Class/Skill Rework Destroyed Park 2 to make solo AM leech more viable

What if multiclienting is limited to 2 clients? Would it indirectly solve the issue addressed in this thread?

 

Technically yes, though not by the same means. My goal isn't to get rid of trio Duku and therefore make solo AM leech viable by default, but rather give solo AMs a spot to be able to compete with trio Duku.

Limiting multiclient would also affect other facets of the game, obviously, and I think that should be made into its own Feedback if thats something you guys are interested in. This thread has nothing to do with changing the nature of multiclienting in Royals.

 

Personally i think that game balancing changes, before a reliable auto ban is released is actually detrimental for us. I mean, ULU was broken for example, no doubt, but after it got nerfed, barely made an change, just because the main problem looked like caused by heavy meso farmers(i remember the toughts about farming were more impactull than actual hacking wich, i used to think the same..not anymore) was actually less impactful to the economy that actually hackng...so, despite trio duku is indeed kind of broken, this will be another punishment to ppl who are actually spending hours to make a living legally, and we keep avoiding the elphant on the room

Adressing your actual suggestion, to me, after so many years of multiclient, any limitation would feel.....unfair...uneven, bcs , unless you make it a bannable offense, 2 clients per pc would create a meta of "several pcs to play mapleroyals", wich make its again "a game for ppl with money"...Just the recent changes feel unfair, and even dumb. Newest players have not enjoyed the oportunity of plasently legal spending hours to make a profit, but since theres other ppl who are still making big profits cheating, it just feels like punishing JUST us, legal players. Now, no macros mage farming stop them? NO. they were still heavily doing it, just in a more stressful way, wich is gonna lead to legit players getting tired of the game earlier and quitting sooner bcs of that. TLDR.-Take out cheater broken mechanics 1st, then balance ours. I know multiclient was and is detrimental to the server...but from my eyes, is too late,and fixing it now,its not going to solve anything

MY idea to rebalance duku...isnt it simplier to, rework this map as @UrbanJuggernaut suggested(maybe even increase the amount of mob spwning there) make skeles lvl 110 and increase duku lvl to 115?..that would make more margin to everyone.....yes yes, everyone is saying that 3 noobs mages is easier to make that an strong one.....but theres several points that are not ebing adresed. isnt it easier to find 1-2 buyers than 3?, isnt it easir to lvl 1 to lvl 160(and keep it to this lvl) than doing 13x it with 3?, isnt it less hurtfull for bad computers to have 2 clients oppen than 3 or 4?, isnt less pot costly?....and maybe the answer for every single question is yes...next question...by how much?.....

 

I do think, its not even that worth to change it that fast...
Petri leeched move To skele and then to Duku (because some people tested it)
i really dont think this should be patched that fast, would be just unfair to people sharing this with us.

I know this kinda sound controversal, but think about it.
This should be changed for sure, since people who invested 10b+ for their leech equip, should sell leech that high.
Maybe just nerf the Exp and dont stomp this method completly imo

 

Matt has stated that auto ban development and game balance is handled by 2 different people/teams of people. One does not detract from the other.

Idk if I would call it "broken" but certainly a huge gain for marginal investment. I'd also like to avoid the trend of nerfing anything that hardcore mages optimize to earn money by blaming the piss poor economy on them as justification for nerfs.

Its not hard to find 3 buyers when you have a near monopoly on endgame leech. Smegas for trio Duku are typically quickly filled in my limited experience buying. It is not difficult for someone, even a new player, to level a mage to 130. This is by far the most commonly given advice to somebody who just started. You're also leaving out the billions in equips that level 160 mage needs to 1 hit, as well as an HS mule. In addition, my toaster of a computer can chug along with 3 clients, especially when I don't even have to move. Theres the increased cost of pots and monthly Everstones, but when you're making 225m+/hr, those costs are covered very quickly.

 

This could go way off topic, and it seems thats is something that you preffer not to, but just to clarify, m not refering t as something that its going to delay the procees of autoban development, im seeing it from competitiviness sight, sadly, and despite i dont like this idea at all, its a fact that a market is just alive if you can compete with others, and due the estimate of mesos a cheater can make, we needed a source of mesos almost as comparable to be on board, regardless of it takes way more time/effort, currently all the nerfs are just hitting us, and thats why the market seems like dying( this means that market used to feel much more dinamic and changing), so its not important if rebalancing delays or not auto ban development, what it is actually important is to not nerf us TILL auto ban is ready( this has nothing to do with your idea, wich is in fact a great one, just because youre giving a buff to a certain group) TLDR.- no nerfs, just buffs till auto ban is ready(and i know this accelerate the aging procces of the server...., thats why auto ban is so important)

