Thank you all for your feedback regarding the timer system in Lionheart Castle. It is clear that there is room for improvement with the current timer system; in regards to both the difficulty of finding an appropriate party, and the restrictiveness of the timer itself. However, we are also glad to see there have also been many positive experiences had from the new content! We have been reviewing the suggestions in this thread as they have been coming in, as well as brainstorming ideas ourselves. While some comments question why there is a timer restriction on the bonus EXP at all, the simple answer is that the area was implemented to offer an alternative way of gaining a large amount of EXP compared to the pre-existing methods which consist solely of bossing. The reason why there is a restriction on how long you can gain bonus EXP for is the same reason as why bosses like Wulin Yaoseng have a daily limit, as allowing players an unlimited time to grind with the bonus EXP would open the door to being able to gain what we believe would be an excessive amount of EXP. Some have also argued that the timer should be removed and the EXP simply reduced to counter the excessive gain, however this would cause bossing for EXP to always be more beneficial if you have a limited time to play the game, leaving this to be a last resort alternative rather than a compelling alternative. As staff and caretakers of the game for years to come, we have to be mindful of implementations that could cause other content to be obsolete, and the current implementation of LHC we believe finds a good middle-ground of keeping other grinding areas and EXP-bosses worthwhile. Other comments question the purpose of the area since it provides nothing for those already level 200, and apart from the gachapon-like token exchange, this is true, as the current provision caters almost solely to gaining EXP - The Von Leon boss however, would be a different story. We believe that the current 1 hour timer and EXP gains are substantial, but understand that the timer can sometimes feel punishing when groups lose party members during their grind, this is in a way similar to losing party members during boss runs. However, an idea we have that could help alleviate how punishing it feels, is to allow players to continue to be able to grind within the maps after the timer expires, without gaining bonus EXP for themselves, but still providing bonus EXP to the other party members still on the timer. This may not help in every single scenario, however for times where a party member might have less time than some others in the party, that player could at least continue to grind after the time limit to help the rest of the party finish their grind. Or in the case of a party member disappearing entirely, the party could ask a friend who may also already have an expired timer to help them finish their session. In regards to difficulty finding parties, it's possible that it may simply take a bit more time for some players to realise the potential that can be gained from participating in grind sessions at LHC. However, admittedly apart from buddy/guild/alliance chat and megaphones, the game does lack a system for players to search for and organise parties (in general, not just for LHC), so we are looking into the possibility of implementing a custom party finder system, where players could advertise a party they are looking to create, and where players could find parties to join. We are hoping this could be accessed intuitively to the party window itself, in place of the current 'search' button. We will continue to review this thread and further comments, so please feel free to keep giving input and any suggestions you may have on the area.
This implies people only boss because of limited time to play which is completely wrong. People boss because its by and far the best way to level. We could change that.. but staff seem hesitant to give a good place to grind a fair shake, by gimping it right out of the gate instead of implimenting it in its clean, vanilla, format
Mm not true, why do you think 200s continue to HT/Auf/boss? Definitely not leveling, that’s for sure. Whole lotta assumptions here. It’s odd and hypocritical that you’re accusing staff of not giving the community “a good place to grind a fair shake” - when you have quite literally said you have not reinstalled and tried out the content yet, and refuse to do so unless they listen to your untested demand to remove the timer. Perhaps having a more open mind to the work that staff is putting in to implement new content for us would be a better approach than coming at them so aggressively and without even trying out the content first?
Other people enjoy grinding over bossing, and we would like to offer an alternative route for those people to grind. Hence why we've also decided to give this place an immense EXP overhaul to be on par with Bossing. If we let it be a free-for-all as it is right now with the current EXP bonus, it would break the game. How? Because everybody would be fighting for a map, it would turn into leeching spots during EXP events (Constantly full, people buying maps, selling maps, stealing maps, etc...) , and people selling LHC maps. Imagine making 191m EXP per hour at the second map, and having that be limitless. That is a giant trainwreck waiting to happen. Bosses are limited daily (Shao x1, Zak x2 HT x2 Krex x2, etc.) So why should this be limitless, if Bossing isn't limitless but the EXP generated is great(er) than Bossing in some circumstances?
