In Discussion Content Rose Garden Nerf/Adjustments

I don't know what I came to do, just say hello and say that my mom is the best, hello mommy! oh right, I miss when I got 30 bees + that adrenaline when my friend @Dann , He told me, I've been 20 bees , oh no, I've been 22 bees and so while we were fighting for discord to see who was doing more, at odds, what a time: c, anyway Hello mom, again haha

 

Do you have numbers to back up your claim of 800k/totem?

Why is using APR prices dishonestly low? 8.5m per reset is the upper end of selling APRs. Using gach as a reference is dishonest in itself because it's RNG based and you can get 0 mesos in return. Futhermore, why are you nitpicking a 2m difference as dishonestly low? That seems dishonestly petty.

How much does 39 cgs cost? And how much does it cost to gear a mage to sell leech at Petris or Skeles or mage farm?

Why is it easier to farm RG then to just spam Teleport + Gen/Met/Blizz?

How much money did you invest into your 4th job mage then?

And yes, you are playing the wrong class if you want to deal damage to bosses to as a mage. That's just the unfortunate reality of this server: mages aren't usually considered DPS in bosses.

And no, I don't assume every mage sells leech and makes 150m+/hr. I just assume it's easy if someone wants to make a mage to sell leech and make 150m+/hr. It's relatively easy (compared to gearing attackers with CGS) to level and gear a mage to 1 Hit Petris and even easier to equip and level a Bishop to 1 hit Skeles. I also see a fair amount of people smegaing to buy leech at these prices.

Also why the fuck do you both care about mages being the absolute best at making mesos? Even if they buff RG mage farming (Ice Valley 2) will still be the best way of making money both in terms of efficiency and being unlimited. You can literally farm for hours and hours and no one will come close.

Do you two really want RG nerfed that badly? I didn't care about how much money mage farming made until now but speaking to you both makes me want to advocate for the staff to gut mage farming. Let's just nerf everything instead since no one can have nice things.

 

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/results-from-2575-lhc-totems.195508/

Gach has a long term average of more than 1:3 I chose 1:3 as a conservative amount. If you really care strongly about perfectly stable income, wait until miwok and sell enchanted scrolls. Last year that was 1:4.

Mine's worth ~15b. Gearing an optimized skele mage (lv 139) to sell for 140m/hr I'd estimate around the same. Mage farm is mostly so much more profitable in comparison not because of setup costs but because of how soul-sucking it is to do.

Going to assume most of the rest wasn't meant towards me so I'll skip it.

Because if they're not then it's literally pointless to ever make a mage? As you said, mages are worthless for bosses. And one again, mage farm is absolutely miserable and soul-sucking to do, and is only minorly better, if at all compared to pre-nerf.

 

If you must know, I've probably invested nearly 100B on my mage (with not as much as others to show for it), but that's besides the point. I have personally leeched for mesos less than 5% of my total net worth.

Very true, and I don't expect them to be, but here's the thing: I am part of the minority in this server who doesn't intend on maining an attacker. Because of that, I personally am never invited to boss runs. Please understand that while people are forced to make a 4th job mage to farm and make mesos, I am also forced to make an additional character just to have the ability to "have fun" and do more than be kicked out of every party after using HS/dispel/res. Imagine being excluded from a majority of the content this game has to offer because of a restriction/weakness that your class has.

Good for those who make it big by literally grinding out hours of levels for other people as well as themselves to save time creating a mage in exchange for mesos as a service. Easy? Depends on who you ask. Time consuming and boring as fuck? Most definitely. Do you think people actually enjoy selling leech for mesos because I sure as hell hate that it's one of the only reasons people even play the classes; You also have other options for playing the game. If you don't find them fun, well then then idk what to really tell you because some of us are in the same boat.

