Would HP washing ever be removed?

ooooorrrrr, just hear me out, oooorrrrr, they could fix HP washing and you could just play one character throughout the whole game the way it was intended to be played

 

Washing was never broken. It's not a bug, it's not a glitch. What's broken is the servers perception on the necessity of washing.

There are groups out there that you might be interested in. Ironman washes minimally (what little they can from no trading/buying of gear, etc). I've started a non-washing group/guild. Heck, you might be surprised to hear some of the staff is so casual that their washing is on par with what some of the Ironman do. There are plenty of people out there who don't wash.

You can play the game without washing, and you can boss without washing. You want to experience the game the way you think it's supposed to be and that is subjective just like what people think is nostalgic about old maple (but that doesn't mean the game should be changed because it doesn't line up with what you want). You are responsible for what you get out of this game. If you don't like washing, then don't, no one is forcing you to wash.

One must imagine Sisyphus happy.

 

You "can" boss without good equips.. doesn't mean i wanna play a character that i know will never reach high damage.

 

Blood wash an HB mule and your all set. You won't have to worry about finding HB ever, and you dont have to wash. Not to mention if you do wash minimally, you gain +60% more from each ap reset you use. People make SE/SI/HS mules all the time and bring them on boss runs, just bring your HB mule. If you add all AP to HP after level 30 you can easily have 20k HP on your HB mule unbuffed at level 100. This allows you to do 2nd job advance just fine + you dont have to do 3rd job advance. The mule will also never leech your boss exp, and can survive all bosses even if its dispelled.

 

My thoughts on several of the concerns mentioned in this thread:


1. Certain classes will not be able to HT unless washed.

It has been mentioned many times that all classes can HT with minimal or no washing. You just need HB in your party.

I do agree that while HTing with no washing is theoretically possible, it is too hard to achieve in reality. Therefore, I am not against adding a little bit of HP (maybe 500) to the Master Adventurer medal, so it is more realistic for people to survive HT with HB and no washing. But any more than that is too unfair to the people who have already washed.

Even if they don't implement this change, getting 500 - 1000 HP from minimal washing isn't really hard. Probably only requires <1B, or around 20 days of voting. Even if you learned about HP washing at LV100+, you can still do minimal washing with no problem, which would allow you to HT with HB.


2. But it is hard to find HB. Runs with HB are rare.

It seems that people who complain about this fact are not satisfied with being able to HT. They want to be popular in HT. They want to find a party without much effort whenever they want to HT.

To these people, I just want to say that being popular in HT parties requires MUCH more effort than HP washing. For example, many parties ask for 6k+ clean range when they recruit NLs. You probably need 40+B funding to reach 6K clean range, while HP washing to a comfortable level only costs around 10B.

Even if HP gains are modified so all classes can HT without washing & HB (not to mention how unfair this is to the already washed), what will these people do when they realize that now their popularity in HT is limited by their damage, and it would require much more effort to get high damage than HP washing? I guess the next step would be asking for free perfect cravens, 20 ATT cape, 20 ATT shoe, and 20 ATT gloves.

In short, if you just want to experience HT, then you can do it occasionally even with minimal or no washing. However, if you want to HT frequently and be popular in HT parties, then having enough HP won't bring you there anyway. It's is just a tiny part of what's needed.

Being popular in HT parties is a privilege that many people have worked hard towards. If you want it, you should earn it, instead of asking for free stuff.


3. Some people didn't know about HP washing until they are already high-leveled. As a result, they have to restart their characters.

I agree this sucks. This is the only part about HP washing that needs to be changed in my opinion.

People should be able to do HP washing when they are already high-leveled. For example, NPC could sell an untradeable item that increases your maxHP by 16 for 25M mesos (or any other amount that is reasonable). This should be doable at any level.

If this is impossible to implement due to programming constraints, maybe this can be done in the same way as IGN changes:

• People could post in the "Character Issues" section, saying: I have 2.5B mesos in my inventory. Please deduct it and increase my maxHP by 1600.
• To avoid adding too much burden on the GMs, this could be limited to once per month for each person, or a minimum 2.5B-each-time requirement could be placed, so GMs won't be flooded by "deduct 25M for 16 HP" threads.

In this way, people are not punished because they learned about HP washing late.

