Suggestion to make DrKs more relevant (DrKs have been buffed, irrelevant post)

Why not buff achilles/hex weapon/magic defense buffs or make them stackable? I don't think their damage output is the problem at all, just survivability/access to some bosses.

Warriors are supposed to be tanky inherently through higher weapon defense but it's offset since every class can simply wash. 15% less weapon dmg from achilles isn't really impactful, what about 15% less magic damage as well to tank bigger hits? Or just a higher weapon dmg reduction in general may help drks in particular but isn't gamebreaking for heroes and paladins?

 

Why all the debate when there's already an easy fix deployed in the later version of the game? Make Berserk activate when HP is over 50%.

 

This sounds crazy at first but despite their high hp and HB, drks really only have half hp in 4th job. The hp above 50% basically doesn't exist because maintaining zerk is critical. The hp above it is just a free hit basically

So increasing Achilles isnt as OP as it initially sounds and you're right, no early drk is gonna go for it. Even with elemental resistance in 3rd though, a hypothetical 20% Achilles sounds super op but they have 15K or less health (or half hp) of all other warriors to deal the same damage.

I was gonna suggest something like hex reflects a % of magic damage like power gaurd, or maybe having dragon's blood active in zerk increases zerks damage and magic defense but really the issue seems to be the 30/15k meta.

A gm will say "you don't have to stay in berserk, you don't have to wash, and you can just telegraph the attacks and heal before they happen. Corsairs have to manage on/offing their ship"

But shipping is really easy and sairs dominate dps, and there's no extra dying risk from shipping it's just on/off, just slight pause on attacking, and if you have your summons up it's not very noticeable.
Drks suffer a much bigger damage loss and risk losing out on everything.

Like I said in my thread and other people have brought up, I think zerk scaling would be great, something like:
-160% damage at 70% health
-180% at 60%
-200 at 50%
-205/210 at 40%

Maybe only in zerk, the drk Achilles (lol dragon scales) gets the buff, so if Achilles is maxed and you zerk it raises to 20% reduction in that situation?

 

Many people suggested enhancing the defense mechanism of Dark Knight but that defeats the purpose of this class. Making this class more tanky will only turn it into a pseudo-hero with the HB buff. There needs to be a clear distinction from Heroes. The core essence of Drk is high risk and high reward system. If a Drk ends up staying at 75% hp to produce let's say 175% damage, which won't be easy to maintain, in a tough Boss raid, why would people even play this class when Heroes can simply out DPS them in the comfort zone. There is a reason why @Eli who tried all warrior classes to lvl 200 defines current Drk as a crippled Hero.

That risk is what makes this class unique and special from other classes. There's no other class that risks their life to excel in DPS. However, as many pointed out, there is not enough "reward" to compensate this life-risking maneuver. Weapon attack speeds disfavor Drks since they are inevitably reliant on SI buff to produce a decent DPS - slightly higher than Heroes (yet very similar). Higher damage is the best form of compensation/reward this class can receive to stand out as the true masochist class but there has to be a greater risk.

Based on my experience, 50% is a vaguely high number which I find unnecessary. Pap, Krex, Zak, Shao, HT, neo tokyo bosses and even Toad can be zerked with 40% threshold. Toad will be a lot more challenging than others but the magic attack telegraphs are slow enough for anticipation as long as you stand on the right side at B2 to avoid the tongue attack. Showa boss and Auf are the only 2 bosses in this server a Drk won't be able to raid with 40% zerk due to quick telegraphs or sed spam one simply cannot foresee. This shouldn't be used as a discouraging figure to complain about the uselessness of Drks at the end game bosses. If skillful Drks can excel above Heroes, with necessary risks and buffs, in tons of other area/raid bosses, taking the supportive role for once in 1~2 bosses doesn't sound too bad. Do remember that heroes aren't even welcomed in these 2 bosses. Some bosses are just not meant to favor certain classes.

• Hero class should be available for those who prefer comfortable gameplay with decent firepower.
• Dark Knight class should be revamped for those who prefer thrilling, life-risking (of a char) gameplay but with greater firepower.

