Post-Halloween and Thanksgiving feedback thread

Now that the event is over, i think it is worth talking about it so that next year's event, and maybe other events, will learn from the flaws of this event.

What i write here is only my opinion, i'd like to hear what you guys think about this event in comparison to its last year's counterpart.

Halloween

First I'll say this, last year's Halloween event for me was honestly the most enjoyable event of that year. The gauntlet came every hour, pumpkin was rewarded from winning gauntlet jq, finishing the challenge, or getting them from the cat and frog mobs, and pumpkin had a 4 hour CD for turn in.
The rewards were good, and before they killed the belt scrolling by giving them all 90 days limit, there was a real drive to farm tokens.

In comparison, this year, instead of giving pumpkin for different activities, it was only gained through the 5 horrors, long boss rush, that showed up every two hours.
The boss was regarded by many as uninteresting, and highly exploitable with hitting just the last boss. And discarding the cd mechanic. Tokens shop remained mostly the same but with 2 more tradeable chairs.

These changes, imo, caused the following things:

1. Making the gauntlet be connected to the boss fight took away from the "short break" that the gauntlet gave to people, that short burst of fun and back to gameplay, and instead it made it a tiring experience where you have to also commit to the boss to be freed.
2. Making gauntlets hit every 2 hours instead of 1 took away from the more tight feeling of competitiveness i had last year where you change rankings alot in a single day.
3. Having the pumkins coming from only a single source meant that you practically only needed to interact with the gauntlet. Last year you had the power of choice, either win a gauntlet if you are confident, win the challenge if you need the pumkin asap / you lost the gauntlet, or you dont care for jumpquests and you'd rather farm the pumpkin on your own.

Personal opinion, but the boss rush was an unecessary addition to a great event.
There's not much to add on the reward pool, you guys added some really awesome chairs. I would've hoped that you could've at least remove 1 slot from the non WA belts and return them to be permanent so that they'll return to be a fun thing to scroll, 6 stat belt for someone that doesn't like dojo is a very nice reward that requires a lot of effort

Thanksgiving

TOO SHORT ;A;

In all seriousness, having a week and a half to get the ring and pieces is tough. Especially with the low spawnrate that non mage characters need to deal with, and high chance to get useless pies.

A bit of a niche issue, but this event is unnecessarily cruel to low levels. Why is there a need to limit the turkey spawn to lvl 30 mobs when you make the spawnrate so bad that only 4th job mages can get them in reasonable time, and that turn in has 4 hours cooldown?
If the issue is the turkey being a strong mob, just nerf his lvl and hp, to high lvls he's a 1 shot mob anyways. In the anni event, cakes spawned from the lowest of lvls without an issue. no reason to hurt low lvls and force them to fight mobs that require multiple hits from them when there are already big disadvantages they need to deal with like low damage, and no good aoe.

This one is more of a personal opinion, having the pieces tradeable kinda takes away from the need to even interact with the event, high lvl players that own the ring from last year and want another hat will just buy pieces and call it a day, which goes against the point of having an event when you can buy yourself to victory when all other events you gotta put effort.
Maybe return to the 3 pieces being a random reward, but have piece D be rare, but like Christmas have an RNG fall back when you get the piece guaranteed. And have all the pieces untradeable, or maybe just the last piece, cause buying the hat pieces without doing a single turn in feels wrong. (and for the love of god, no one wants your pie grandma! Especially not after a 4 hours wait...




Ok, rant over
To our admins, i just want you to know that with all the complaints above, i still really appreciate the hard work you put into making us events year after year, im just pointing out these issues so that next year we'll hopefully have a better event

 

I completely agree with ir opinion on halloween event... On the other hand thanskgiving.....
I really liked the thanksgiving event, it was a great idea to add the guilds challenge, bcd it encouraged the idea of help ur guildies bcs it was going to benefit u aswell, was just great.
Its. Normal that has to be a short event, there not much prices to claim, and add eveb more would be a little too much maybe, and it wasnt that really short, it gave me time to do over 20 exchanges even playing for short periods of times due my personal pc screw it up and haved to play from office pc....
Theres no prob with pieces being tradable, witht the event being short cant be compared with xmas system bcs
A. The rewards from xmas are much better
B. Theres more time to get them
It would be a high risk that u do many exchanges and not get any price other than crappy untreadeable repeated pieces, wich u cant use multiple times for nothing... I agree that the variety of prices for grandmas even more for an event who haved an 4 hours cd, maybe some interestibg behind the pieces would be nice, but on general terms i liked thanksgiving, halloween... Not so much...

 

This post says literally every issue I also had with the last 2 events. Thanks for the post and I hope the next events can be better! I'm still happy we got what we got and i'm looking forward to what happens in Christmas

 

Witch’s Deep Purple Belt should be 1 slot, permanent and only attainable once per year just like Pilgrim Hats.

