Forum The deletion of comments & The Ban Hammers

I wanted to constructively as possible give some feedback on the recent bans of @Dezperadow & @Gifflar

Cards on the table, i was in Dezperadows guild so have known him for a while. ( i am aware of the reason(s) for his ban)
I have seen the comment he made in his ban appeal which was deleted (wrongly IMO) and would like some further clarification on what part of his response was "intends to promote/glorify rule-breaking"

He gave feedback as i am now.


I think this should be seen by the community and offers some constructive feedback to the GMS/Admins and again i think brings into question the rules in the game.
Yes, some rules are correct and should never be changed (RWT, hack, botters) but i do agree that ban evaders starting from scratch years after their initial ban should be given a second chance.

Your instant deletion of his comment and then further straight shout box ban for @Gifflar because he agreed?????

He didnt break any rule, he just got yeeted for saying "He does have a good point about the existing rules".

Why should it matter where he makes the comment? If i say that here in the feedback, will i be banned? How does that lead to anyone wanting to give actual feedback without fear of just being banned?
That is FUCKING CRAZY.
Yes, 99% of the work you guys do is great, but fuck me dude Insta ban for agreeing with someone????

The game you have made/stolen and modified is great, not only for the modifications you guys have made but because of the people in it.
Throwing everyone away and not having a willing and open discussion with that same community that supports you about perhaps some possible changes, just kinda sucks.

You guys have all the power (and at some times is abused) yet it seems you are unwilling to think that maybe, just this once, you might actually need to perhaps think about a change.

As has been highlighted by @dez "Not many "new" people are discovering maplestory these days" maybe its time we need to make a change and amend some of our rules to allow some mid thirties degens to come back after making some stupid errors in there late teens.

Spoiler

dont @me for my shit typing/punctuations

 

^
this was pretty shocking to see and way too severe

worth noting that these comment deletions and shout box bans are not the actions of the entire staff team, but of the forum moderator

i have seen way more heinous things posted in ban appeals and no deletion of their posts, and i entirely disagree with the removal of dez’s comments and criticism. it’s unfair censorship and i don’t think dez’s comments were unfair or toxic or rude

disclaimer I don’t know anyone here personally

 

@dezperadow message although IMO gives constructive feedback, the lines of “need us criminals to keep this server alive” is justifying for rule breakers that is against existing rules. If he had this mindset, the year and a half he ban evaded based on his forum creation, he would have sounded out, but he didn’t.

This was more of an attempt of frustration that he is caught, to leave off a provoking message to the community, trying to justify ban evaders like himself are much needed in the server.

Not to say blatantly calling legit players “Acoustic” which we know is a slang for saying “autistic” in Gen-Z slang. What is he trying to provoke here and why even say such ableist statement to the common players that are diligently playing within the rules?

On the other hand, the forum moderator’s attempt to silence his message is understandable, for the need to enforce rules and maintain a positive environment, however silencing feedback of this nature might inadvertently discourage constructive criticism and push members of the community away, which is exactly how this thread was created.

Also for @Joshy , yes I agree to an extend that ban evader started years after should be given a second chance, but looking at appeals, many of the evaders came back and attempts to break rules again.

The final reply of similar discussions: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/should-banned-players-be-given-a-second-chance.203910/page-7

Quoting @Becca that given our limited staff resources, it’s really difficult to monitor the amount of “returning banned player” if they were to be given a second chance.

Take a look at our appeal section, there are over 10k ban appeals, many I believe to be evaders caught again. Where do they go? They either change server to enjoy the “better treatment”, or once again gets banned by their playstyle and attempts to come back to the GTop constant top ranker.

Not to say, if banned players are given another chance, will they feel comfortable to have their activities checked on a timely basis given if there are enough staff to share the workload of monitoring them?

Surely new problems rises.

I put my 2 cent here, do share with me your opinions as I’m curious to how other community members think about this situation.

 

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/5meo-banned-seeking-reason-ban-appeal.239695/

This was a few months ago but i think it counts under "heinous things". This person made IRL threats that hes gonna pay staff a "visit" in regards to him being banned.

 

Hey,

Quick on the Dezperadow appeal. As a hexa Ulu mage farmer, I'm not even offended at all, couldn't care less about being called stuff. I doubt many of the mage farmers who he was talking about cares at all about that. Anyways... To the discussion...

As @bibz mentioned, in my case, it turned out to be the work of a forum moderator. I believe we’re all allowed to make mistakes, and hey, I got unbanned by @Dave Deviluke because he misunderstood what I was referring to. These things happen, and honestly, I don’t care much about it. However, this raises another discussion:

Many of you know I’ve been around for quite some time (on and off), and I’m probably one of the oldest players still active. Throughout my time on Royals, I’ve noticed when joking or discussing certain permanent bans, like RWT, in public spaces like the shoutbox or in-game chats. I’ve often been told, “Don’t joke about that—people get banned for that.” This level of censorship feels excessive, almost comparable to authoritarian states like Russia, where even discussing sensitive topics is strictly forbidden. (Not to digress too much, but you get the point.)

On Permanent Bans
Some of you might have noticed that I’ve been advocating for changes to the current permanent ban rules. Why? Because, under these rules, if you dig hard enough into anyone’s history, you’re bound to find something questionable. Over the years, I’ve seen players get banned for offenses committed a year or even years prior—even when they’ve been clean since being made aware of the rules. Similarly, I’ve seen ban appeals dismissed with responses like, “This is irrelevant because you were also vote-abusing.” While I don’t have specific evidence to present (I’m not about to comb through years of appeals), I know from experience and observation that these cases exist.

