Should spamming be allowed in the FM Entrance?

The main argument against spamming in FM is not necessarily that it's the main hang out place- even though that's definitely true. Even GMs use Ch 1 FM to give out buffs - because it's convenient.
The biggest issue with spamming is that there's not a big enough user base for it to be necessary, and thus currently spamming repeatedly is not only annoying but ineffective. It blocks out other people from being able to get their messages seen and read.

If you have one person spamming "B> Pig ribbons@@@@@@@@@" over and over and over, with one character variation, every second for 30 seconds or longer.. Then how is anyone else supposed to be able to read if someone comes along and says "I have pig ribbons, offer?"
How is someone else supposed to be able to say "Selling x amount of scrolls" and actually have it seen when it's spamming that badly? By one or two people spamming, you're encouraging a chain of reaction that will force others to need to spam in order to be seen.
Our userbase isn't big enough for that to be needed right now, and it likely won't for a while- even if we keep growing. We have ~300+ players online daily, and only maybe 50 are in the FM at once. Only maybe 5 of those people are actually talking and occasionally someone pops in to sell something. Why would it be needed for them to spam it?

Traditionally in GMS, the @@@ symbols were only needed to literally push your message bubble above someone else's. No one could read FM chat with how fast it went by (not to mention the gold seller bots all the time), so by seeing the bubble atop the screen was the only way to see what someone was buying or selling.

We dont have that many people, it's not needed. I don't think it should be bannable. But it should be discouraged. An etiquette rule. Just like selling maps isn't disallowed, but it's discouraged and bad etiquette.

Just my 2 cents, sorry if I repeated a lot.

 

That pretty much is the main argument, the FM being the main hub for meeting people since it's a click away. Because of that reason, people are annoyed by spam. I don't know if you skipped 16 pages of posts or what happened there. If you were somewhere else, the spam wouldn't effect you. ~maya seems like a good idea that no one seems to be expanding on or even considering. Seperating the main hub from the selling/buying/trading hub.
Just trying to say there are alternatives that no one's willing to try because everyone has pretty much made up their own idea of what the FM should be like.

 

maybe we should just let the people who come to socialize move to a different spot. i Think all the sellers/buyers would beg on their knees for us to come back. 10% of the people in fm are actually there to do trade. The rest is just afk or talking.
But when you suddenly see someone is selling what you may need or buying what u have hogging your inv you can talk to them.

You won`t have that now. there will maybe be 10 people in fm and thats it. So why can`t we just live together in harmony. We actually need each other.

For the last time... we are not trying to ban trade, but the SPAMMING. IS THAT SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND????????

 

Honestly, all I've been saying from the gecko is that if you don't like spam, why not request another area to hang out in. AKA ~maya or something you can automatically warp to just as easily as the FM. Everyone against spam immediately makes the point of the FM being a hangout. There are always plenty of other solutions that no one seems to be considering. If someone spams in an area outside of the FM, okay. Maybe then that should be punishable but, this is the FM we're talking about.

 

Ignoring the fact that it's also a hang out, the main fact is that with spam it's hard to properly use the FM for selling/buying. Did you just completely ignore 90% of my post or what?

 

Necessity should not determine whether a person can or cant do something. Since this server does not have a lot of ppl, thus spamming wont really affect ppl except annoyance. The only reason y ppl spam in gms is for their chat to be seem, where the population isn't so great here, if some1 were to talk and sell things to you u can actually c their chat. I'm referring to chat, not ur chat bar. Your chat bar can be filled up pretty quickly with just a few people talking at once either way, so i don't even the point of complaining in the first place. Plus if ur trying to discourage people from spamming i don't see any reason to even post here, since the whole thread was about whether we should allow spamming or not.

 

Which is how in GMS people did this without getting banned despite having more than 2 times as many people at a time spamming while getting stuff sold and bought anyways..

 

I don't think you read my post either. Most of the arguments against spamming in the FM is primarily regarding the fact that it's a hang-out and that spam pretty much blocks out whatever those who are hanging out, are saying. I'm not in any way against you, I'm just trying to provide a suggestion that everyone else seems to be overlooking.
i.e:

In response to that:

ahem-- ~maya

As I said, most of the arguments consist of the FM being a hang out spot. MANY of the other pages consisted of the majority/minority arguments in the poll, which is why those were not included.