 

U got Hb,Stance,Archilles, multitarget high dps spear crusher, and now u wan to kill end game boss wif 50% hp? This is not a buff anymore,this is making darknight advanced to 5th JOB ROFL!

 

Don't literally all warrior classes have Stance, Achilles, and AoE? Also you're really going to pretend like HB actually means anything on a server built around HP washing?

 

buffing defence to make Drk more survivable will make the risks non existent, @sparky95 has mentioned
i would rather see scaling as i have mentioned earlier

and thinking about it, maybe with a little extra risk to balance this effect of damage scaling "buff" to increase the survivability of Drks, without hard damage dropoffs would be to make the damage scale to 200% damage at 40% hp as what @sparky has also mentioned earlier in this thread

so maybe a berserk formula for damage scaling (max hp/1.25 x current hp)% damage with a ceiling of 200% damage, and a floor of 100% damage

like this, a drk who is willing to take more risks, would enjoy the usual 200% damage, but those who would like more survivability, eg. running at 20k hp, would have to run at 120% damage
then the ones who run on a fine line between life and death can still run hp below the survival limit, while healing up just before the next hit, can still run the usual 200% damage

just a rough idea, so the formula can be tweaked for a more exponentially increasing damage near 40/50% hp, or a more exponentially decaying damage near 40/50% hp

 

I only suggested a 5% buff to max Achilles when in berserk. Situationally and level wise I think that's totally fair. Heros and pallys get a 15% chance to block all damage, and Achilles, and don't have to run half dead.

And I was mindful to never mention attack speed with any of the warrior classes but especially drks, anything mentioning it that isn't talking about having a SI buff is overpowered

For pure damage, which I think drks are totally fine on, I made a lot of small synergistic suggestions to their class as a whole in my thread that any combination or similar suggestions would help with, without just giving them an outright damage buff which I disagree with.

I understand the nature of the class but I agree they could use a small defensive buff perhaps (besides hex) when in berserk state only since they go from having the highest hp in normal situations to having half of their hp while bossing, and not everyone has 30k, so half hp can much lower than 14k

 

Royals is a low skill high reward server.

 

I found a screenshot with damage and hp u guys looking for!Hype! 10billion is the damage cap btw~please buff drks to become like this archer!!

 

as main drk for almost 2 years here(and this is my my only main, and probably will be my only main 4 eva) i have changed my mind about my job many times. i wont quote every comment here bcs theres a lot of them wich i share and theres a lot of them wich a dont , so ill just say the next:
In every single game theres a high risk/high reward role :

wich for royals is corsair and dark knights.(theres another roles wich can be taked as "complicated but gratefull" or "complex but extremely rewrding" wich are shadowers/paladins here, i meantion them bcs theres ppl that think shads and pally are as hard to play as drks/sairs, and theyre not, just more complex...not actually riskier)

Corsairs fullfil that description bcs theyre hard to play, they have their risk and limits, but on rewrd they have the higher dps in game.thats why theyre not tier1 like many ppl say LOL, and i pretty much never saw anyone complaining about they high dmg(meanwhile everyone is always complaining about nlstory)...but 4 drks......

Lets be honest theres no rewrd about playing a drk, objectively speaking drk is just a nerfed hero with a nice buff.
I LOVE BEING A DRK, but its just i like to be tense and HAVE to pay atention during runs, otherwise i owuld quit long time ago(thas why i probably never make an NL) when a friend ask me to recomend a job i pretty much always say: "choose anything beside mms and drks"

and lets stop the sith mindset pls:



These staments are completely wrong, im sorry:

1.-Multitarget compensates for everything, having a lot less single target dmg doesnt matter, buffing them would be making them super op.
2.-The entire game is builded around single target dmg, multitarget its almost useless.

true: multitarget is quite usefull at main bosses till now: cwpq/zak/ht(thats why b4 implement pb something cwpq look a like should be added) but isnt as big deal as many ppl think....in a 6 man pt at zak/ht having 1 multitarget char barely makes it better than having just 6 nls,IT IS better...but the difference is waaay to little...u can buff the multitarget jobs...but i think it will be enough just make a little changes:

1.-take 10- 15% of zak body hp and add that to arms...problem solved
2.-HT....why on earth im not hitting head a and b at the same time...i mean my crusher is literally pssing by his horn.....its not like i hit it the 100% of the time...bcs the fking head a moves a lot.