Edit: I made a feedback thread for the 3rd point. Here is the link: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/make-hp-washing-doable-at-high-levels.113848/

4. HP washing ruins early game.

Again, nobody is forcing you to only have one character. You are free to create a separate character that doesn't wash, only PQ / train / do quests / chat / try out all cloths and hairs / enjoy any other game content that isn't bossing.

I disagree that "play one character throughout that whole game" is the intended way to play Maple. There is no intended way to play Maple. Some people stick with one character, others have 10+ different characters. Many players create new characters just to try out new classes.

Let's be honest that it is YOU who intend to play Maple with only 1 character. You cannot speak for all players in this server.

Creating 2 characters really isn't that difficult. It is a simple solution. Much more preferable than introducing a significant change that is unfair to many veteran players.

 

Honestly, imo, the only REAL problem with HP washing is that if you don't start it early/don't know about it until you level up, it's alredy too late and then you stay with a NL that, maybe can do HT, but in reality no one will take to do HT with just because you didn't know sooner about HP washing and you have to start all over again. Lucky for me, my first (and only currently) character is a (soon to be) bishop that doesn't require HP washing.
I used to play maple a really long time ago when 4th job wasn't even a thing yet and i just remember how low in number and crucial priests were to parties, But it I opened a NL/BM just to realize I wouldn't be able to do late-game bosses because I didn't know about HP washing I would probably just quit the game out of frustration. I am not against HP washing but a change is needed if you ask me.

 

I don't mind if i have to pay huge sums of money for HP washing, just give me the ability on a character i've leveled as the game were meant to be played, not leeched to 135 with full INT.

 

In addition to the comments of @PhotonSphere, I think the most important aspect of getting into HT parties is connection whether you are washed, non washed or minimal washed. This also goes with your attack range.

As for "people should be able to do HP washing when they are already high-leveled. For example, NPC could sell an untradeable item that increases your maxHP by 16 for 25M mesos (or any other amount that is reasonable). This should be doable at any level.

If this is impossible to implement due to programming constraints, maybe this can be done in the same way as IGN changes:

• People could post in the "Character Issues" section, saying: I have 2.5B mesos in my inventory. Please deduct it and increase my maxHP by 1600.
• To avoid adding too much burden on the GMs, this could be limited to once per month for each person, or a minimum 2.5B-each-time requirement could be placed, so GMs won't be flooded by "deduct 25M for 16 HP" threads.

In this way, people are not punished because they learned about HP washing late."

I think this is a good idea but at the same time, everyone can just reach 30k hp and that devalues the need of drks in any parties. In addition, if everyone is able to reach 30k hp, it will feel weird. For example, a range have 30k hp compared to a melee have 30k hp, then what is the difference between range and melee? Plus doesnt this reinforce for people to invite only range into the parties (30k HP NL)

I commented some more on your other thread
https://royals.ms/forum/threads/make-hp-washing-doable-at-high-levels.113848/

 

noob here, what is Hp washing?

 

Here's the gist:

Full guide: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/fully-revised-hp-washing-guide.8286/

 

@infernalalice

Before putting forward that royals is a nostalgic server and whatnot, you need to take into aspect of one thing. People are getting pro in this server.
Seriously, compare a pre bb maple to this server statistics - the average damage dealt per player is way much more significantly higher.
This is because of what people sought to achieve that they cannot do in the real server - getting more powerful by stepping into the direction of being a pro.
But what does being a pro mean?
There are two kinds of gamers, the nonchalant kind, and the kind that wants to excel.
By wanting to excel, it means that you want to be good, and I feel that if you want to be good, you should put in effort to be good in essence.
HP washing is a path where one must put in effort to be good.
You surely cannot deny it's existence, it's a function that existed in maple pre bb, and it is also not compulsory to do - sure, you need to just double client a hb or get a drk friend to boss with you otherwise, but otherwise, it's just a means, an extra step I view that people walk towards in getting pro.

Your main gripe seems to be, from what I can tell by your posts, the retraining of a character when it hits a high level just for the purpose of hp washing. (and or the exhorbitant cost of AP resets)

To be honest though, the moment I see that a player wants to do HP washing, it means that they want to be pro. How can achieving that factor be effortless at all if any?

It's just a decision one make in the end, you can of course deny hp washing and choose not to do it, but this doesn't mean you cannot prevent others from getting gud. There is literally no way at all, that you can tell your classmates in class - to just stop studying because you want to ace the test.