If we haved little to no hackers, the rate mesos/hr that some content is capable to provide was quite big if you ask me, sadly, due the amount of mesos cheaters can make, we kind of normalized getting huge amounts of income, the current amount of mesos a legit player can make, its actually not bad, if it wasnt for the amount that cheaters can make, then it seems little in comparission(lets take RE example, with the absurd low rate that it haved+the no macro system they tought they were controlling the influx of mesos/nx to the server...it worked?.- NO, and not bcs ppl were still heavily multiclient to farm, just because there were tons of hackers getting and selling them cutting the price, so the price of those deflated quickly, and the server filled with mesos+nx anyways, kudos for the ppl who took big advantage of this event in the past years)

True is no that hard...sometimes, i have friends, and even myself recently started to sell duku leech, since it became meta, and its kind of easy...more ppl are selling, and less ppl are buying...so its nort always that easy(so far i haved always to fill 1 spot to not delay the time urther, since i have not much time to actually leech), so its not impossible, or even difficult, the only thing im asking is, whats faster.get 2, or get 3?(when i explain leeching system to a new player i always say: "it takes 4 hours to sell 3") in the long term you gonna always waste more time waiting the more ppl you need. not to count that its a bit easier to someone just say "fk it, ill pay solo leech" if theres no partner if the rate is 120-130/hr, than if it is 210-225. To finish, i would agree that is not difficult for a new player to get to 130....but its not 1 account, theres 3...and with my recent thread about nerfing rwters, i have found out that theres some ppl who take 87 years to lvl to 120.....,btw, ive saw those "billions" ermmm, why ppl is selling their mage equips? have those ppl forget this rebalance where to give AMS a better position because compared to bishops because, aside leech, those equips can be used by a bishop to 1 hit dw for example?, also , im sorry but theres not much difference between 0b investment to 5b one.....not saying things are balanced, just saying that the way ppl looking at it seems a bit..weird to me.

 

well you guys want to have the cake on the plate and in same time eat it

you can't have good economy when 2-4 naked low lvl mages at ulu 1 or 3 at duku abuse the mechanics to get insane exp rates and goods
while mages that are high lvl and funded can't even get close or half of it

all the nerfs we get are just killing us casuals and make it just a bit annoying for those who abuse the multiclient mechanic and refuse to voice out to stop that
(the only one who make meso-goods arethe one that first catch the train to abuse the meta with mules at x spot before all jumps in )

i don't mind if we don't stop the mulestory-multiclient thing ( or limit to 2 clients) but for sure the price we pay over time just adds on and let's see how bad it can get before we say enough is enough back to 1 person 1 farming/bossing...

 

ITT: High level mages who can't sell duku qq-ing about how broken it is. Nice logic. If it's so busted/easy, sell it then.

By the way, I'd argue that making a single petri seller (10b worth of equip) is actually easier than making 3 mages ready for duku. You're forgetting that the mage in the middle (usually always a BS) needs decent-strong equips and MW20 (pretty much required if you want to be a competent seller.) Also the amount of money required to leech 3 mages to 130 easily adds up to over 5b. You can do it yourself, but time is money. Either way, you're investing a lot of resources to get them ready. You keep saying that it's an easy task but for whatever reason, you don't wanna do it.

Your other argument about the mages not having to move isn't a strong one. Most sellers are often dealing with 3 or even 4 (looter) clients. With the recent macro changes, selling duku actually requires you to be more attentive than brainlessly TC-ing around a map with the same rotation. Def way more to pay attention to, cast timers, loot, buffs, etc.

Also the petri market is fine, see a ton of smegas for it daily. Skeles, on the other hand, needs some work. Trio duku is rewarding but you guys are definitely underplaying what is needed to sell it and the actual process of performing it. If you don't agree, make it then. There should literally be no reason stopping you, seeing as how you're all quick to complain it's so broken.

 

Idk if you read the entire thing, but I literally said I didn't want to get rid of trio Duku, only to give solo AMs a spot to compete with it. I understand the amount of work that goes into making trio Duku mages, and I think both can exist together. That being said, there are some parts of your argument I disagree with;

-Comparing Petri seller to a trio Duku seller is not a valid comparison, as Duku and Petri are different tiers of leech. A more accurate comparison would be to a solo Duku seller as they would be selling the same tier of leech as you, and I would say requires just as much investment to get 1350 TMA + HS mule and TC.

-The middle BS can be 3 hit and still maintain spawns which requires almost no investment. Also, a solo leech seller also needs MW20 to be competitive, so that's a moot point.

-Leveling a Mage to 15x-16x + an HS mule also takes time/money, as well as time spent making money to get adequate equips to 1 hit, I'd say an equal amount.