2nd wrong stament:

1.-HB is an amazing skill, really needed, and thats what compensate the high risk of zerking.
2.- HB is useless, since everyone is fully washed to 30k hp, and thanks to boss dispels, hb isnt realible.

Again, both false, HB is a quite nice skill wich makes drk..cheaper than most jobs and sometimes it helps pt(and it will become even more helpfull if PB comes out).

To summerize:

After the shadower range buff i actually think all warriors are in a kind of a awkward position,but this is how warriors should be(for design)
1.-Paladin.-No1 warrior in terms of single target dmg(they should do over 15%more dmg than drks)but just on elemntal weakness situation
2.-Drk.-should be 15-20% stronger than hero in terms of dmg(difference will be less on practice, bcs we lose a decent amount of time getting into zerk range)
3.-Hero....well i always saw hero like a vanilla Job.. strong and easy to play....Right now heros are stronger self buffed, stronger with just se, and slighty weaker when se+si...and that depends on how good u are to get into zerk range,bcs many times a hero will be stronger even on se+si....withouth speaking of claymore heros....
ALL warriors can use an small buff, but being specific on drks i just thinks thse are the changes they need:

1.-Just let all the drk buff stack...iron will +Hex+DEF pots will be enough to help be a tini tiny bit more tankier.
something that ppl forgets about hex is that isnt a permanent buff....its a random one, so i wont have that att buff all the time.
also blood...again, it may seem like too much but believe me ITS NOT,,it implies a risk aswell...so it totally fits with drk gameplay or:

2.-CHANGE ZERK to tier system..something like:

"for every 10% less life u have u will have a 20% dmg boost"
so at:
90%-120%
80%-140
70-160.....

That way u could be not completely useless at things like pb(if it comes out) and auf haven and still be under heros there....bcs u will stay at 18k or 21k hp..having just 80% or 60% buff

and ppl like me or @sparky95 can stay at 40 or 30% hp to deal as much dmg as we can (dying a lot ofc)......
Disclaimer: my 2 skill changes sugestions are 1 OR another, 20% more dmg on zerk+hex att buff+ dragon blood all at once IT IS too much...not even seapking of hitting 2 heads at once(wich like i said, if this is implemneted no buff is needed)

MAKE DRKS GREAT AGAIN!

 

This thread is about making Drk more relevant, especially in end game bosses.

This 5% achilles buff or a minor defensive buff, is this just a minor QOL improvement, or will it create a significant difference that will allow Drks to tackle bosses they couldn't before the change? For the 2 bosses that cannot be zerked (both 40% and 50%), this 5% extra dmg reduction doesn't change anything. For the bosses that are already zerk-able, it's just a matter of getting better with your fingers. Lowering the difficulty of those bosses isn't part of this thread's intention. This defense buff will only enhance the lives of lazy people who play Drk without providing a solution to any of the proposed obstacles at the end game bossing scene.

Acquiring 30k HP with HB as a Drk around the end game scene is the easiest task since you only need to maintain a total of 30 int at lvl 30 ~135. Even if you failed to do that, there's a secondary method to gain additional HP by manipulating the 1st job passive hp increase skill, although it'll cost a lot.

 

SUGGESTION TO MAKE ALL CLASSES MORE USEFULL:
Only allowed to enter bossing room when u have 1 job of ea classes, the boss will automatically nerf to Half Damage and Half HP.
Example: Paladin(Warrior) , Shadower(Thief) , Bishop(Mage) , Marksman(Archer) , Buccaneer(Pirate). Beginner(NoThanks)
Story End no need to thank me

 

why u do these kind of ridiculous coments?...how does it help?if u find some thread dumb..u just skip it..if its not(like this one, its a fact that drks are not the best at many end game bosses, and directly irrelevant at auf haven and a possible pb) suggest actual ideas if u have...if dont...well...thhis kind of comments just makes u a troll u know?