Im a aware in its current state it would be too good. Ive said a dozen times you could have nerfed it instead of an arbritrily set timer, that no other grindinf spot in the game has. I mean... no duh people arent bossing at 200 for levels???
The simplest alternative in my opinion would be to just simply remove the timer and lower the exp/h gained here. In addition to some fastest forms of exp HT still has it's mastery books and htp, Shao is still free exp for how easy he is to kill for very little time investment, Krex still has the ring, Toad still has the head band and toad oils, etc. There's still plenty of reason to kill bosses other than exp. I understand the concern though because LHC is arguably one of the most over powered grinding areas Maplestory ever seen, but please understand that the timer, just to put it really really simply, it just sucks. If we can get a solution that doesn't involve a timer completely kicking people out or a timer running out making the grind irrelevant would be greatly appreciated by the community I would hope.
How about making LHC available twice a day while keeping the timer? (1hr each time) I admit removing the timer completely without nerfing the exp would be definitely too good. Howhever making it available twice would definitely encourage people give it a try?
[ If you dont want to have a serious discussion, why bother replying at all dude. Go post that shit in memes.
They could also allow people to roll over time. (If theyre just not interested in removing the timer completely) My issue is this is targeting people who play every day, and thats simply not possible for everyone. Bossing was always a limited number per day, that is established which is why i would never suggest doing the same with bossing. But grinding, thats not how it works anywhere else in the game, it wasnt like this on GMS.
Make 2 separate maps for entire LHC, one for questing where you get nerfed XP with no drops other than quest drops and longer time (2-3hr maybe), and another set of grinding map that can only be entered with expedition, like HTPQ, so that people start at the same time, leave at the same time.
I called out your bossing comment because you very matter-of-factly stated/assumed that "People boss because its by and far the best way to level" - when people boss for far more reasons than that - for fun, social experience, meso gain. Also, if you had bothered to try out LHC and got the 200m EXP/hour and compared this to numbers that bossing gives - you'd know that this EXP/hour ratio is far better than ideal bossing conditions, such as: Duo Krex (BS leaves after HS, run is complete in 20-30min is 85-130m EXP/hour) Quad HT (BS leaves after HS for all body parts, run is complete in 60-80min is ~115-133m EXP/hour) Not to mention, attackers in boss runs are usually full apple-ing or stopper-ing while participants in LHC are usually using Energizers or below. However, this is all besides the main point that I was trying to convey with my reply to you though, that you seem to have so conveniently overlooked. My main point in replying to you was to have you take a step back and realize that you may be fixating too hard on your very specific issues you have with the LHC content (that you haven't even tried) and ignoring parts of the reasonable replies that you have gotten from staff. Here, where you replied to Matt's very detailed and reasonable response to the feedback here in this thread, including ideas such as: 1) To allow players to continue to be able to grind within the maps after the timer expires, without gaining bonus EXP for themselves, but still providing bonus EXP to the other party members still on the timer. 2) Looking into the possibility of implementing a custom party finder system, where players could advertise a party they are looking to create, and where players could find parties to join (which is WAY more than generous of a solution) You chose to ignore both of these ideas and fixate on your unfounded assumptions that "[bossing is] by and far the best way to level", "staff seem hesitant to give a good place to grind", that staff was "gimping it right out the gate". If you want to have a serious discussion, maybe: - Actually try out the content - Know what you are talking about when it comes down to the actual math - Have some respect to the people spending time to have this discussion and their ideas - Take that bass (and entitlement) out your voice and understand that we are fortunate to have a staff that is actively looking to include content for all of Royals' playerbase and actually actively interacting with the community afterwards for feedback edit: a word
This had to be said, there is no way feedback can be taken a 100% seriously without people trying the content. Same thing happened with the Neo Tokyo feedback. Give the content a try and then going ham on your feedback. I've been having a ton of fun doing LHC every day or every other day. That being said a party finder would make this content almost perfect imo.