Why not try implementing another area for those players that want to socialize to go to?
"~maya" ? I understand that spamming an excessive amount is unnecessary but, if it really bothers you all that much moving to another warp accessible map would help.

 

So here's a really novel idea *cough notreally cough*

Claim FM CH. 8 as your hangout. (or ~maya or whatever map you goddamn like)

Also, people don't seem to understand that the Free Market is named after the idea of a free market (cough capitalismsucks cough) and not an actual "freedom mart", as a lot of you would have it.

 

That's because ~bosshp is the same message as the previous ones you send. If you alternate between multiple messages, it'll be fine as long as it's not super fast.

 

What I really dislike about some of the "so ez, just go somewhere else, claim XX map as your map" suggestions is that you are essentially telling us to gtfo.

Can you NOT have such a simplistic take on the issue? It is really insulting and reductionistic, the issue is far more nuanced than that.

FM1 is the default spot for socialization as well. By telling others to move to 2-8, you are forgetting the fact why FM1 is the most popular spot - trade button and that channel. Even if you tell them to go elsewhere, 2-8 won't even have that many people to begin with for socialization purposes. There has to be an established culture of people going to 2-8 in the first place, and there isn't. So you cannot initiate any interactions should you want to meet new strangers, because, the bulk of them won't even be there.

So in order to do that, some of you suggested an alternative map for hangouts. Which is really just unnecessary work for the staff. My camp has repeatedly said that we can co-exist with the traders just fine, there's no need for that. What's wrong with that?

Spamming harms the spammer because it is an ineffective way to peddle goods.
Spamming harms the FMers because it is annoying and inconsiderate.
Spamming harms other buyers and sellers because it blocks out their messages.

So why don't we just stop spamming?

 

And this is where the chalk board suggestion was good. If traders were expected to go elsewhere, then they would throw this same argument back. But with chalkboards, it will be an effective compromise allowing both traders and chatters to coexist in the same map.

Can't we all agree that nobody should have to move to a different map, and that there will need to be a way that the activities of one group does not intefer with the activities of the other group?


I don't think that sellers are losing anything by no longer having their messages appearing in the chat box (when they use chalkboards). Talking from my GMS experience... I personally have trouble seeing moving targets properly, and that includes fast scrolling text because of people spamming. Even if I do see an item name I am interested in, before my eyes can then attempt to focus on the IGN, it is completely gone. And then even if I manage to determine the IGN, the problem is where on earth in the crowd are they?

Sellers, seriously. If you stand with your chalkboard somewhere in the FM, which is large enough to support all the chalkboards at any one time I'm sure (lets try it before saying it isn't...) then people can quickly walk around reading all the chalkboards, and they will actually be able to find your character to click trade on.

If the concern is OMG new people gonna get banned for @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@, then READ THE DAMN THREAD PROPERLY because nobody on the no spam side wants bans for offenders. Warnings and mutes are just fine.


wasn't this thread supposed to stay on the topic of whether or not chalkboards would be good? Aren't we just going backwards and in circles by continuing this stupid arguement about whether or not spammers should have to change their ways?

 

Exactly! You said that the server does not have much people compared to GMS. You say that spamming will only annoy people. My question to you is: Is it really worth it to allow spamming in the FM, when it just does not bring about any good? Some new players who are not familiar with the culture may just spam in the FM and annoy other people. And you know what? Some even don't stop when people ask them to stop spamming. And what's better is that this rude, inconsiderate, morally wrong, selfish and childish behavior is allowed in the FM.
Is that what you want the FM to be like? By essentially saying that the FM is a place for people to spam (AND SPAM DOES NOT EQUAL TO SELLING AND BUYING IN A CIVILIZED MANNER), you are saying that you are allowing this behavior which is frowned upon by many to be allowed. You know, you are being quite inconsiderate, by saying that spamming should be allowed in the FM.
I have pointed out time and time again that the CC1 FM here is different from GMS. No, it is not a place where spamming is allowed! Instead, it is a place where people can socialize and make new friends, and bond with the community easily. It is already a culture and it will likely never change.
Even you admitted that people can easily see what a seller or buyer wants, unlike GMS. I quote, "The only reason y ppl spam in gms is for their chat to be seen, where the population isn't so great here, if some1 were to talk and sell things to you u can actually c their chat."
Precisely! And you say that spamming, a despicable manner of selling and buying things, should be allowed when clearly people can see what a person wants to buy/sell? The buyer/seller can just repeat their message every ~5 seconds and everyone will be able to see it. So why the need to allow this selfish and inconsiderate behavior? By the way, I don't get what you mean by the difference between the chat and the chat bar.
Before you reply to me, please acknowledge what I have said fully.
And for the people to tell us to go to another channel and whatnot, I think that you are missing something. In Royals, the culture has already evolved to socializing in FM. Thus, the CC1 FM is a place where people socialize and not spam. And we have said countless times that we can coexist with the sellers/buyers (not spammers). If I told you, "Hey, you know what. Since CC1 is a place to socialize, why don't all of you spammers go to CC2-8?"
How would you feel? Angry? Well, that's how we feel when you tell us that.
Thank you.