Character not being able to wash? Other people will just only scoff and remake one! (tbf though, once ur funded in this server, you can get to 160 less than a month through getting leeching services)

My point is driven at, this is how society reflects the way it is - The more effort you put into something gets you to be better at something.

tldr, HP washing is not evil, it's just a mechanic players use when they streak to the path to be a pro player. It isn't impossible to be accessed, you just need to put in ludicrous amount of painstaking effort to reach that.

 

People who defend HP washing are complete hypocrites. They argue people against HP washing are just lazy and want the game to be easier. What's f***ing hilarious is, HP Washing does nothing BUT make the game easier.

Everything in this private server makes the game easier. We have Unlimited NX, tradeable NX, increased EXP and drop rates, and the godly system. Many of these features are great and add convenience or remove grindy aspects. However, HP Washing is the exception. HP washing can only appeal to elitists, as it incentivizes players to skip the majority of content in the game in favor of end game. I'm talking about skipping all jobs, maps, quests, and even party quests level 1-120. You can no longer easily find and enjoy this experience with other players, because most either quit or join the HP washing bandwagon themselves. HP Washing completely bones the casual players, and only appeals to elitists. The whole discussion on HP washing is a complete joke, and the people who defend it are pathetic sheep.

Shitting on HP washing is very unpopular here because everyone who agrees with me has left to play games other than the Frankenstein's Monster that is MapleRoyals. Maplestory is a dying, fifteen year old game, and Royals has revived it in a grotesque form, only appealing to people who have no lives and are willing to spend 12 hours a day developing their character just to feel superior to other people on the internet.

HP Washing is a beast that Royals created and what people are arguing here is that it makes the game worse from the original. So please, don't argue over HP washing's difficulty, nostalgia, or people being lazy. It's completely irrelevant. Talk about if you think HP washing makes Royals a better or more fun game to play.

Am I being too mean or harsh towards MapleRoyals players? If so, well, it's because I am one of them.

drops mic

 

I'd like to correct a few parts of your statement here.

The process to conduct hp washing isn't easy at all.

No doubt, once you have washed, the game will be made easier, but and only but, once you have washed. You're hinting as if Hp washing is like a child's play to carry out for a relatively new player.

Next is:

Excuse me? No one purposely do HP washing just to show off their HP to others to feel superior. They do it to survive; they do it in order to be able to tank certain bosses (as an example). You're hinting to me, that people who spend effort on their characters, are people that have no lives? It's just what some people like to do - they work hard and they reap the rewards of their efforts. That's not what the case of this HP washing discussion is about - this thread is to talk about why the mindset of royalers would place hp washing at such a priority.

 

To me, part of the nostalgia that came with old school ms was partying and finding a niche for each class. It was necessary to find a drk to do zakum or ht with. It was necessary to have haste, se, rage, hs, etc.

Hp washing completely negates dks from that niche role. They're still playable but people will prefer hero for warrior dps.

However, there's nothing that can really be done about this. Nx, and meso as a result, is so easily accessible in this server that anybody can HP wash. Its just the nature of it.

Imo hp washing is incredibly unfun and boring. If people want to do it, more power to them. However people who want to experience ms the way it was meant to be played should just find a drk and not worry about washing. I believe there's a guild dedicated to this mentality here https://royals.ms/forum/threads/hpw...unwashed-the-no-hp-washing-experience.113736/

 

HP washing takes time, but time =/= difficulty. Washing makes bossing take zero skill or effort so people can do shit like multi client and AFK watch netflix. Washing also destroys the class balance and damages the majority of aspects that made old school MS so popular and fun like training, party quests, questing, exploring. It's all replaced by min-max bossing, a type of gear treadmill monotony that could only appeal to elitists. Yes, HP washing is not mandatory but since nearly everyone does it, you will fall behind everyone else in the bossing scene, which is the only thing you can do with other people at a high level.

I did more than hint people who like HP washing have no lives, but let me be repeat myself. People who like HP washing have no lives. Yes, people will play any game "competitively" even a game like Maplestory. But, for many, the charm of Maplestory was the social aspect, developing their character with friends, and just generally playing experiencing the game has to offer. The problem with HP washing is that it encourages players TO PLAY COMPETITIVELY. Of course, people can play a game any way they want and all power to them, but the problem is washing has turned the community into some sort of elitist freak show, which kills the experience for any sort of casual players.