I refuse to use the content as its done here. That doesnt mean i dont know what LHC is, I played a lot of it on GMS, and the only difference as far as grinding is concerned is the timer. The mobs, so ive been told, are the same. Im okay dying on this hill, as stated before. This content as its made, is not for me, and thats okay. I can only play occasionally, which is why I have an issue with the timer. If staff decide its not going to change thats fine, they just need to say so and this thread can come to an end. But till then, i will fight for it, especially since im not the only one with an issue with the timer. Im well aware of the math, I have said this, I get it cant be released without a timer in its current state. I. Get. It. Ive said it. I might disagree with nerfing it too hard, but i fully understand, and would fully expect a nerf if the timer is removed. I support that, as stated many times over 8 pages. As for the sass and entitlement as you call it, I know im not entitled to anything, doesnt mean i cant disagree with content. Thats why the feedback forum exists, and why i spent the majority of my time there when I was staff myself. Its important, but im not the one posting memes. My last comment, removing the timer will make it objectively more accessible to the players.
If that is how LHC was intended to be.. I personally then don't think it's necessary for players like me (who seek meso gain rather than purely exp) to even make a fuss about this content. I'll wait for Von Leon no problem. I think it's just that at the back of my head I did kinda wondered if this content was released with the intention of having end game players. But hearing it from the man himself, I am now in good faith they understood what they were doing. I leave the rest of the discussion up to the casual players who love the type of content.
I also played a ton of LHC in GMS. Wasn't LHC released in GMS after big bang, potential and new classes? (all of them which changed grinding completely) You should also remember how LHC transformed from a grinding spot to a leeching spot in no time in GMS. My point is the LHC experience in royals is and feels way different than the experience of LHC on GMS and you won't really know if you like it or not until you give the content a try, maybe for a week or two. I like how passionate some of us are on discussing changes of this server. I'm glad this hasn't changed in the 4 years I've been here
Im sure like most places it could be leeched, of course, leeching exp in a party is as old as time with Maple. My friends 200 video he jokes that he got to 200 by leeching, which really at the time wasnt a "thing" with mages, besides using fp mages and pg, but we all got into a party and then left and left the party grind while we went and got a water, etc. I know there are pros and cons to the current system, i just feel the con of having a timer fsr outweighs the pros of the other stuff added. That said, i know i wont like it. Im a grinder and for me the freedom to do it whenever i want, with whoever i want, is really paramount. I spent 50 levels at newts because I was grinding with friends and guildies on gms. The exp, while best i could get at the time was really not what was important. I know with my time difference and the hour limit itll be very hard for me to group with people, and I think the best way to fix this is to not limit when people can use the content.
Then how do you feel about Matt's idea here: This would essentially allow LHC to be the grindy map you seem to be looking for, without timing limitations, and, in addition to being a more accessible mid- to end-game grinding map, also include the current 1-hour bonus EXP a daily player would be able to get each reset. Spoiler: "Not as relevant to the actual thread, but important nonetheless" I believe there is a correct way (or at least much better, respectful ways) to express disagreement and discontent on forums. As you've been on staff in the past and, I'm sure, have received your fair share of unwarranted aggression from the community, I challenge you to look back at your previous posts and ask yourself if you could've approached (and can approach, moving forward) the discussion in a more productive and reasonable manner.
As long as the exp is still better than current "diverse content", like leafre, tot, etc, I am more than willing to support that change if it means that god awful timer is gone, for the most part. Lol This should be the logical grinding progression after those other locations I mention, I dont have have a strong opinion otherwise, it could be 10x better or just a little bit better. Edit: It would act a lot like a 2x card, ya know, help you out at the beginning of the training session.
While it is slightly off-topic to this thread, in regards to the trade in token system: I think that in order to promote the LHC content more, you guys should add a jackpot smega to good items that come from the rewards. That's a pretty straight forward way to at least generate some interest to the players who are unsure about this new content.