This is an entirely different argument. I don't care about mages being the best at making mesos. I care about game balance. More importantly, I care about the game's economy. Being able to just generate straight mesos out of thin air in solo-play leans in the direction of the current official game. With moderation it may still be okay, but without significantly nerfing RG altogether (including all classes), the game literally becomes the pointless end-game daily spam of most modern RPGs. I mean think about it. Why bother making an attacker if you aren't going to use it for the one thing they're designed for? (Bossing w/ a Party).

Uh yes. But also, I'm not opposed to gutting leeching too since it encourages laziness (especially for prospective attackers). I've never been about it so if you think I'm advocating for the "You must leech to be the 0.01% of top players" then you're wrong. I'm all for time investment = reward so long as it's not "kill these for an ungodly amount of pure mesos".

Also let's make one thing clear: I am not attacking you or your feedback. While most of my opinions align with @fuzzything44, I have no intention of invalidating yours. This is a feedback post and I'm staying on topic so please do the same since the goal here is to provide the staff with the information they need to properly adjust the content.

 

Do we still get 25 totems per run?

 

Pre-nerf (pre-anni event) my average was 51/run. During anni it was only 56, but I think I got unlucky the last couple days and it was ~60 for most of it. Post-nerf seems roughly halved to 25, my average so far is 25.25

 

Hi may I know if there’s any chance of the bee spawn rate increasing? I don’t mind the bee capping but having them spawn at a higher rate would be nice

 

I personally can reach cap so it’s more for players who aren’t lv200 or are mid game that suffer from the low spawn rate.
I think 7.5-10% would be good.
The only problem I foresee is having a higher spawn rate would mean more time for others to use different chars to farm RG.
I only use one char so unless there’s a limitation to how many times one can enter RG per IP this might be a problem.

in any event, if I were given a blank cheque to decide on the spawn rate I would give it 10% since for single client players it wouldn’t make much of a difference except saving time.

 

sorry i did not mean making RG 1 time a week. I think 1 time a day is perfectly fine since the drop rate for the ifia ring is already so bad even at 1 time a day.

What do you think about having bees move towards the character instead? That would be great for characters that have bad mobility so they dont have to chase bees across the map.

 

Here is the case for the strong but limited to maybe 2x a week RG:

Some complaints with RG v1 and v2 (consider current RG v3) that will be addressed by limiting entry:
1) RGstory where people with limited time just go to RG and logoff on weekdays, and people with lots of time go to RG on 5+ characters daily neglecting other aspects of the game especially bossing
2) Pure meso generation
3) Feeling of missing out if you don't RG
4) Totem spam (but really, those green lines aren't too common anymore)
5) RG being overpowered in drop events, and eating into time for event activities
6) (for v1, rarely for v2): All channels occupied especially after work hours in Asia
7) RG fatigue. I know some people who despise it now

The main argument against limited RG is the ring which has a terrible drop rate now. That can be remedied by increasing the drop rate or making it guaranteed godly. Remember you can get a godly 1 STR high def ring like I did so it's not a free ride to your dream 7/7.

Another argument might be DC but... DC is just sad for everything. You can DC in VL too...

 

I just started farming bees, so I don't know how broken it previously was. However, 6 runs in and I am starting to feel frustrated, so I just want to rant a little.

I feel that the game experience can be better if the bees spawn more consistently, especially since there is a cap on the number of bees. The downside to an unlucky run (lost of meso/h for the day despite spending the time there already) is greater than the upside of a lucky run (I save a few minutes that I was already willing to spend to reach the cap).

I completed 6 runs, 4 runs with 21 bees, 1 run with 18 bees, and 1 run with 15 bees.
In those 4 runs with 21 bees, one run had 5min extra, another had 3mins extra, while the other two had slightly less than 1min extra. In those 2 runs that I didn't complete, I even used a slightly better atk pot (enchanted peppermint over gizer) at the 20min mark as the bee count was lower than usual. Still, it wasn't enough.