-Looter clients have nothing to do with the leeching mages and are not required to sell leech. Solo leechers can and do also use looter clients, so also a moot point.
-TC also requires concentration over an extended period of time and isn't "brainless". Then in the same breath you say that pressing Alt+Esc+Meteor/Blizz/Gen requires skill? Both are just a test of concentration and timing.

The Petri market is in decline, as well as Skele. The price of leech and ability to get buyers has also declined. The whole point of update 65.1 was to give AMs a goal after Petri, but now with the 3 weak mage meta of selling leech being the only viable way to sell Duku, players like myself who have invested a lot into one single mage are placed in an awkward position. Why can't we both have a place to sell leech?

 

Second comment literally says he thinks trio duku shouldn't be a thing? lol. Lot of other ignorant things being said. And in a perfect world, the two can co-exist but unfortunately if both DP1 and DP2 give the same amount of exp, who's actually gonna buy trio duku? It's much easier finding a partner or buying solo, so while you can easily state you don't wanna get rid of it, balancing is not that simple. It's just the nature of it, when one thing gets buffed, the other will indirectly get hit.

To your points,
1. Different tiers, how? Both are end game leech. Nobody is selling duku solo.
2. No the middle mage can't 3 hit. Yea try mixing in a 3hit mage with two 2hit ones and see how that works out for you. Would throw sellers off way too much + potential to mess with spawn rates will still be there. Also the MW20 is factored in to the petri seller's 10b which I mentioned earlier so not sure what you're saying, my argument was mostly for the point that it does require funding (not just 3 naked mages)
3. You make it sound like these are 2 separate things. You do it while selling leech + making funds. 2 in 1. You don't level it naked, then farm mesos to gear it. Don't make it sound like it's harder than it is.
4. My point about the looter client was not that it's required to sell leech, but just that it adds into the difficulty of actually doing it (since people think it's such an easy task.)
5. My point about TC is that once you know a map's spawn and rotation, you can just auto-pilot it. But yes I think we can both agree here that each test your concentration and timing.

While I do acknowledge that the skele market has taken a hit, I think petris is fine. If we could all eat, that's the best case scenario. Skele sellers too. But I think what you're proposing could potentially eliminate the need for trio duku since everyone would just buy DP2 leech. It is what it is, the current meta as it stands trio duku is rewarding but requires a lot more than this thread is making it out to be. Also you can't ruin that meta or forcefully change it simply because you aren't reaping any benefits. I'm sure sellers/buyers (who are getting better exp for their money) are fine with it. The recent macro change was definitely the best thing they could have done as it was a step in balancing trio duku. It was way too easy before. The option to play meta-game or not is entirely on you.

 

the fact that you come on forum with new acc to flame bait just so you can keep abuse and support the broken multiclient mule farming with naked mages meta says enough

we share same market if people find way to abuse some part of the game we all get affected or even forced to adapt to it
(is really not that hard to adapt,especially in case where you 2hit,low lvl mage alt-tabing ulti spam after haveing high lvl funded mages)
and you can't have both things going on either we solo mage high lvl and funded or we go for 2,3 or 4 naked low lvl mages alt tab ulti at ulu1,duku...

but hey you guys want it keep on doing i don't mind but good luck balanceing the powercreep-market later on

 

Yo bro @Zancks, I didn't miss an important point. Google "is an opinion feedback" and get back to me. Also my intention was never to attack OP, I understand where he's coming from and he has some valid, logical points. I used the pronoun "you" in my replies not directly addressing him, but just in general to those reading. And let's say that these proposed changes go through. By buffing DP2 you'd ruin the market for trio duku. If it's the same exp, but cheaper and easier to find sellers/partners, who's gonna buy trio duku? What about bishops who can't sell at DP2 then? How do they fit in to all this? Gotta rework that map/spawn rates too to keep it competitive then.

@MaiAh I knew someone would mention the fact that it's a new forum account, and of course it was you. Sorry not all of us are constantly on here to share our illuminati theories and conspire against multi-clients. It's crazy you've been a member for over 3 years yet haven't contributed anything of relevance to this discussion. Don't even think you read my previous replies up there. If it's not that hard to adapt to the meta, as you say, then adapt to it instead of complaining about it. Simple. It's like this in every video game, get with it or get lost. Also if they got rid of ulu farming and duku tomorrow, I wouldn't care. Not "abusing" or "supporting" anything. It's just moving on to the next thing at that point.

