i'm quite curious on this part. since when DrK's don't need to manual pot? 0.0 I'm doing 2x VL weekly with my DrK and there is not a singular run where i don't have to manual pot. Maybe you meant there is no longer a limitation on auto hp from pet?
First of all, correct me if I’m wrong on anything when citing classes - I haven’t personally played every class in VL I’m mainly basing this off my experience as a host of 12-man / 10-man VL runs. The tier list definitely shifts depending on group size and how experienced people are For this list, I’m assuming players are strong and know how to play. Example: I’d put MM in Tier A or even S if I knew I was dealing with newer players in an 18-man, just because of how much they help cover mistakes. Or I'd put DrK lower in an 18-Man VL because of skill issue S-Tier Shads, Buccs, Bishops Pretty obvious tbh. Not going to add more than what’s already been said - these three are just the backbone A-Tier (Empty) Not trolling - I just think S-tier is that far ahead. Any combo of Shads/Buccs/2xBS will always outperform other comps. You can always clear with these chars B-Tier Marksman (MM) This might surprise a lot of people, but I think MM is actually goated in VL - especially in 10-mans if you need an SE for NLs. I don’t think the DPS difference between Hurricane (BM) and Strafe (MM) is the dealbreaker - that part’s negligible. The real difference maker is Piercing Arrow. I used to think it was just some flashy AoE, but after swapping BM → MM for a couple weeks, I immediately saw the runs get a little more scuffed. Even one or two mobs slipping through can make things messy, and Piercing Arrow deletes that problem. I ABSOLUTELY love having a Marksman in my VLs as a host. They make the run so much less stressful. If I were to host 18-man VLs again with newer players, I’d make sure to find an MM - they help a ton. Blind - OP in 10s, 12s, 18+. You save so many res/TLs thanks to this. Plus, no lost DPS since if bird/laser misses you, 1) you don’t die, and 2) you’re not stunned for 5 years. Piercing Arrow - the difference-maker, especially for mob clear. In 10-mans this skill matters. I’ve lost count of how many times @anglerfish1 1 has said “I whited all the golems xd” or @bibz flexing “I whited the mobs!!” at LHC. Corsair Ngl, I’ve heard Sairs are good, but I don’t really run with them. I’ll just take @Donn1e 's word for it. I have a feeling that Sair might be good for PB tho it ever comes out XD (Also R> strong Sair for Bougie VL so I can see it firsthand ) C-Tier DrK, Hero, Pally With full gear, I think these three sit on the same tier. They bring the same thing to a VL run: mediocre mob clear + mediocre single-target DPS. Ranking order for me: DrK → Hero → Pally DrK - #1 in this group. Defense Crash can hit 20+ mobs (correct me if I’m wrong xD) versus Hero’s 6-target crash. Plus, DrKs generally scale better with SE Hero - #2 here. Might be biased since I run with the #1 Hero on the server (shoutout @tomwzhere ), but overall Hero is kinda dog LOL. Same package as DrK but just weaker in VL Pally - #3. They’re fine, mob clear + mediocre single target. Only real advantage is hitting 6 mobs at once, compared to DrKs/Heroes hitting 3 Extra note: DrKs/Heroes lose out because when mobs stack on VL, some of their damage gets split to VL itself instead of the mobs. When mobs need to be prioritized, you’re basically losing ~33% DPS. I’ve found their mob clear isn’t as good in practice, especially when they’re left outside during jail phases D-Tier Bowmaster - Mediocre DPS both on mobs and boss. Mobility is trash. Hamstring is nice, SE is obviously required, but in VL (where mob clear is king) BM feels really underwhelming Night Lord - Amazing single-target DPS if you’ve got cracked NLs (11k+ range). Especially if you’re running with one of the strongest NLs on the server (yeh @Solsticio ). Avenger mob clear is actually underrated too at this range. But you still need SE, and compared to other options, their mob clear just isn’t the best. F-Tier Yeah… don’t think I’d bring these unless it’s a meme run BONUS: 6-MAN VL TIER LIST Had a lot of theorycrafting with this one, but I think the results may surprise people S-Tier Shadower - Honestly, this is the only class you need for 6-man VL. Mob control is the biggest issue, and Shads solve it