In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

That is okay because today compensated for yesterday


Never got so high before. rng works in unknown ways. also echoed, mw20, appo-ed 3x

 

Anyone else think the ring drop rate should be higher? Maybe a guaranteed ring every 3-5 kills perhaps? I’ve done rose garden for like 2-3 weeks straight and no ring drop at all.

 

I agree. I've ran 43 times and have seen 2 rings. If the droprate is intended to be this low, then I'd rather see it removed altogether. If staff wants to have the equality in rewards stay somewhat equal, I'd rather have NX lowered and ring increased. As mentioned before, the value of RoA isn't really affected by this ring as it would still be a 170+ grinding for one untradeable slot whilst RoA is useful for washing, starting at bossing (135+) and has tradeable flexibility like CapeGloveShoes. It's looking like a maybe 5% dropchance on ring, maybe something like 10% could be considered. That's still a 0.5% droprate for a godly ring.

Edit: 15%-25% look like they should also be considered.

 

At 10% drop rate, it's 9.8 years to get perfect mainstat on a ring, on average (and that could be ANY offstat, even 0). Why not like 20%, with the option to get more rings from trading in etc items/meso/totems, acting as a meso/totem sink.

It's pretty clear at current rates this content isn't run for the ring - it's run for farming insane amounts of meso and purification totems (which are effectively worth meso), and it definitely has issues with the farming rates.

 

i wanted to post the same thing--going on 2 weeks dry

 

Did something change or was my run just in the top 0.3% of runs? I did the math and it was just 3 standard deviations above my previous average.

 

See you all at the 20th year anniversary with my 7/7/7/7 ring

 

I also hope the discussions are still ongoing with regards to considering fixed time for earlier stages and reducing bonus time duration (rates can be kept same), as all the last patch did was to mega nerf mages/bs, people still need to spend 40mins per char, which is a lot even on one char.

Can we do like half the time or somewhere in between like 25mins? Could be something like Stage 1 (10mins max) + Stage 2 (10mins max) + Boss (15mins max) + Bonus (10-15mins + select room to warp)

 

Hey it also buffed attackers who are skipping bonus. That's now a 300m/hr single client farming method, if you have the attackers geared. Seriously, nerf boss totem drops, remove the 25% ult nerf OR make bonus timer separate, and make the ring more accessible and then the content is in a great spot imo.


Anyways here's my stats, post-change:

Total, I have done 41 runs of Rose Garden, which has gotten me 2,167 purification totems, 3,625m pure meso from bees, 2 rings, and 129k NX. I have not gotten a single ring 30% drop from the boss.

I've been running roughly twice a day, on 1500 tma bishop (+45 from lollipop) and ~13k range crushed skull paladin (including echo/peppermint but not MW since I don't have enough SP for even mw10).

My bishop's bee average, including that extreme 32 bee outlier, is 19.55 bees/run.
My pally's bee outlier is 18.44 bees/run (~1.11 bees below bish, or 8.25m/hr difference)
My totem average is 52.85 totems/run
My NX average is 3307.69 NX/run

Assuming the real totem average is 50, NX average is 3500, then, totems are worth 800k/ea, and NX is worth 3m/1k:
- Bish is making 148.25m/run, or 222.375m/hr on average
- Paladin is making 142.7m/run, or 214.05m/hr on average

Keep in mind endgame skele leech I calculate at roughly 180m/hr, and mage farming has been hard to find accurate numbers on, but usually I see values around 200-300m/hr, with only the most dedicated and hardcore (or adding event drops) going above that.

Here's my questions to the devs/balancers and community:

1. What should this content be intended for? Farming meso/items, or the new ring?
2. What meso/hr should mages get from this content? (And of the 3 mages, what should rates be like for each?) Keep in mind this is relatively chill single client farming, unlike multi mage farm.
3. What meso/hr should attackers get from this content (and should some be getting lower rates like NLs do right now? If so how much lower?)
4. What meso/hr should multiclienters/more degenerate farmers get from this content? As in, people who make characters specifically targeted to farm this content. Think people on the level of old IL mage LHC farmers, or even more insane.
   1. What's the theoritical max amount of meso/hr anyone should possibly get from this?