 

It will not be removed cause it's "Unfair to low hp classes" since they have a harder time vs end game bosses so they leave the option on the table for them. If I asked for possible accuracy or range washing so my warrior can better fight Showa bosses almost no one would be on my side.

 

I like HP washing and I'm a full time doctoral student. One could argue I don't have a life, but it's not because of maple.

It's really not your place to say who and who doesn't have a life because they like or dislike a certain mechanic of a game.

Edit: But you're right, HP washing encourages people to play competitively, but they don't need to, and I think the casual aspect of the game is kind of lost because the elite players are loud. There's a lot of casual players out there.

 

It's both correct yet wrong at the same time, the server is already filled with the competitive spirit. I guess you didn't see the aspect of the game which is...

then...

 

Does no one mention anything about healthy competition? Cuz I believe healthy competition is what keeps a game running.

Why healthy?
1.Cuz it's not a p2w server. Please dont bring in RWTer against this cuz that's too much of a minority to even consider an argument. The fact that it isn't a p2w server, brings me to my 2nd point.

2. Time and effort is required to be well funded. Nobody reaches 30K hp overnight or HP that survives HT well enough for that matter. Those who are against HP washing are basically cry babies who don't have as much time to invest into the game as everyone else. Like I said, time and effort is required. Is it your first time experiencing a nonp2w server? You're experiencing it now with Royals. Take longer time as you may, it is why 'time' is my point.

Why competition?
1. If there isn't a competitive aspect in the game, how are you to differentiate the good and the better, the best from the better? That being said, how are you to differentiate who made the effort to come thus far and who did not? When people request for your HP before recruiting you for a boss run, they're basically (and somewhat unknowingly) acknowledging your effort to reach such HP goals. If you haven't reach those minimum requirements, then work on it.

2. With no HP washing, the market will crash and everything sells for cheap cuz it doesn't pay to put in the effort anymore. Watch people slay HT like slaying snails. Watch mw20 drop to disgustingly low prices such that every single Tom Dick and Harry can purchase it and even worse, feel no pain when failing one.

Put them together?
The well-to-do players don't GitGud complaining about the game. They adapt to what they are not comfortable with and the fittest survive. It's always possible to reach end game. The only question is whether you want to? Or you just want the easy way out.

 

You think a game is only about competition, and healthy competition is "what keeps a game running".

May I ask you, why should MapleRoyals be competitive? And, would you really classify this as healthy?

First, consider that MapleRoyals:

• Is based off a 15 year old game that is made for a younger audience
• Is a private server with a plethora of "convenience" features that make the game easier. These include boosted exp, mesos, and drop rates, the godly system, unlimited NX, tradeable NX, and HP washing
• Has no PVP
• "GittingGud" as you would put it, requires zero skill and HP washing nullifies the difficulty of the only challenging boss in the entire game
• Gameplay requires no teamwork and consists of mind numbingly holding 1 button for hours on end

However, after all these points, you still argue that this is healthy competition and the "well-to-do players adapt to what they are not comfortable with and the fittest survive". Only the fittest survive, what is this a joke? Wake up, you elitist sheep! Maplestory is not meant to be a competitive game. Step off your high horse, and realize that HP washing has broken the community, broken class balance, and has far removed MapleRoyals from being a nostalgic server.

And by the way, I am not complaining because I want the game to be easier. I have played this server for almost three times as long as you (18 months vs 6 months), I have four 4th job characters, and I have a 30k hp Hero and soon a 30k hp si mule. I'm arguing my point because I believe modifing HP washing in some way would make the game better.

Furthermore, I'm sure MapleRoyals would STILL BE COMPETITIVE without HP washing with people indefinitely upgrading their gear and making mules. Furthermore, removing or limiting HP washing would remove the barrier to entry for new players, restore class balance, make levels 1-120 more meaningful, and restore relevance to the majority of zones and content in the game. Yes, finding a solution that is fair to old players would take planning. Completely removing HP washing would be wayyy too extreme. But we will never reach the point if people can't agree about HP washing, which is why I argue my points against it.

Get rekt nerd. Jk I don't mean it but I feel strongly about this.