 

Ok but what does relevant mean? Like others have said, not being able to do two of the many bosses isn't enough for GM's to care, which you can still boss just not 100% zerk. You seem to only want to raise attack and attack speed.
If having extra defense in zerk is lazy, what exactly is the problem then? The irrelevance only seems to come from the fact that you can't zerk 100% of the time and are sidelined because a lot of other bossing classes wash to 30k, what do you need to be more relevant exactly? Arch mages can't go to these bosses, drks will get invited to any boss fight.

I've seen the GM's comment on lots of these issues and they'll just tell you you don't have to boss, you don't have to zerk constantly, and you don't have to wash. Also, my suggestion doesn't have to be some inflexible point, maybe they could get more than 5% in zerk. If the big problem is not surviving in zerk in two bosses, they probably won't consider it, but from my point of view the thing that made sense in this situation besides just slapping more attack on is giving a zerk only buff to achilles

 

Maybe I didn't state it clear enough but I've stated the need to nerf zerk down to 40% to create a greater risk if there is to be a damage buff.

This is the issue I'm addressing to make Drks more "relevant" because they are considered a crippled hero with an HB buff, nothing unique to stand out as high risk high reward class. There is only a risk but that risk isn't even a proper one because none of the zerk-able bosses require 50% threshold and those that cannot be zerked makes no difference with even the 10% reduction. We need a higher risk and higher reward to be relevant in end game bosses.

 

Ok actual ideas is everything is good rite now,this is Nostalgia low rate server v62 i believe.
Do u know choosing class in game is just like reading terms and conditions, u must accept the pros and cons, but not complain about other class and compare diffrent classes,u cant compare at all becuz they totaly difrent thing.
I still prefer nostalgia, if i wan so much buff for my class ,i rather play an unlimited reborn system server that can learn every passsive+active skills.
Cheers hardworking makes u stronger, but rng still the most important thing in bossing and scrolling, GOod LUCK!
The nerf and buff skill in update65 is not about class unbalance, is about economy and mesos sink...

 

I feel like DrKs are in a pretty awkward situation in this server. Imo they're a class that was designed to not only to be reliant on party members, but also one a party relies on.

With the kind of gameplay DrKs command, it's clear to see it's a high risk, high reward design. In order to reap maximum reward in damage output (and outshine heroes), they're reliant on having both SE and SI party buffs on top of the risk of zerking. In return, they provide an invaluable buff in hyper body, thus forming this I need you, you need me relationship. Just like how NLs are designed to be entirely dependant on SE, the original game devs envisioned boss parties to be entirely dependant on HB. While I can appreciate the idea behind the conception of this class, it is an old fashioned design in this day and age.

With the availability of HP washing, it's natural for players to gravitate towards not wanting a crippling dependence on a buff for runs to take place, even if it means spending billions of mesos and hundreds upon hundreds of hours of grind and sweat.

The hierarchy of a boss run looks like this:
Attack = Essential buff > Utility

Pre balancing patch, buccs and paladins fall in the pure utility category, making them highly unfavourable and unrewarding to play. Post buff, having a bucc together in a party with classes that benefit from their SI buff makes up for an NL/sair slot, resulting in their popularity. Pallies now have superior 1v1 dmg among warriors and can tag along parties.

DrKs were desgined as a class to be an essential buff. The way the game is played now is far from what the original design intended, and it's not hard to see why. MMORPGs need a large playerbase to be successful. Right now, SE and HS which are considered essential buffs are highly sought after even with the prevalence of mules. No one (with NLs in the party) would start a run without them. Players have evolved and worked around (at a mighty cost) not needing HB as an essential buff, so DrKs in this server have fallen into a place where they now have to contest with other damage classes to find their spot in a party. Yet, nothing have changed in their class/kit, which is why I feel this is an important discussion for Royals to decide how to invigorate this class.

