dmg u can make either a sair or an nl, and if u want crash, make a mule..theyre easy to do. i would totally recomend a to main a pally theyre fun, usefull and strong. but if i see someone who want to get to the top and see himself/herself active here for many years, i would totally understand if he/she rejects a pally as a main, has good reasons aswell. ??????? im sorry but this is nonsense, why would this comparision be accurate? stonethoots are main weapon for heroes, and crushed skulls are main for pallys...what has to do dps here?????swords sell more easily bcs heros are more popular...just that
What is a must do for you? These are bosses that help level and or give good drops. Bosses on the top of my head that have more single target that multi target. Black Crow Kacchu Musha Anego Toad Krexel Showa Bosses Zakum Shaolin Papalatus Pianus Bigfoot I feel as though most people who boss will hit a couple of those if they play daily. Paladin's are better or equal to the other warrior's when it comes to levels from grinding. I said that Heaven's Hammer (on 6-8 arms) and weapon cancel can help compensate Paladin's slower dps in the beginning compared to Hero's and Drk's. Paladin's are slower at arms, but their higher 1v1 dps and weapon cancel at the body can make up for their slow beginning. 6% difference is still stronger considering that most people won't ever have the same gear as that person. That means most people are lower funding which means the dps gap between Paladin's and the other Warrior's is much larger. Even at extreme end game (level 200, gelt) they're still above average in dps. Crash is useless at Toad, but Paladin's are stronger 1v1 so they're better at Toad. People forget the correct elements in the same way Drk's Die at that boss. Toad is still a high level boss where Paladin's perform better. Maybe you just Horntail and Zakum all day, but there are other bosses that are worth doing as well. My point is how far is long term? When are you going to hit 14k range to hit that 6% dps difference vs a Paladin who has the same funding? If you can't then Paladin's are still stronger 1v1. The reason I play Paladin is because they have a flexibility that most classes don't have. I can get into a Krexel and Zakum run and make the arms and body portion go by quick. If I feel like fighting Bf, Anego or Papalatus I can easily go knowing that I'm not as reliant on another classes buff and that elemental weakness makes my character very strong. It seems you're looking at the investment of Paladin's as useless because they're not as needed at places like Horntail, but you can say the same with all Warrior's. Like most people, they'll be given a chance at certain boss runs and they'll make friends that will re-invite them as long as they're not completely detrimental to the run. Most people don't hit 200 on a character and just stay on it, we keep that level 200 and maybe feel like we should make another. If dps isn't a factor, then why would Crushed Skull's be the main weapons for Paladin's? Swords sell easier and Paladin's can use swords. You used the theoretical situation that Crushed Skull's are hard to sell as a reason for paladin's being underplayed, but most Paladin's I know use a sword. I use both.
i lack of the time to respond in detail, but it seems like pally is the class u enjoy the most and ure happy with it as it is, it fits with ur gamestyle, and if anybody can enjoy it as it is, maybe is well balanced(is not like this thread is gonna make them change the class) imo the fact that they can be stronger in late game and get closer to the dmg of the best single dmg caracter in game nl/sair. GET A BIT CLOSER (i can see ppl quoting this asking "why u wanna make pallys outdmg nls?", learn to read pls) but even withouth that theyre a good class...
I always agreed with your original point about removing the damage cap. I just want to let people know where I think they stand in the bossing/grinding hierarchy so their qualities aren't over or underestimated. I would very much like to hit 300k, but I've been told multiple times that the damage cap won't be raised (not sure why).
Would like to hear any opinions on having dual elements for pallies. I Personally think it’ll be good for us but just wanna hear what people think of it
Maybe if they could make it add the exta charge but cancel the extra damage from elemental weakness so we could do decent damage on neutral targets. But its is just a dream, i dont even have hopes they whould do that xD
All these changes are unecessary except for the 2h bw buff. ACB: Already extremely good, people saying extra range (more dmg and more distance) are playing it wrong. Damage wise its already insanely good. Hitting 2 mobs with elemental weakness makes it stronger than blast. The fact that you can hit 3 HT body parts at right platform says enough about the range of this skill. HH: Sure, the delay is annoying but it also scales with attack speed. For something that has the potential to do like 1M dmg + easily it would make no sense if it was almost instant. If it bothers you that much, go for a faster weapon, IE: flame sword, ST BW Mastery: Once again, having played 2H SW and 1H BW pally, this is not needed. Sure sword hits more stable damage. But theres something extremely satisfying seeing more 200k. I would gladly lose dps to see more 199999 non crits. One thing that I like about pally is that every weapon is VASTLY different yet all viable. The range of damage you get with Flame Sword VS Skull VS 2H Sword are all different and it makes pally feel amazing to play because nobody is the same. (Flashback to one of my fav ht runs, 5 pallies all different weapons nobody doing similar damage lines lmao). 2h: BW BUFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF Also, ninja edit: People forget how versatile pally is. There are tradeoffs that must happen to be this viable. You can't be the best warrior at single target, multi target and utility. Balance in all things (except 2h bw you suck)