Here's my personal answers:

1. Mostly run for the ring, with a short period of optional good farming IF you're already going for the ring. Make it so that it's not worth to farm if you don't care about the ring, but if you do want ring it's worth it to run bonus.
2. Mages should be getting around 130-160m/hr max, with ILs earning the most and bishops earning the least.
   1. That number includes boss + bonus. If you've already killed the boss, bonus should be >200m/hr, but short enough to balance out.
3. Attackers should be earning 80-120m/hr. No real preference on rates dependent per class, but that'll be hard to balance.
   1. Same as before, that's total profit including bonus. Killing just boss and leaving should be < 60m/hr, and bonus should be tempting to run.
4. Multiclienting should not be allowed. Farming this content should never exceed 200m/hr.

 

tfw you do RG daily but you don't follow the patch notes that tightly:

 

can you clarify how youre calculating token value? im not saying youre wrong but i'd like to know

 

on a side note, my worst run on my 12.5k range dk (mw20 echo stopper, apple on stage 2) my lowest number of bees have been 20 and my highest has been 41 avg being high 20's

 

There's some old threads that estimated the value and I believe that's around what they got. From personal experience it doesn't seem too far off, with the ability to get cs/ws/bwg/taru all at pretty good rates, along with a few other desired items like elewand7 and sky ski

 

Giving my 2 cents once more post-nerfs; 189 FP.

I get through the first two room in about 5 minutes on average.
The boss takes about 9 minutes. I use 4x cheese and swap to an ele-wand 6 for this. (~1720 tma)
Leaves the average bonus room about 26 minutes. (duh)

Totem average is ~51, NX average is ~3.2k. No other notable drops :cri: .
I average ~24 gold dust, which mostly lines up with my etc drop count. (ETC drops X 0.0375)
Subtracting cheese/potion/rock/net costs, I'm averaging ~240 mil/hr from RG.

The mage ultimate nerf kinda feels bad at times, cause I certainly get bee droughts, but obviously the income overall is still fine.
Not gonna say this content needs to make any specific amount of mesos/hr, but if it falls at or around 200 mil/hr, I don't really have a reason to do it over leeching. It obviously has it perks: can be done on my own time, is a shorter time commitment, etc; but considering the investment to reach this point on an arch-mage, I feel I should be earning more from this daily than I would from Skele/Petri leeching.
Also, I'd really like if the ring had a higher drop rate than it does. Maybe I'm just ignorant here, but it feels weird that it so rare given it's un-tradeability and level req. Krex's ring is about as good and infinitely more accessible, and it's not like RG rings invalidate RoAs. So unless I am missing something, I don't understand the low drop rate.

My only other grievance continues to be room 1; I really would like if it got some kind of rework. If there were small transitional platforms that didn't require, or at least mitigated, the offensive amount of rope climbing necessary to navigate that room, I would have a lot more fun with it personally. I'd even take the monsters getting an HP (and exp f3) buff if it balanced out the newfound mobility introduced with those platforms. Another possibility is just taking away some of the platforms on the corners/edges of the map locked to yet even more rope climbing. Getting bees that hide in those far off platforms really stops the flow of the map, something the other two maps don't have nearly as bad. In a world where I had the power to change it, this is how I'd lay out room 1.

[Not drawn to scale, or well, at all. Add red delete blue. Also forgot the upper middle platform *shrug*.]

 

To add to this, far top left, far top right and mid top kinda grief hunting bees in the 1st map. I wish I'd remember third map but it's been a while.

 

Ring drop rate ^ please. Echo-ing what people have said earlier. Feels like 5% or less

 

Thank you for the mount fix + room 1 knockback fix.

With the fixes + 1.3x anniversary drop rate = I'm getting around 50-60% more bees than usual (180 hero)

Since the drop rate affects room 1/2 clear time + bee rates.

 

NL

full stoppers
15bees and 254-178=76 burning energy

I believe boss should drop burning energy too.

 

updated with apple



100 burn energy 22bees

I believe burning energy is not balance atm, compare to Totems, it is harder to get.
I am having 1400 totems.
( server only around 5~10 people willing to cs VL belts, and very few ppl craft manuals , that's why no one cares)
Garden Golem should drop burning energy 100% , boss should drop some too . only Golem no drop burning energy is the boss

 

Meanwhile on paladin farming everyday since RG release


That tough NL life