As someone who’s been part of this community for a while, I’ve seen friends permanently banned, and I’d like the ones still around to stay for a while longer.

When I raise this in the shoutbox with @Tim or other staff members, I was encouraged to create a feedback thread. However, I haven’t done so because several already exist:

• https://royals.ms/forum/threads/should-banned-players-be-given-a-second-chance.203910/
• https://royals.ms/forum/threads/long-term-ban-instead-of-permanent-ban.193316/

These threads often derail, and I haven’t had the time or energy to contribute further. The main issue is that the suggestions come from the player base rather than the staff. The staff have access to all the relevant data and understand their own time and workload constraints better than anyone. This makes their input or suggestions critical for any meaningful change. I’d like to believe these topics have been discussed among the staff, but the lack of transparency makes it hard to tell.

On Second Chances
I believe in giving people second chances. For instance, if someone was permanently banned and later caught evading their ban, why not evaluate their behavior since their return? If they’ve been clean, let them stay, and simply inform them that staff are aware of their presence. Most likely, they wouldn’t risk doing anything to get banned again.

On RWT
No, second chances shouldn't be given on RWT and this should indeed be considered a permanent ban. Not going to say more about that.

On Account Sharing
Why not remove the rule altogether? Yes, concerns about account ownership and shared responsibility exist. But if someone in a household cheats, ban them all for cheating—not account sharing. If someone engages in RWT, ban them for that specific offense. As for people sharing accounts, what’s the real harm? They might grind 24/7, but we already have caps for bosses. If the concern is about a group farming 24/7 on a mage accounts, the rule could address that directly. This seems like a straightforward issue to manage. Are we worried they’ll surpass the achievements of top players like Xves, Jae, or Meng? I’d love to hear thoughts on this.

On Vote Abusing
Yes, removing vote abuse as a permanent offense would require broader changes. But other private servers allow multiple votes daily—why shouldn’t we? If we go this route, we’d need to revamp parts of the economy. For example:

• Limit voting rewards to 3k NX per vote.
• Add incentives like bonus RP for voting consistently over 30 days.
• Remove gachapon tickets and APRs from the NX shop and replace them with a new system.

I don’t have a perfect solution, but I’m confident that, as a community, we could come up with something effective.

Oh yeah, the usual reply usually goes with "when you signed up you agreed to the rules". Well, who the hell actually read the ToS when buying for example an iPhone or using Facebook. Same goes for Royals.

 

I think that the perfect balance between deleting the comment, and keeping the comment, is to delete SOME parts of the comment that seemed questionable - like the part where dez called these mage farmers acoustic (which is a Gen-Z slang for autistic) or some words that could be misunderstood..

Deleting the whole comment? tbh, he gave decent feedback, I don't think it was a good call.

Disclaimer - he is a former guildie of mine. that's pretty much it.

 

Im asking for a friend (dez)

Can you just omit the part about the acoustics and leave the rest of the post up?
Theres a greater message in that post that's being withheld from the public

 

The thing is - you can't get a perfect result.
You can't ignore the comment cause then you let a player talk about some questionable things.
You can't delete the comment because it'll look like you're silencing him (which some people kinda view it right now tbh)..
You can't edit the comment due to previous feedback..

It's a tough situation, but I think that you shouldn't do your job only based on previous feedback, especially when the said feedback is 1 year old..

All of what i'm saying is my opinion alone and I don't include anybody else in this way of thinking, but there are other ways to handle these situations without silencing a user.

There's a difference between editing an ok comment or w/e, and editing a comment that has some questionable statements.

 

Seems like the main frustration regarding "censorship" here is that you cant even make the argument that the rules are even slightly problematic without getting banned.

**DISCLAIMER: NOT PROMOTING BAN EVASION**
Theres a difference between:
"I think there are some ban evaders (criminals) who come back after many years, are clean and promote growth"
v.s.
"Go ban evade via x method, its safe and as long as you dont cheat again its fine"

One suggests a change to a rule and the other encourages one to break the rules. Banning people for discussing or making the argument against the overall utility of a rule is kind of arrogant dont you think? Youre assuming you are 100% correct and any arguments otherwise are erroneous

Note that im not arguing the viability of allowing banned users to return, just the arguments made to justify the moderation

 

From your post:
"You need us 'criminals' to keep this server alive."
This suggests that we need to welcome back ban evaders (or banned players) just to keep the game active, which is misleading.

"Many ban evaders do truly change and play legitimately and can have positive impacts to the community."
This statement attempts to justify ban evasion.
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Yes i can pick and choose a few reasons and challenge them? If your decision is he used "acoustic" in a derogatory mannerv therefore it doesnt matter still banned, thats fine. You literally say it right here, the second statement is "justifying ban evasion" when the point being made is maybe there should be an amendment to the rules, its cause for a ban. If you truly had an open mind you wouldnt see this as a problematic statement because its an attempt to argue the other side, but no, in your head, all statements supporting lightening up on ban evasion = ban

If you cite lets say 5 reasons why someone should be banned and 2 of them make no sense, i should 100% be able to point out why those 2 dont make sense, im not arguing for his unban here, just that part of your justification is wrong and should not be precedent for anything

 

I have friends who don't like you over your moderation but I personally think you've done a best job in terms of moderating a forum

 

"I just think you take it too far when you witch hunt ban evaders from years ago who are otherwise playing legitly."
This discredits the GMs' efforts in catching ban evaders.

So challenging GMs decisions for bans also gives you points towards getting a ban? This is the lightest, non personal attack criticism ever LMFAO

Another point towards you assuming your opinion is right, because this again, is perfectly cordial way of arguing for a change and if you cared about an open discussion or feedback it wouldnt bother you