In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

After testing, a decently geared arch mage using the secondary wand in boss can clear in about 11 min and leave 23+ min for bonus. I tried both F/P and I/L. Demons, Slow, freezing and Mist help with controlling minis. If you pie it can go below 10 min. But pie is impossible to get off-season and cheese is horribly inflated. I'm assuming cauldron and boba are too. This provides some gating against mules who only have a mediocre fire/ice wand and no MW20. But bishop is hit the hardest as they already had the worst boss clear time and also take longer in the first two rooms.

The 25% nerf is just an unnecessary insult and doesn't solve anything on top of the lowered bonus time vs. certain attackers who also do fine in bonus. Particularly bad for bishops, though also annoying for FP since their room has always been shit. So now we have farming content and the staff suddenly want attackers to excel in that too over mages. Strange attitude shift considering rose garden has several mage-friendly design choices like the 3 rooms and holy weakness on the boss.

Also keep in mind the RNG in the first two rooms can be cruel, particularly the one with the kids.

Speaking of mules, there were plenty of attackers going to rose garden and some did full bonus like that hero/paladin I camped 35mins for, so the talk as if mages are the spawn of Satan should stop. Also remember they pretty much need MW20 and Gen30 to do well so solo mage mule factory has extra costs vs. the ulu/pepe crew.

 

Are you appling? That makes more sense if you are then.

But if you read in these comments people’s rates and their general vibe, I think the pure meso print problem is resolved for the most part. I doubt most people run bonus on more than 2 charas by the end of next week with these rates.

 

I am appling, and what I hear from my friends is the exact opposite, they mostly get 31-35 mins of bon on melees and its basically more meso.
I think it's definitely still an issue if you can use 4 apples and make around 200m/h on a melee char (considering its only 40 mins).

 

I think it’ll exist as an issue with end game players but they’re such a small % of the community.

These nerfs basically knocked off the mage gardeners and early to mid game players which make up a much larger chunk.

I didnt have any issue at all today when I did RG at 3 different times today. I think the playrate went down a lot.

But its been one day so lets wait it out a bit more to see

 

189 Corsair
Before Changes: (Used Energizer) I would get about 20-25 bees, map 1 or 2. Map 2 is just more fun to traverse as a Corsair, not sure if it was more effective. Thouroughly disliked how long the whole RG was and the boss only has 3 attacks, all easily dodged, just an HP sponge. I got a CS my first run ever, which was hilarious and awesome. I enjoy new content to royals as it comes but RG was a bit unbalanced, anytime people are running on multiple accounts to do one thing, it's OP.

After Changes: (Apple then Gizer after boss) Quick clear of stages and Boss, which I enjoyed, and the increased NPC interact distance is appreciated. But can we enable it with the "NPC chat key" so I don't have to use the mouse, just for QoL. Got 18 bees on my first go, not bad. I'd say it doesn't feel very nerfed to me as a strong attacker. I miss the box and quest turn-in part, I thought it was cute. Based on conversations with other players using lackluster attack gear, the 40min total times seems unfair. The bonus should be a set time of 20/25 min to make it a little better for them.

I could run on my 5x attackers or level up my mages to farm it, I just choose not to. It's not necessarily fun to do over and over for me. My suggestion would be to make RG even more profitable but with only one run per IP per day. Though, I'm not sure that's possible. In an ideal world, it should have remained OP for everyone to enjoy, but only in moderation, unable to spam it across accounts. I think this change was a step in a good direction. With the exception of players that main Mages, sorry for your nerf.

 

yea.. nerfed it too much, also rip bishops now boss so hard lol got like 15 mins bon only with 15 bees X-X

 

Got 29 mins on gizer on shad, bucc, pally... (pally was more like 28 minutes but still)

It is my very tentative assessment that this patch was a strong buff for attackers, but people feel discouraged because they perceive it as a nerf.

I suppose it amounts to the same now, but people are going to eventually wisen up and we'll be back at this same problem in 2 weeks.

 

To be fair, Donnie and I are running on attackers 17x-18x, yours are all 200 right, just to clarify.