 

there is no need to hide on new forum acc ,come with your main and say what you got to say instead of hideing like that and throw flamebait-pity inuslts
you started with:
"High level mages who can't sell duku qq-ing about how broken it is"

if thats not broken i don't know what is broken... in a game where we are meant to progress,fund,explore,enjoy,get fair rewards...
we are outdone by naked low lvl mules alt-tabing ulti spam

there is no way solo mage to get viable with all that going on let alone high lvl-funded mage
but i don't mind like i said market/gameplay-fast gameAGEing show the side effects of that "get with it or get lost"

i gues i take "get lost" and wish you good luck with future discussion in this thread

 

So toxic lol

 

I think an interesting way to balance would be changing the leech level of Duku itself. If it were pushed back by 5-10 levels the other locations would be able to compete easier. This way all locations have a distinct place in end game leeching, Petri & Skele would compete against each other for the post Ulu2 leechers and Duku would be objectively the best choice once you reach 115 (if the monster were pushed to level 120, not saying that's the best level just for example)

From my own leeching experience at Petri, level 105 to 110 takes 2 hours if your buyers are splitting. This is a usual stopping point for many users as this is the minimum level required to leech at Duku. If this were bumped up to 115, you're looking at about another ~3 hours added onto the initial which would greatly help both Petri and Skele with pre 4th job users.

This obviously doesn't speak to your main points, making Duku soloable for higher level A/M, but it seems like it would be easier to implement rather than changing the map itself and the game mechanics of being lower level making your leech better exp/hr. I don't want to derail your thread, but in the spirit of balance I thought this might also be a fair approach

 

Why would reworking DP2 kill trio Duku? My suggestion aims to allow a solo AM to provide the same exp (40m-42m) to 2 buyers as trio Duku does to 3 buyers, assuming a tight TC rotation. It would still require a 1350 TMA AM with good TC, not like anybody could just hop in and do it. Its the same amount of exp to the buyer and would therefore cost the same (70m-80m per slot). Opposing a balance change strictly on the basis of "it will affect my market" is a weak and greedy argument, and so far, thats the only argument I've heard against this change. We all gotta eat, remember?

A valid point, and something to consider. It just makes for a very awkward progression through leeching tiers. Low level (for BS) progresses to Ulu 1/2 (for all mage), then to Petri/Skele as gear/level improves, standard progression. Then to reach the highest tier you sell your main mages gear and make 2 more weak mages and trio client? Almost makes more sense for someone to just stick with Ulu 1/2 leech while they make additional mages to sell Duku and skip Petri/Skele entirely, and thats exactly what I've seen some people doing.

 

@MaiAh Like I said, this is my forum account...lol. I made it to join in this discussion, to which you've had nothing positive to contribute. And like I said, doubt you're even reading my posts, so there really is no reason to reply to you anymore. As it stands, duku is high reward for the amount of work that goes into doing it, which you're clearly not interesting in putting in (so you resort to calling it broken using arguments against multi-clienting LMAO?)

Wait isn't this entire thread based on the fact that your market has been affected?... +1 for Nerd's suggestion and I'm out. OP I don't really care enough to continue posting here, good luck bro. If it's gone tomorrow and solo duku becomes the meta, I'm fine with adapting to that. But we'd still have to address the fact that bishops won't be able to sell there if that becomes the new best end game spot.

 

Partially. The only difference is I'm trying to give something so a subset of players can join the market, as opposed to actively trying to stop them from joining the market at all. You wanting to keep solo AMs out of the Duku market is no better than others wanting to eliminate trio Duku completely, something you've lamented on this whole thread. Theres no reason to get emotional. If you or others feel Bishops need a boost, make your own thread.

For someone who "doesn't even care, bro", making a forum account just to comment and flamebait others multiple times over the course of a day while continuing to edit comments doesn't show that.

That being said, I'm still waiting to hear a sound argument from anybody as to how this isn't a reasonable change, all I've heard is from trio Duku sellers who are upset they may have competition.

 

So your entire thread is weak and greedy? LMAO. No, I'm not "actively trying" to stop you or anyone else from entering the market. Go do it. LOL. The only thing stopping any of you is either the fact that you're not acknowledging the work needed and/or willing to put it in. So you want an easy fix (that would only benefit you and potentially cause other balance issues)

What subset of players? Because this would only benefit strong solo AMs...which is why I stated that we'd need to start thinking about how bishops fit into all this. Don't think bishops need a buff at all actually. Lament? LMAO BRO...I literally said that if it's gone tomorrow it wouldn't make a difference to me. If selling snail leech became meta I'd do it.

+ this forum was made because I've decided to actively use it after recently joining. Anyway I really don't care, think what you want. Just don't address me with baseless accusations and I'm good, really not tryna partake in this any longer.

TLDR: Stop qq'ing, thread was created because you're not enjoying the current meta because you aren't gaining anything from it. Every game has a meta which not everyone will enjoy. You all have the option to partake, if that's what you want. Don't @ me anymore