 

require characters to be in a guild when the event starts or in a guild for 24 hours before their turn ins count

 

6 att belt chance is a bit too much if you ask me :/
considering a black belt with 100% scrolls is 13 useful stats, it cannot even match a good scroll of 3 wa, and that thing can go up to 6 wa

 

You can’t compare perfectly chaosing one item to using 100% scrolls on another. Two entirely different things. Use valid comparisons (same scrolls and results from them) if you’d like to discuss it further please. Also take the time to compare the differences found to that of the Pilgrim Hat relative to the Zak Helm.

Additionally, pre-BB gMS-like server—in this same version of gMS the belts had 3 slots and you could attain more than one. Nerfing it to 1 slot/1 per year is already incredibly restrictive compared to what we would have had they actually made this aspect similar to the real game.

 

The event also provides you 100% CS scrolls, it might as well be as available. people would probably sell it as well cause they are tradeable. So yes, I believe it is a fair comparison.
getting a black belt is a huge time investment, getting a single belt and getting a scroll on it, 400 tokens, is time intensive, but not even close to black belt. So no, I still think the comparison is in place, especially that only +2 on the att is enough to outshine a black belt, the currently best in slot belt in game.

 

The outcome isn’t 100% and you’d only get one shot at it each year just like the Pilgrim Hat. A 100% pass rate only removes the need for a WS to be used, it has no impact on the actual result of the Chaos Scroll.

Additionally, it should be understood that things like the accessibility of “Belt Chaos” would need to be modified or ideally even removed (if kept, allow them to be used on all of the lower tier Witch Belts but require the traditional CS for the Purple like we had to use on gMS) to accommodate the change that I proposed.

You’ll have to do the actual math (as I stated in my previous reply) if you’d like to provide supporting reasoning towards why the Purple Belt is allegedly overpowered, while items like the Pilgrim Hat are not. Show the statistical probabilities of the Pilgrim Hat surpassing the Zakum Helm and compare them to the probabilities of the Purple Belt surpassing the Black Belt. You’ll be pleasantly surprised to learn that it isn’t “OP” at all in comparison. Attaining +2 ATT on the Pilgrim can yield a better Helm for certain classes than many ZHelms are (a 3 att Pilgrim was better than a 2X STR ZHelm on my DrK) so do not be under the misconception that the current event items cannot provide a better alternative even with far less than ideal results via scrolling—it wouldn’t be just the Purple Belt yielding such a result.

Just going to repeat again that this is a game based on pre-BB gMS. The Purple Belt was permanent and scroll-able on pre-BB gMS. Just because we have made the odd decision to require players to live inside of Dojo for an inferior belt on Royals does not mean we cannot release an item that has a one shot chance to potentially become superior in roughly 30% of outcomes (should the scroll pass/WS be used).

Take whatever opposing argument made against the Purple Belt and apply it to a hypothetical release of the Pilgrim Hat into an otherwise Zakum Helm centric meta. If it would oppose the release of the Pilgrim Hat you can kiss the validity of that argument goodbye since the Pilgrim was released in despite of it.

 

I don't care about anything except for the fact that the Gauntlet jump quest is tied to this boss rush. I join the gauntlet only for coins, and could care less about the boss so waiting for it to finish is tedious for me.

And yes, I've tried to log off, but if I log off and re-log the game sees that as a loss for me during my jumpquest (even if I won) and de-ranks me to a lower level thus earning less coins

 

Sorry but this is a terrible idea. It's fine the way it is.

The main problem I had with the Thanksgiving event is the fact that it greatly favored players who happen to have a lot of characters and there was absolutely no incentive to gather the ingredients yourself if you were already part of a large guild (or could easily join one).

There needs to be some kind of contribution requirement in order to get prizes because otherwise everyone will just bandwagon on the biggest guilds and not do anything. The four hour time limit was also a bit unfair for players who have a few high level characters as opposed to a bunch of low level characters. If anything, it should have been a 4 hour limit for rewards only (like the witch tower).

 

Shouldn’t you be the one who should provide the maths to convince us?

The burden of proof doesn’t lie with LichWiz, especially not when your first reply is a one-liner but suddenly he needs to be the one to convince you if he ‘wants to discuss further’

As much as I would like alternatives to dojo belt (easier free Attack) I feel like this change would make Dojo more empty than it already is so I’m against this idea. Buff dojo maybe?

Lastly, Gauntlet bosses was interesting, then when more people found out you only needed to hit the last boss, the runs were always longer than 10 minutes, and then you have people who disrupt the screen with firecrackers. I stopped doing it once I gotten my Ring, not worth the reward imo.

 

Uh, no.

Allow me to summarize things for you:

I proposed making Purple Belts permanent (as that is gMS-like and how this version of the game was when we played it) but with one slot to mimic the Pilgrim Hat approach we have taken with other gear that has the potential to surpass their current 'meta' option.

He replied with an attempt to oppose my suggestion based on the alleged statistics/probability involved, but had not done the math needed to actually draw such a conclusion. His reasoning was entirely made up and not backed by data despite using fabricated numbers as his primary reason for opposing the suggestion.

I suggested that he do the math and then return with a validated opinion based on data rather than one entirely based on what he thinks rather than what he knows.

Should he return with numbers which do not reflect what I am saying, then will the onus be placed on me to refute the data which was provided by him should I feel it is flawed or inaccurate.