Its a nerf overall cause CS removal technically but bee rate for attackers shouldn’t not be affected too much, if not at all.

As everyone says here though, mages are donezo.

The demonization of mage mostly stemmed from cost comparisons.

Sure Gen30 is 800-1b (depending on when you buy), but most mages I knew werent running mw20. Besides those books, most attackers with a perf lvl 100 wep and 40cgs is around 40b, not including wash of course:

• 100 wep 18-22b
• 18glove 8b
• 14cape 4b
• 10 shoe 5b

Mages on average were netting higher than attackers by 20-30% on similar pots (gizer, spellbounds)

ex: my bucc gets 22 bees avg, a 1 shot skele FP is averaging 28, which is a very reasonable number, not like some people saying all mages average 45-50.

A 1 shot skele fp might be like a 5-6b of funding at like 180, maybe not even, 8-10b if they have MW20.

However, I think the mage specific nerfs were too hard. I think the bee % nerf was plenty, there wasn’t a need to slap the boss hp like that with a total timer.

Mage Bee nerf, attacker boss hp nerf, and cs removal was all I really wanted.

 

Mage is a bit different gear wise and the emphasis seems to be more on time invested and harder untradables (arch mages having to *buy* all their untradables, helm int vs. helm dex, htp vs mon, quest medal, dojo belt is hell on arch mage). Of course there's VL belt but that's extreme and only for the truly ultra rich to gamble. Perfect wands/staves if you want to go there and 50+ EP are nearly impossible to buy and must be self scrolled, unlike other classes where you can wait for perfect KC/RC etc. to pop up once a fortnight. Have only seen perfect poison wand for sale twice in recent memory, and good shoe surfaces maybe once a year. I get what you're saying though since wa matters more vs ma so there's less room for error.

I was 1-shotting skele on my FP with MW20 at like 150 . This FP was getting like low 30 bees pre-nerf, though one round had insane RNG and he got 40+. The 19x I/L was getting 35-45, but the last three pre-nerf rounds were horrid and yielded only like 33 each.

Mages may not use attacker potions but seem to be burning tons of (p)elixirs, at least enough to make PE and E inflate to 14k and 9k respectively. I washed mine too much so I can only guess.

Thank you for reiterating the 45-50 pre-nerf average for all mages was a misconception, some of us felt like we were living in a parallel dimension.

Agree with one or another or max 2 for the nerfs but not all 3 (buffed boss, eating into bonus, -25%). I want to say I'd drop the 25% and keep the other two nerfs to reward the funded arch mages that can kill the boss under 12min, though bishops do need to be taken into consideration since they are getting punished the hardest despite funding. At least let Cecilia warp to the room of our choosing so they save 10s

Spoiler

Let's be real here, some people just had it OUT for this class. You can tell from their posts.

 

Instead of spamming ult, try to utilize other skills as well! You only need to use them to deal >20% of the damage to avoid the decreased spawn rate (chain lightning is so fun ngl) rip bs but they are already the best

As far as I can tell, the number of income does align with my expectation. Although the Rose Garden provides an excellent solo grinding experience, I don't think it should generate more meso than team-oriented boss runs, which are fundamental to any MMORPG game.

 

At least it’s known bishop is best :shrug:

On a real note:

blowing off bishop is blowing off 80%+ of mages. Knowing bishops take up the majority of mages should be used to boost the economy. This content isn’t going to boost the creation of fire poison or ice lightning mages. Or at least not at any notable difference from what it currently is.

 

i think that partying at LHC should be the focus of EXP. rose garden as a source of EXP should be irrelevant. Rose garden should = meso. Otherwise it’s just more of what we already have. Basically meaning this content is nothing new to anybody. It’s more fun to train in a party with people anyways. If I have to choose between exp alone or exp with people, with people will always win. Why double up on exp? We need some variety here imo.

 

I think this is wrong, mage mains can chime in here and correct but, I was under the strong impression IL was the best. Map 2 was great size wise, lower hp than 3, and was Ice weak.

