These are my rough calculations for the dodge rate changes. Indeed, the nerf is more favorable for SED mules as it punishes having more LUK more heavily. For SED mules with relatively less LUK, the nerf is not as big as the effect gets negated by the shadow shifter "buff". EDIT: The spreadsheet gets embedded against my will so here is a direct link.
That only shows physical dodge and the dex/luk scaling changes means that higher level characters lost more avoid. I redid the calcs using a magic avoid formula I got from someone decompiling the v62 client, and since I lack the expertise to do the same on v83 and doubt it was changed, I'm just using that formula. It's important to note that the dodge chance is 0 if your avoid is under mob avoid for magic attacks. Here are the numbers from my night lord's stats Spoiler: NL avoid And here are the values for a thief with the same stats you used Spoiler: 45 dex 720 luk
@Joong @Karven To help getting everything in this change into better context, could you guys share with us the formula royals uses for the following?: Formula for hit-rate of a mob against a character Formula for avoidablity before and after the nerf for the thief class If we'll have a confirmed formula for both of those, we could construct a graph that will show how much of a nerf this actually was. Right now people work with formulas that can be found online, but from experience with those, they don't always match reality in royals. I feel like this thread is too reactional, if we'll get more insight into how this change works, we would give proper feedback, and hold a real conversation here instead of this echo chamber of "WHY NERF REEEE"
Bold statement. You want my take on it? Hard agree. As much as i love pets, if there was no auto pot mules would be non existent and a lot of todays changes wouldnt be necessary/unnecessary as the issue would be mostly solved. Not sure why avoid was nerfed though- i dont ever remember a discussion on this (may have changed in the last 2 weeks or so), i do remember expressing concern how you could avoid 1/1 attacks and warriors couldnt block it with pg but nothing like this..so anyones guess is as good as mine.
Even if they cannot peer into the inner works of the client, they have the ability to tinker with all the stats of their testing character to their heart's content, which would allow for very quick testing of forumas that are out there. And for the avoid one, they were the ones that changed it, so I'm pretty sure they know at least that one lol.
you're right about the avoid formula and that was pretty easy to reverse engineer, it's .25 dex + .25 luk for thieves. Luk should at least give *some* more avoid than other stats if .5 was deemed overpowered.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" There was no need to nerf the avoidability on Night Lord/Shadower. It was perfect the way before the nerf on avoidability and it was part of their identity as thieves main stats is LUK! I accepted the fact Night Lord will always be the superior class in damage. This version of Maplestory have never been balanced, however what could have been done was close the gap of other classes and make bossing/future content challenging. I am interested in how the decisions were made and what does it provide for the community.
I don't completely disagree with you here but the same can be said for the staff testing team***. I hope testings for before/after these changes were actually done by them and quantified in terms of whatever direction they intend to achieve "balance" in, be it making the thief class get hit more often like every other classes (potion consumption per run etc.) or indirectly lowering their DPS by making them reposition more often (time taken per run etc.). If the testings have been done by the staff team and the changes judged justifiable by them, perhaps it would be nice if you can show us your dataset to convince players of your decision? These so called records that you are waiting to appear are not as easily synthesized by most of the playerbase as they are for staffs since we do not have access to a sandbox mode where we can experiment with these changes ourselves pre/post-change. To add on, it is only natural for the players to feel biased against the change after getting punched into their face the impression that they got nerfed. Spoiler: a very very poor analogy if you give a monkey one less banana after feeding it the same amount since the beginning i doubt it will give you any happy responses when you go and ask it how it feels about the change even though it probably didnt really need that extra one banana? Again, a little more transparency on how the staffs came to deciding that exactly halving the luk factor on avoid and reverting this shifter nerf would be nice. If 999 avoid is really as unimportant as you have suggested, what was the reason behind this nerf then? Because I honestly don't recall seeing players getting this upset about the 10% shifter nerf back then compared to now. Spoiler: bonus Spoiler: not a flame okay? *** little asterisks because i'm not sure if the staffs are testing things anymore after seeing a full fledged gm being rather unsure about the existence of tespia on shoutbox hehe xd
Guess we'll just have to wait for April blog since that's where they explain everything about previous patch
@Aeronautics I can tell you I have no idea what the direction was behind these changes. Been in no contact with staff since I left. I was just giving the perspective from when I was on my gm character. If I knew the true reason I'd probably have a more detailed post. Just going by my personal view of the situation. The main reason I posted in here was because I'm just sick of seeing feedback threads being made not even 12 hours after changes are done and wanted people to gather a wider view of the effects before coming here.
Ye that wasn't directed at you since you're not on the staff team anymore. Just thought your points were worth quoting on
New avoid calculation is: Code: (LUK / 4 + DEX / 4) + Equip Avoid + Nimble Body Avoid Old avoid calculation was: Code: (LUK / 2 + DEX / 4) + Equip Avoid + Nimble Body Avoid Client restrictions mean that the LUK value can only be divisible by values such as 2, 4, 8, 16, etc... Therefore a middle-ground of LUK / 3 was not possible. For the physical damage calculation for monster accuracy, if the following returns true, the character will be 'missed'. I've removed aspects such as Darkness debuffs etc to simplify as best as possible: Code: double effectiveAvoid; if (characterLevel >= monsterLevel or (characterAvoid -= (monsterLevel - characterLevel) / 2 > ) { effectiveAvoid = characterAvoid; } else { effectiveAvoid = 0; } double effectiveAccuracy = effectiveAvoid / (monsterAccuracy * 4.5) * 100.0; if (thiefClass) { effectiveAccuracy = Math.min(95.0, Math.max(5.0, effectiveAccuracy)); } else { effectiveAccuracy = Math.min(80.0, Math.max(2.0, effectiveAccuracy)); } return effectiveAccuracy > (randomNumber % 10000000) * 0.0000100000010000001; Afterwards, roll the Shadow Shifter % chance, if that fails, the character will be dealt damage.
Do you have the magic attack dodge formula or can confirm if the formula I'm working with is correct? This is the decomp I'm working with https://pastebin.com/y0Cd9XR6
Natsy has a point, what was all this nerf targeting at? what do yall wish to achieve with this update? If its aint broken, why fix it?
Magic damage formula for miss is fairly similar, without the thief passive: Code: double effectiveAvoid; if (characterLevel >= monsterLevel or (characterAvoid -= (monsterLevel - characterLevel) / 2 > ) { effectiveAvoid = characterAvoid; } else { effectiveAvoid = 0; } double reducedAvoid = effectiveAvoid * 0.1; double randomAvoid = (effectiveAvoid- reducedAvoid) * (randomNumber % 10000000) * 0.000000100000010000001 + reducedAvoid; return randomAvoid >= mobAccuracy;