with meso explosion strats. You can either use it situationally for sticky mob phases, or just run the whole fight like that (Assassinate while dropping mesos, then meso explode when mobs appear — ideally double mobs). Without this strat, I don’t think 6-man VL is possible. On top of that, in a 6-man where you can’t afford deaths due to no res, Shads have the highest survivability, which makes them even more essential. B-Tier Bucc - TL + mob control. TL gives more Smoke uptime so Shads can safely Assassinate + drop mesos. For mobbing, Dragon Strike + Snatch is insane, one of the best 6-target AoEs in the game. A good Bucc pumps damage on both boss and mobs C-Tier DrK / Hero - This might shock people, but both were real contenders for our 6-man clear. Defense Down is HUGE — that 20% damage reduction can literally make or break a run, and it did for us in early attempts. Don’t sleep on their mobbing either (3-target). Also, at the top end, funded DrKs/Heroes with Auf helms and gear can put up numbers. In some calcs I did, DrK could actually outdamage Bucc in solo boss DPS depending on gear comps. Everything Else I honestly don’t think it’s possible to clear 6-man VL with any other class combo
Looks like 15 vs 6. Still, VL + 3 gargoyles + 10 golems is only 14 so it covers them all anyways. I think at this point (for non stunt runs), the real S tier class is belt looter.
I've been away since 2023 and just came back. And never saw till now the actual g0d @Donn1e giving me props for skill or maybe I would have never quit (well, that or if Finland to Canada time zones weren't so shit for weekly VLs :S ) I'll say I'm not surprised so many people have a hard time ranking Sair as the class varies so much in DPS based on skill - fail Sair is super fail, skill Sair is best single target DPS in game. Sair is also decent at mobbing; definitely not same tier as Bucc/Shad/Drk but next tier down. I agree with Donn1e though, if smoke available and mobs are under control I would prefer to focus VL than help with mobs, more efficient DPS
Well, after one and a half years of experience (12-15-18 man runs) I think this is a pretty accurate tier-list. Surely there are plenty who are way more experienced than me, but based on the runs i've had, i'll stand by this one. S Tier: Shads, Buccs, Bishops - no need to provide extra info, they are mandatory. A Tier: DrK - a good DrK that can consistently zerk and with minimum deaths / have the IGN "Relmy" (my forever DrKing), can help a lot with mob control, damage overall, and HB is always nice to have even if you have reached the HP goal, or you're just barely within it. While their single-target damage doesn't shine the brightest when shads & buccs are in the run, they deal pretty good damage and with their optimal setup (SE SI) they can create some nasty lines. DrK's are good for gargs as they can provide crash + focus at least 2 mobs out of the 3 (as they will forced to focus VL as a target due to attacking it beforehand) which is very good. They fall short to buccs and shads in terms of clearing golems due to the high number of summons, but they're always good to have - crash can help clear gargs faster (and i've seen drk/hero-less parties and it took longer than usual to clear gargs / double summons). Not the best melee attacker, but the best out of the warriors, that's for sure. shoutout to our singular iframe - rush - you saved us from many lightning strikes and bleedings. god bless. MM - honestly? i memed this class before, but i was wrong. Mobbing is quite good, and based on what i've seen, shines brighter than BM's Hamstring+Arrow Bomb clear, also, they provide great support with SE + Blind. Blind is insanely good in VL and i've seen over 30-40 misses in a run that prevented many deaths (shotout to the #1 mm anglerfish). Since buccs are always participating in VL, they will always have SI so they can deal good damage. B Tier: BM - Decent clearing, but falls just slightly behind MM in mobbing. Besides SE, they don’t provide much utility to the party and are often outshined in terms of damage by other classes. Even though archers are supportive and not meant to be top DPS, I still think BMs are less valuable than MMs and generally less useful compared to other classes in VL. C Tier: Corsair – To be honest, a good Corsair with an optimal