So what if HP washing is now the entire economics? Creating a mesos sink doesn't mean good game play. I'm sure that after the change I'm suggesting the market will go crazy for a bit. Then calm down. If problems will be found in the new market, rates could be altered and control. Every good market (even in real life) have regulations. By the way, the vote -> AP reset -> mesos is maybe a good source on income, but it also the main cause of the massive Mesos inflation. People keep creating money out of nothing, which makes little by little the same money less valuable. Maybe soon we will have to buy the same mediocre stuff in 10s or even 100s of bills, who knows. Dude chill, I'm trying to reply all. I'm not in the forum 24/7. Seems like you completely ignored what I wrote. I bet you read a half, maybe less. And you contradict yourself when you say: "the server is supposed to be nostalgic, not a retake on old school maple with custom balancing" and: "pally got buffed to bring it more inline because it was so bad compared to other melees, drk didnt really see many changes, and neither did hero. yet bucc, yet again was buffed to bring it more inline with the other classes" So it's both a nostalgic server and it ok to balance? Instead of balancing you just switch the term to "bring it more inline". And again, as stated in previous comments, I NEVER SAID MAKE ALL DPS EASY. I'm sure someone can come up with a system that will make HP gaining equally hard to the current situation. But whats wrong with just making it fair? It feels like you excuse the balancing acts as not ruining the GMS experience, yet in GMS those classes were balanced only in later patches. So some things can be balanced and some can't? That's hypocrisy. More systems in the game can be fixed just like classes were balanced. I don't see people crying that now the server is ruined since pali is actually playable. Oh and I'm sure this won't tailor the game specifically to me. I know enough people that agree with me and the polls help. I do think it really comes down to what Matt thinks of this matter.
pally was unplayable back then hence why it got some buffs to make it as worthwhile as the other melee (giving a class quality of life changes definitely is not the same as straight buffing and nerfing), the current ranged classes are playable deal fine dps, and can get the required hp to do what they're designed to do. pally couldn't do that without actual intervention dude. i just think you're pushing this remove hp washing agenda you have way too hard man. slimetales tried something different with a peridot system and it still caved as it was essentially the same thing as a apr only difference was that they dropped from mobs inflation was still bad, they were still pricey, and it was still annoying af to deal with; while at the same time i found myself wishing i could just wash
The idea im suggesting is going to get you the exact same goal, but without tedious shit, with out planning out you character in the end game since level 10. That's what I hate about hp washing. For all I care make the HP quests receive AP resets for HP, but the point is you can reset whenever you want without needing to plan this out from the start. Does it seem logical to you to plan out your end game (which can even take years, depending on how often you play) from level 10? This is just too much in my opinion. I'm suggesting a good solution for both casual players and hardcore players (face it, most of the players are casuals and it'll be much more approachable to them). And if implemented well it will greatly increase the server's popularity, I know enough people who had enough of how much they need to plan ahead when they just hit first job. Let the player enjoy the journey and deal with end game stuff in the actual end game. I believe there is a good solution That all will be pleased. Don't you? I wish instead of throwing counter arguments at me dead on we could think together of a good mid-solution that all will be happy about. It's not only me, look at the polls. and I'm sure there are more to come. I'm sure that if Matt will realize this is such a controversial topic, he will have to make a decision. Whether it's keeping things the way there are therefore frustrating a lot of players and denying the server from many new players, or find a nice solution that all will be happy about. I personally really like the latter.
Has nothing to do with or without hp washing. People will play what they like. Hp washing is an extremely convoluted bug method that cripples gameplay, forces the economy to bend over its existence entirely, and is 100% the meta. Royals will do not shit to change it because of the backlash of existing or in progress chars exploiting it, because these gears toward character development and fueling the economy is a convoluted meta game gap they expect you to eventually accept and undertake. But they will also indirectly nerf MM because they have zero meta presence Ideas: -change all attacks that gatekeep nonwashers out to 1/1 attacks -make maple warrior give you like 10% boost or some % based on your current, stacks with hb -have all AP, give some additional value of hp as you level up as well, maybe extra every 10 points in that stat, and remove the hp/mp choice entirely. Str would give the most. The hp/mp boost would be an effect and not permanent, so if you tried rolling back with apr to use the same method to wash, youd just lose it
HP washing wasn't as much a thing on the original server as it is now. As on GMS you had to pay with NX to be able to do this, so very few did. I don't consider it a good mechanic because it impairs certain classes and not all of them.