 

The number of red herrings and strawmans in this is actually quite astounding.

 

Care to point them out?

Telling us to move somewhere else is not a strawman. You are indeed telling us to suck it up or gtfo.

 

Sure.

Ch. 1 has just about as many people on it as the other channels. When you're selecting a channel, most channels are on equal footing with channel 1 with regard to the number of people. I'll grant you that this wasn't true about a month ago, but it is now.

Appeal to tradition and bandwagoning.

You do realize that the "Trade" shortcut is available from all channels, and that changing channels while in the FM isn't exactly back-breaking work, right?

Circular reasoning.

As opposed to policing the FM every single day and banning out people flooding the chat.

 

Apparently you didn't read the part of the conversation where 90% if not more of the people who are against spamming in the FM don't agree with banning being necessary.

 

Yeah I didn't. Brb checking.

 

Is this some kind of joke? YOUR post is all the things you claimed Kerners post was...

How is this relevant?

Okay, you've missed the entire reasoning of Kerner's arguement. Yes, the trade shortcut is available from all channels.
But the problem is that people won't know to check other channels for socialising. It is a well established tradition in private servers to socialise in FM entrance on channel 1 (just like spamming is a well established tradition in GMS)

How? o.o It's stating a valid fact.

Arrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh if you actually READ this thread, you might realise that people do not want bans.


Why is the GMS spamming channel 1 FM entrance tradition more important than the socialising channel 1 FM entrance tradition?

 

First of all I think using nothing but buzzwords and logical fallacies(which are invalid in all the cases below) is not a very helpful way to argue your case. If you want to use some of them, at least elaborate in detail how it is logically fallacious.

Throwing in stuff like "It is astounding how many red herrings and strawmen there are", "Appeal to tradition and bandwagoning" and "Circular Reasoning" without saying anything else is exactly what I mean by responses which are simplistic, dismissive, and frankly unnecessary.

Incorrect. Channels have a similar number of people. Channel FMs don't.

FMs 2-8 only have a few people people hanging around, the reason why those channels have more people now is because they are training, not because they are in FM.

You do realize that the back-breaking work is not the CCing part, but the part where we are getting everyone who wants to socialize to collectively move to whatever new map we are establishing as the "new socialization channel", right?

I've already said that FM C1 is the default. It is hard to change that, unless you are telling us to go around PRing until everyone has it drilled in their head that FM2 is the place to go for socialization. Instead of doing this, why not have everyone co-exist, just without spamming?

Do you now realize how unreasonable and difficult it is to get everyone to agree on where is a common new location to move to, to let everyone know where the said location is at, and for everyone to actually move there?

Circular reasoning =
So you cannot initiate any interactions should you want to meet new strangers, because, you cannot initiate any interactions should you want to meet new strangers.

What I said was =
So you cannot initiate any interactions should you want to meet new strangers, because, the bulk of them won't even be there.

And why won't they be there? As I've already said, it's because FM C1 is the default. That is hardly circular reasoning.

As Sila already said, no one here has advocated a ban.

Your choice of word "Policing" implies that we are always ready to pounce on the spammer. No, we aren't. You are guilty of the strawman now, see, I can play at that game too. It is a strawman because you are misrepresenting our argument - that we want to punish spammers - where our actual argument is that all we want is no spamming, and a very, very light deterrence.

As many of the people here have said already, we are more than prepared to explain nicely to them not to spam, and to only take further action if they are being difficult.