Understood?


P.S. Dojo being poorly modified from what it was on gMS doesn't mean that other items/events need to suffer just for the sake of keeping Dojo relevant. Maybe, just maybe we should take a step back and realize that Dojo/Black Belts weren't the meta back on this version of gMS either--why are we trying to force it into the meta when it means restricting other items/events that were actually useful and relevant during this same version of gMS?

 

Because purple witch belts in GMS is a great example of unnecessary power creep where one item makes a bunch of other items completely redundant by being too powerful.

With the current system, purple witch belts are always worth collecting when the event comes around and if they were permanent you'd just be making that portion of the halloween event redundant too. Why would I bother trying to scroll a purple witch belt when I already have one?

If you can stop trying to act smart by using big words and actually give me a reason why we need this change and how it would benefit the game in any way, I'm open to hear it. This change does nothing but make the dojo and halloween event less rewarding and less fun.

 

Why does he have to "do the math" to prove that you are wrong, when you have never proven you are right?

 

me watching this thread spiral rapidly out of control:

 

Right about what? Go read my initial post where all I do is make a proposal without any claims about the statistics/probability behind it. He opposed my suggestion by saying that the statistics/probability are the reason it should not be implemented. He must prove this, not me, as I was not one to make such a claim.

 

You can't attack me for assuming you meant leaving the chaos belt situation as it was in this event because you haven't taken that into account in the first post.

I'll just say this, no, im not obligated to prove you anything when you managed to convince no one with your idea, and your tone is really condescending, stop curling up and being all defensive because someone challenged your world views.

Usually i wouldn't entertain this kind of argument but im on a bus and im bored so sure.

First lets established a few things:

1. Lets assume 1 wa = 5 main stats for the sake of simplicity
2. Avarage time to get anything varies immensely between players, characters, and the time they can afford to play, i will have to take assumptions there or we'll get nowhere
3. I WILL take prices into consideration for amount of effort because money is a big factor
4. You did not state a different way of acquisition of the purple belt so i assume its 300 tokens

Alright, first off ill start with math so you won't foam from your mouth.
Assuming that we are not allowing the belt scrolls on the purple belt, you'd need to use a CS
Cs when it passes has 11 results ranging from -5 to +5 including 0 which are equal, so thats 1/11 chance for any result.
This is the chance for any attack if you dont use WS:
0 wa=> 5/11 * 0.6 = 0.27
1 wa=> (1/11 * 0.6) + 0.4 =0.45
2/3/4/5/6 wa => 1/11 * 0.6 = 0.054 (the chance for any of these attacks seperately)

And if we assume that you want to waste WS and double the price of your scrolling compared to just CS (or quadrupling the price if it fails and you try again with CS+WS, and this can go on if you keep failing), then we can assume that the chance is closer to this:
0 wa => 5/11= 0.45
1/2/3/4/5/6 wa => 1/11= 0.09

Now that the math is out of the way, and because i cant be bothered to calculate you how it works with 3 CS on black belt, ill show you using the most extreme of outcomes that blackbelt doesn't match favorably.

Lets talk about classes and players that only care for their main stats cause talking about secondary stats here is comparing apples to oranges.
If we go by the 1wa = 5 stats, then the clean belts have an equal starting point. But from here on out, scaling for black belt would steadily decrease.
In the best case scenario, you can pass a +5 on your black belt, assuming you used WS, the chance to do that is 9%.
As we established, +5 stats is simply 1 wa, so to get a belt that is as strong, or stronger, you simply need to get a positive buff, chance of that is 5/11, or 45%. And thats ignoring that some of the results are so strong that it completely destroys the black belt in comparison.
So, now you might say, you can scroll 2nd and 3rd slot. Sadly, the added chance of getting +5 on both of them as well as the first +5 is 0.09³=0.0007=0.07%, which is super unlikely, and requires triple the amount of cs and ws scrolls, but even in that CRAZY outcome, the halloween event belt will be equal or stronger in 27% of the belts that people would make in that event.
Same issue when you just use cs, you pay triple the cs for 3 slots but the wa still outpace the black belt 1 to 5.

Its an obvious power creep which im amazed i need to prove with numbers to you. Even when you take into consideration that black belt has secondary stats, the chance of your belt getting higher than 20-30 total useful stats as an end result is pretty underwhelming compared to an above average purple belt.

Even if black belt is infinitly farmable, the price of all the CS and WS won't begin to compare. So, end result would be that this new belt will make dojo completely obsolete. You think that this is fine, but i don't want the content the devs and players put so much work on to be trashed by such a low effort belt.

Assuming its 300 tokens (cause you didn't state otherwise), almost anybody with a bit of playtime per day could at least buy the belt that year, an entire server gets the chance to get a better belt, 45% chance for a belt stronger than a clean belt, ranging from slightly stronger to OP.
In comparison, you need to downright no-life for weeks to get a black belt. Getting a handout of best in slot belt when there's already a very fair belt from dojo is just a spit in the face of people who bothered getting a belt, and you gave no justifications for why should the belt power creep its predecessor.