This happens mostly because bees are not spawning even though I am actively killing them for >5mins. 1/8 of the entire run is gone like that.
In one of the runs where I barely made it in time, the timer shows 7min and I had 19bees. 5 mins later the timer shows 2min and I still had 19 bees. Luckily the last 2 came in time but it just feels so annoying, frustrating, and ridiculous.

It just feels so frustrating when in some luckier runs I have extra time that can't be ported over, while in the unluckier runs, I lose out on daily mesos.

Also, it's just so annoying when bees spawn at the other end of the map.

In other areas, good RNG can balance out bad RNG. But for RG, bad RNG is more painful which hurt the game experience. I can't farm 30 bees (good RNG) in 1 day to balance 10 bees (bad RNG) in the next day due to the cap.

TLDR: the game experience can be better if the bees spawn more consistently. I don't know if this is a good idea, but if the bees spawn at 5%, then every 20 mob killed spawns a bee instead.

 

I personally also don't think a cap is the best long term solution, and hope to see it removed with the larger rework. For now though it works fine as a stopgap measure, but since it has little (technically nonzero) effect on changing actual meso/hr rates it doesn't do much to stop this from being fully farmed if someone's dedicated.

Keep in mind this would (if nothing else changes) also buff rates for the stronger classes, letting them clear quicker and run more characters. You're asking for a significant meso/hr buff. I think to do this in a balanced way, it'd be best to reduce the amount of mobs in map 1, and then increase bee spawn rates from those mobs. For multi target classes that are hitting them all anyways, there'd be a smaller difference than for single target classes like BM/NL. This would definitely need testing on FP/shad though to confirm.

And here's another issue that comes from the cap. Sadly, it makes unlucky runs worse than lucky ones. It's why I hope in the larger rework it's removed, or changed to a softcap where bees get rarer the more that spawn.

I do think the decision to combine boss and bonus time isn't helping here. It means higher damage helps in giving you more bonus time, and in giving you more bees for ever minute of bonus. Changing back to a flat bonus time would help a lot here, although I'd advocate to bring the mage nerf back then - it was too much since mages were already getting like 2/3 the bonus time as attackers, but if mages get the same time then they do need a slight nerf.

 

100% agree

 

I'm rolling on floor laughing

 

Since you asked, I'm back again to remind everyone that the Marksman class exists and advocate on its behalf Seems people are mainly focused on BM/NLs so far, so I also want to chime in.

I don't think MMs are too great at RG either, which is kind of sad because this seems like the type of content we *should* be good at! I personally have struggled to get 21 bees consistently now that event is over (at least without apples), and I would guess I'm probably an above-average MM (just comparing my range to the ones here).

The issues we have are:
1. We don't get to have SI. Which especially hurts during the boss, and means we probably take the longest of any non-mage class to kill it. I even struggle to dodge the Golem's knockback attacks sometimes because my attack speed is so slow I get "stuck" in the animation and can't jump out in time. The suggestion I have for this is already in the Skill Balancing thread though. Remove our SI-reliance curse!

2. The other problem is that mob sizes in bonus are too small for piercing arrow to reach its peak effectiveness. We want to be hitting 5-6 ideally. We have this problem in most other content too (Bearwolves is mostly mobs of 4, for example). RG is really the best we've gotten so far, because we can use Dragon's Breath to *sometimes* form those mobs of 5-6 for ourselves. But not often enough, and DB is weak and slow so it cancels out most of the DPS gains. Would be cool if this could be the one piece of content where Piercing Arrow could finally shine.

So what I would personally love to see is actually an increase to the mob counts in the first map. That might also help BMs a bit as well, since it would mean a bit less walking to reach stuff to attack, given that both of us have bad mobility. The problem is it would probably help out already-OP classes like shads even more :/ So maybe not a perfect solution, but maybe someone else can think of a way to counter that. At the very least, I've hopefully brought some awareness to some of our issues so smarter people can give them more thought.