While funded FP/BS were averaging 28-34 bees, I heard funded ILs were averaging like 32-38bees.

The content I’m not sure was out long enough to boost new AMs to 170, but I knew plenty of people who got levels on their AMs to run Rose Garden cause they were floating in that 16x territory.

My issue with this is that

• Only IL has a good alternative mobbing skill, Angel Ray and Paralyze are single target
• Who would want to invest in both a strong Ice and a Lightning Wand. Also, I’m not even sure where Lightning Wand comes from. CL isn’t worth using without elemental amplifiers from elemental wand/staffs

It is more fun to party I believe but RG was so appealing cause recruiting is so ass. Especially when many times let’s say a 5man HT party:

• Takes a good 15-25 mins to get all the people needed for the run
• 10mins to get everyone situated at peak.
• Additional 5-15mins for looking for buyer or a pt member needs to do elixir quest.

And occasionally you’ll get the scuffed runs, the example above is a relatively normal experience.

You’ll get the classics:

• My dog/cat are doing “x”
• Ganked by mom
• UberEats brb real quick //eats the food while whole party waits
• Buyer trolling
• Someone doesn’t have manon and is crying about manon hunters while not taking responsibility of preparing elixir before runs
• etc.

 

I can respect and agree with your views even if we share different perspectives.

 

My understanding is bishops were luring the bottom to alternate sides with TCing Genesis and climbing up to hit 3 platforms at once.

They reported less consistent numbers than I/L because this is extremely affected by RNG and TCing success. Higher highs and lower lows.

The other mages can't do this in their rooms because of 1) slow monsters 2) freezing for I/L 3) frozen rose's magic attack 4) short platforms for I/L room. Well F/P can attempt the golem room but they'll be worse than bishop as their ulti is slower and elquines freezes which interferes with luring.

 

I like this idea too, or maybe twice per week on each char.

I'm not a fan of this combined timer, to summarize:

Pros +
- Less overall time needed now, more time to boss and chill, less congestion. While I enjoy grinding, running several RGs then logging off is not how I want to spend my time ideally.
- Mages are not OP in injecting mesos now

Cons -
Widening gap between endgame players and average players
- They take more time to kill boss than endgame players, take more hits to kill mobs in bonus.
Perhaps it is intended, but at least prior to changes, with a fixed time, average players are not as heavily penalized.

- First 2 stages being dependent on RNG, something players cannot control on their end. Feels frustrating at times.

There were several mentions of shifting rewards from pure mesos to things that could encourage average players to attempt Von Leon eg Gelts, I thought that was a great idea that killed 2 birds with 1 stone, but now the gap is instead widened.

Agreed, just ran it on my average geared BS and really felt like shit, kept looking at the timer wondering when this is going to end

 

Goodbye Rose Garden
Nerf let me spend less time to play this game
G_G

 

Just wanted to share some data from my lvl 176 Drk. This is for map 1 with the flower mobs.

Pre-nerf (1 gizer + 3 apple bon): I averaged around 24-26 bees.

Post-nerf (1 gizer + 2 apple bon): I averaged 16 bees.

As it is, I take 20 minutes going through first 2 stages and killing boss. That would leave me with less time than before in bon (only 20 minutes). Personally, I'm not a fan of the combined timer. I haven't invested much in gear for my Drk. Just transferred CGs from my main NL to Drk. I'm losing out on more bees because of less bon time. I think keeping a fixed time of 30 minutes in bon would be more fair tbh.

 

+1 for fixed 30 min bonus rooms.

 

Fully agree on the fixed time! But I would suggest not to revert it back to 30 mins.

Let's not forget there are many other variables and tweaks they can possibly do, such as:
- Increasing frequency of bees spawn rate
- Increasing bees movement speed
- Longer time before bees expire or making it permanent up to x bees
- Lower/Increase mesos per bees
- Making bees automatically chase after you (favors non mage/bs more)
- Map tweaks (e.g. many complaints about Map 1 being not as good)
- So on and so forth..

Out of all these options, let's not take away more of our most precious resource - Time!