setup (SE + SI) who can actually control their ship is very useful. After seeing Tim destroy Mage boss in 8 minutes during CWK runs, I definitely respect what a strong Corsair can do. However, this class is extremely skill-dependent - and there just aren’t many truly high-level Corsairs. If there is one in the party, it’s great - but since they don’t provide meaningful utility and are only worth bringing when they’re really strong and the party already has Buccs and an archer… Yeah. C Tier fits. Paladin - Okay single-target damage and decent non-consistent AoE, but offers no meaningful buffs or utility - other than being (quoted by Donn9e) a “golem janitor.” Good mobbing with Rush and can reach damage cap easily with Blast… but that’s pretty much it. Nothing particularly special beyond that. NL - The #2 single-target DPS class in the game, but outside of that… not great in VL. Sure, they're strong vs the main body when there are no mobs, but since mobs spawn constantly (every 1–2 minutes), their damage drops heavily. Avenger isn’t awful, but BStep, Crusher, DS + Snatch are simply much better options. NLs require SE to even participate and feel worthwhile - and the current meta is shifting toward Shads, Buccs, two Bishops, and maybe one warrior for mobbing. Based on the weekly runs I do (usually 5–6 Shads, 2 Bishops, 3–4 Buccs), NLs aren’t necessary at all. F Tier: I/L Mage - bruh F/P Mage - bruh Hero - I will never love you, horrible alibaba express version of drk. Never thought I’d share my serious take here, but after enough runs (as DrK/Bucc/Bishop), I feel like I finally have a valid opinion.
I think in terms of an overall tier list, mine would be pretty much identical to @andywtf 's list above. I might just be tempted to maybe move pally up above hero/drk (I'll explain why in a bit). I think it would also be interesting to break it down further. Here's my tier lists for mob clear by class, split up by gargs vs golems/double summons, because they look very different. Gargs (3-4 targets): Golems/Doubles (6+ targets): (Note: If you allow pay2win, shads jump up to S tier if meso-bombing golems ) I'm guessing the gargs list won't be too surprising to most ppl but maybe the golems one will be. I'm guessing immediate reactions might be: Drk/Hero at the bottom??? NL isn't the worst??? Shad is only B tier??? The important thing to keep in mind is the number of targets each class is hitting. A class like Hero/Drk is amazing on 3 targets, but when hitting 6+ targets, their damage falls off compared to other classes that can hit the max 6. This is especially bad in VL where they have a high tendency to lock on to VL's body and hit only 2 of the golems that they reallyyy need to prioritize. Kinda true for Shads (4 targets) to a lesser extent too, that's why they're only average on golems. Whites are also deceptive for these classes. You might see whites on a couple golems as a Drk/Hero, but it doesn't mean you're doing the most dmg overall, it could just mean you've concentrated more dmg onto those particular mobs, versus most other classes spreading their dmg out across twice as many mobs, which could actually add up to a lot more in total. That said, Hero/Drk are still amazing at gargs and probably the best choice for filling in when your run is low on shads. But if your run already has full smoke party and so half your attackers are shads (which is most runs these days), I think it's actually more beneficial to throw in some classes with strong golem clear instead to balance that out (which is why I agree with tier lists like Andy's which favour sair/mm, since they have strong golem clear without sacrificing gargs too much - but I'd maybe go further and say pally is a pretty decent choice too). Of course, that could also just mean you fill the rest with buccs instead, or get the shads to meso-bomb. Boooo Sidenote: On the other hand, BM is just pretty bad at both types of mobs and it's really unfair. They're using a second job skill (!), have a really high tendency to pull aggro on all the mobs, and can't push anything or reposition well. Please buff BM Hopefully that's not too controversial. Wanted to prompt some discussion and especially challenge the widely held view that ranged are trash mobbers and melee are OP, because I think it's more complicated than that!