There have been many great suggestions brought up by players not only in this thread, but over the years here for DrKs, and I hope that Royals can understand the importance and need to consider them.

i dont play drk but thx 4 listening 2 my ted talk

 

Relevant , at least here, means that u can do your part of the job(dmg) as good as any other character in game, and it isnt about not being able to zerk at just "2 bosses" its the fact that those are main bosses, wich should be able to do for every single char, devs have quite a challenge, making bosses, hard to do, but a the same time doable for everyone...especially drks, for wich main bosses cant do over 15k dmg, otherwise they would be useless there(even less than 15k dmg can make drk useless..bcs auf haven does less tahn 15k to drks, but the speed movement and the fact that cant be rushed, makes auf have pretty much undoable for us)
Now the exact problem is, ppl like sparky dont want that zerk mechanic to be any easier, its meant to be hard, but its not only not rewarding(bcs u have a handicap to do similar dmg as a hero), it makes drks either an hb mule or a dead weight bcs ure doing half the normal dmg, not of drks, half that normal dmg of any job....why take a drk then? arch mages can use a buff aswell...not on dmg, some support skills could be nice, but, theyre alrdy the kings of money making, sooo,they have that, what drks have if they cant join main end game bosses?

another solution can be give an special potion or buff only to drks at...and want to this point to be really clear ..AT MAIN BOSSES( no one should complain about things like anego, wich is hard asf to zerk, or bga wich is almost impossible to, bcs those are not main bosses) like auf haven or an eventually PB something like :"with this potion u will take 30-50% less dmg when ure under 50% of your hp, it will only work at "x" location" that would make for example pb hard for everyone, but still doable(it moves hella fast and does over 25k dmg, it will reduce touch dmg to 12.5k and still be hell of a challenge for us) same for auf haven anything with over 10k dmg that moves and cant be rushed, its going to be hard asf(remeber that we cant just heal us up...we have to calculate our heals aswell to stay into zerk range) thats why those bosses cant be compared to bf or anego which can be rushed or toad wich yes deals over 13k dmg but is an static boss...rn auf deals over 13.5k dmg to warriors but also moves and cant be rushed,thats what makes drks useless there.
something that i dont share with @sparky95 is thats hes proposing some sort of buff adding another handicap "make hex buff stack, but reduce the zerk range to 40% again" theres no need to add another handicap for such an small buff, drks are alrdy behind heros no matter what , ive tried myself against a hero with similar gears as me at cwpq, zak and ht, and the results are that even with se+si heros are stronger jsut bcs they hit and get heal by their pets withouth caring of anything..menawhile i have to :care to not overheal at those bosses, and if i do stay stunned for a few secs using roar,use crash at cwpq to not have the risk of dying, etc

 

Ok, this a point where maybe we cant be on the same page. but nostalgic doesnt mean the exact same, its just a feeling,buccs and pallys used to be bad,we didnt care then, if u can bring bakc those unware days, we wont be having this discussion, now we have the info, the dmg formulas,everything, and we cant change the mindset of comunity,maplstory its a lovely game, but lets face it, it haved design problems, big problems, and we have the oportunity to fix this now, if we want this last as much as it can, a server wich is the exact same as old school ms, wouldt last much(many servers tried) bcs were not the same ppl, and theres big difference between royals and gms(or kms/jms wahtever u played) buccs and pally got a better spot here...does it really hurt the nostalgia?, and if it did...why?why ppl would want for some classes to be bad or purely mules.....thats how original ms was but...im absolutely shure thats not how they meant to...they just messed up...starting with..well remeber that 4th jobs are something actually planned way later, ant thats where they scrwed things up. everything isnt "just good" rn otherwise there will not be that "nlstory" issue, i agree things arent taht bad like some ppl say, ive heard things like "drks are just sooo bad" wich is entirely a lie, but the truth is the game is still unbalanced.
We should acept our jobs with their pros and cons ofc, but were not blind, if cons are just way to high compared to pros, theres just something wrong there, and we can suggest how to fix