Hp washing as it's set up double whammies new players. First, their first character if it's not a mage will be essentially worthless since despite what kool-aid some people are trying to push here, no one is taking a fucking 5k no nl/BM/mm/sair to HT, pushing many to just say fuck this and quit and secondly by removing a large pool of possible pqers for the 30-100 grind becuase they're all full int and can't do anything but leech. As much as I would like washing to be completely removed (since needing to spend 1.2m nx on a character to make it playable as the main 160-200 boss is absurd), no one is asking for that, instead a real way for unwashed characters to participate in HT and now Neo Tokyo is all we really ask/hope for. If they extend the current hp quest with the same scaling (O(n) with 1 more seed per turn in), it would allow for unwashed characters to reach useful hp thresholds without devauling the sense of pride and accomplishment that people who have already washed has achieved. It would cost 1081 seeds or around 16b at current prices to do the quest to 10k at 155 (which is about 8b more than it took me to get to 13k) and if you're worried about your 30k NL being devalued, Itll cost 27966 Seeds to be 30k at 200. Do the math vs 30b it cost you to wash and get back to me on which is cheaper.
i'm not saying there isnt a middle ground we cant agree upon but washing is not nearly as bad as it once was presource when the common price for a reset was almost 18m. consider a solution like this, and you'll be surprised how many players wouldn't mind it
Honestly just make an npc that gives HP for mesos, like 25m for 20 HP or so (more HP for warriors/buccs) This way you still need mesos and effort to wash but you could wash at any lvl you want and avoid all the nonsense with int
I didn't even read your post prior to making my own, but it's nice of you to so willingly group yourself among them. The self awareness is commendable nonetheless.
Still pretty annoying. I remember times when it was 12m and pretty steady. Now it's 15m and might rise, AGAIN.. For the proposed solution it sounds really promising. I think further development might just perfect it and make everyone happy. All it really comes down to is whether the administration would take that step or not. Maybe a better question for a poll might be: "Does HP gaining in the current meta should be changed to ALSO be more approachable and less annoying?"
I'm all for keeping HP wash as it is. I've washed 2 Night Lords and a Hero. I also have a Buccaneer im going to wash to 30k as well. I just wanted to point out, that if you mean before New Source launched on Jan 1st 2017, then the price of a single AP Reset was 7-8m. I have never seen it go above 16m an APR in my time here.
The self unawareness of telling a bunch if people they are wrong without how in any way and the loving everything about a glitch most people are against is pretty lmaoo
I don't think that even if the suggested solution below will be implemented you will actually lose anything. If the solution is going to be equally challenging to what people have previously done with HP washing, would you really mind? I mean, it will just mean you chose another way to gaining HP and surviving the end game, which will be equally difficult to the proposed solution, just not as tedious.
APR/CS/WS priced are heavily impacted by RWTers. It hit 16m too 1-2 months ago. There was some guy smegaing everyday B>APR 15.5m........................ for like two months straight. It seemed pretty clear he was flipping them outwards. Since mesos don’t mean anything to rwters it doesn't matter if they keep hicking it up cause they’re probably botting for mesos. We banned a huge amount of rwters since last anni event.
Was only here for the salt at first but these suggestions do make a lot of sense. Implementing another way to gain HP without having to invest in loads of base INT/gears would allow players to actually play their characters all the way instead of having to pay/self-leech for EXP until bossing levels. I can definitely see PQs being repopulated if this is a thing because low level leech is horseshit anyway. Making the HP quest repeatable with increasing difficulty sounds like a really healthy way to go about this. However, I would suggest that the cost for getting more HP with this new method be adjusted such that it makes a noticeable difference cost-wise from washing the old way, i.e. with base INT/gears and all. This way both systems can coexist and it's up to the players to choose which way they want to play the game. Players who are relatively funded can still choose to wash with INT (with better HP-to-meso ratio) and basically pay their way until their character is ready to boss since they probably have already done it the hard way with their earlier characters anyway while new players will not be discouraged to pick classes with lower base HP to start the game with and also be able to join all the boss runs- albeit with more effort.
trust me man i've sold apr my entire mapling career. i said right before presource dropped it was either then or right after it became stable.
That's not how inflation works. The fact that people make aprs from thin air actually needs to lower its price. But it doesn't because the server is in a mostly stable ratio between meso generation and meso sink. And the demand of apr keeps growing as people get more and more ambitious with their washing plans. Inflation happens when there are too many coins, which makes sellers raise prices cause people will still buy. In a game where money is generated from thin air by npcing equips and looting meso, money will keep piling up if nothing will keep it in check. Aprs do not affect the rate of inflation as much as things like leeching, proxy trading with CS and WS, trade tax, npc buying, wilfred storage tax etc etc
I don't know if making the proposed solution harder than the current method is OK, I'd rather go for a somewhat equal ratios, but I do agree it's a start. Also as someone who really loves PQing, it's really annoying seeing the place empty while there are 1k people on. Everyone is leeching from a very low level, and those who don't afford it, leech in cpqs and annoy everyone else in the party. There's an entire part of the game we neglected since HP washing. The entire early to mid game is a fun part of it as well, but instead most of us leech to bossing levels. Really loving where this discussion is going I guess you're right, drop rates really affect greatly the Mesos inflation since people create money from thin air. Now when I think about it, if you look at AP resets as a daily salary of some sort, which stay around the same pay, it really does make sense that it doesn't affect the inflation so much. Using analogies to the real world really helps and it might help this game's economy as well I take that back, thanks for showing me where I was wrong
