How's it tone-deaf to suggest a workaround to increased prices? The new star prices are in place now, it's not like "veteran" players can do anything about them. Encouraging to sacrifice 2~4 damage for cost-efficiency is not tone-deaf. And people, you do not HAVE to HP wash, you do not HAVE to play NL, you do not HAVE to use ilbis, and you do not HAVE to make a bishop... this narrative gets so tiring.
Many here are just jumping from one extreme to the other in their argumentation. I read that somehow you are expected to pay 15 bil to create a certain char?? HP washing is just really NOT mandatory!! At all! It is mandatory if you want to be the strongest char of your class, yes, but as I said you guys are thinking in extremes! The game principle is centered on grinding, just embrace this and move on! If grinding is not for you, then the whole game is just simply not made for you (not meant to be mean here, but its just a fact). Why are people not throwing kumbis like in old day maple? I was a high lvl sin (up to lvl94 in 2007 meant you were under top 100 of the server) back then on broa and I could afford one set of ilbis back then after years of playing. It cost me and my bro 32 mil in total back then and it was over the top op. We found one more set one day and it was the biggest drop ever. I was constantly broke cause I played sin but we played everyday and had a lot of fun. Back then you actually used every kind of pot and looted everything you could, just to make mesos. Back then you saved your mana on low lvl mobs and just threw one star to kill them instead of just mindlessly spamming stars like you do on royals. If you really play for the nostalgic feel you should embrace it that its indeed hard to make a good balance in true maple. Back then you went to grind on coolies for 3 hours and then attempted a zak run together with 10-20 other people. Well, tahts probably too far back but still you went to good maps to grind to afford boss runs. Maple was challenging economically. Do you remember getting free NX and extremely expensive things every event? No, thats right It did not exist in bbb, so really every complaining here about higher prices is just maybe "first world problem maple complaints". Is it really true that the star prices do NOT affect rich NLs though? How a bout a typical HT run where you bust like 30 sets of ILBIS. For lvl 150 and below, your dmg just doesnt matter anyway, so you dont have to use Ilbis at all. But for HT runs or Toad, yes your dps counts, so how about those NLs? How many stars do you throw in a 1:20 h HT run? If you snipe newties all the time and its great xp, but it doesnt pay of economically, maybe you should consider changing maps from time to time in between to get some money - to be able to come back. Why do you guys even expect a top lvl spot to pay off economically as well in the first place? This is inherently expecting the game to be unbalanced. I have the feeling that a lot of people here are just spoiled really hard and are not used anymore to have to have some skill in this game - e.g. map choices and figuring out how to play well. If it really is unplayable now, It is of course a problem. But I doubt that nerfing the best class in the game by far (!) just a little bit, it makes them unplayable suddenly over night. EDIT: TL&DR every class has their cons. Con of sin is cost.
Can anybody do the math for a lvl 30/50/70/100/120 Sin using steelys vs Ilbis and compare the relative dmg numbers for each level ? Im pretty sure the difference in both absolute and relative dmg/second numbers is minimal... "can't afford my ilbis!!1!!" Sorry what? This server has had 29att shoes and is inflated with equipments that were far less common with high stats on the original servers back in the day... Heck i didn't even have mesos for ilbis back then... What are you all whining about?? Having 2 w.att less in the early game won't break the game experience lmao So stop crying about the most overtuned class in the game recieving a well deserved nerf adjustment. You don't even lose out on DPS once you hit the bossing stages of the game!
Lol. "There's nothing wrong with this specific change to this class, because you don't HAVE to play this class!!!11!!" Sound logic there. There's nothing wrong with any aspect of Royals at all because you don't HAVE to play Royals! Whether or not you "need" to HP wash is a pretty dense argument so I won't get into it in here at risk of derailing the thread. No, it's not going to affect rich NLs at all. Let's use your own example of an 80 minute horntail run. Shadow Star eats 200 stars and lasts 2 minutes, allowing you to throw unlimited stars during that time period. For an 80 minute run, thats 80 / 2 = 40 Shadow Star Casts x 200 stars = 8000 illbis. 8 sets of illbi x 2.8 mil per set = 22.4 mil. Considering HTP VIP goes for 400m and HT regularly drops MW20/Gene30/TT30 which sell for 2.5b/1.5b/700m, no, 22.4 mil is nothing. Especially considering if you're strong and funded enough to have a Night Lord running Horntail regularly, you've definitely got another character pouring in leech income. To your point about sniping newties, clearly you have never grinded a hermit or read the previous posts. Sniping newties is *not* "great" exp. It is one of the few viable training options for a hermit, and even then it's pretty tough. If this server wants to encourage people to grind, then making it cost 4-5mil per hour in stars alone for a newer player to grind would be counterintuitive, no? Also "just move to a map with more economic payoff" like what? Sins/hermits/night lords in general are terrible at mobbing, they can't exactly farm any map. I fail to see how the mere presence of high attack gear elsewhere in the server is relevant to a discussion of whether or not a class-specific change is too cost-prohibitive for newer players. Quit with the red herring, let's stick to the subject, please. It's not merely an adjustment of 2 weapon attack. You realize that even for *icies* the cost to recharge has increased 45x? And quit setting up the strawman argument that "zomg we're mad cuz u nerfed NL, NL story only plz, all other class r dumb." It's lazy and disingenuous. We are trying to discuss this specific change on its merits. Notice how no one is making a thread about the alchemist or shadow shifter nerfs, both of which were well-deserved and ACTUALLY help balance the class, rather than disproportionately burden new players.
Honestly I don't see a point in arguing with someone whose argument is "I want a top-tier character without putting in any effort, anything otherwise is design fault of the server". Good luck.
You guys are all right! They should roll back costs of recharging throwing stars back where it was and deduct damage of lucky 7 and TT by 20% instead! That will teach these pesky NLs where is their place!
coolness >>> DPS illbis and up = not cool and not nostalgic steelys were for the cool people remember when people wore brown bamboo with sauna robe (not bathrobe) and maple kandayo? those were the real OG cool sin/hermit/NL
I play in this server for 4 yrs, i have a NL and i can see why the admins wanted to nerf the class. The alchemist nerf is great and requires me to buy more apples. This is fine: let apple prices rise, i'd gladly pay more like11-12m if it means a better economy and a good way for new players to gain meso early on. I dont mind and im sure top players wouldnt mind this either. I also think meso sink in form of pots is a great idea, especially the fact that u targeted %pots (end game pots). I saved the recharge sink for last because this is the one thing i have a suggestion for. I like the idea its a good idea to sink meso in form of recharge. But with this in mind, i will not be affected by this change AT ALL. Maybe i will sink more meso than an avg NL but i wont feel it at all game-wise. Its still meaningless compared to the amout of meso i get from bossing/farming. As a NL who wishes to see this server grows and expand in all classes including new NL's my suggestion may seem a little wild but check this out: DOUBLE prices of C.Ilbi recharge. Yes u heard right double what it ALRDY is. Furies? Double as well if must, triple it. I wanna see a washed nl with a perf craven and 10 sets of furies complaining about 750k recharge- if u see one btch slap him from me. All other stars including ilbis- reduce it to steely price The rest of the changes u made are spot on. TLDR: GM's please notice, Just like you handpicked the specific potions whose price you drastically increased, while leaving others to be, THE SAME LOGIC must be applied to stars (drastically increase end game stars, leave others to be).
I feel like you're saying this as a meme, but it would unironically be a better than the current change lol. (It still targets unfunded characters but at least you can play) Its tone-deaf because its ignoring the inherent core issues of this nerf. Its probably fine to downgrade to subis or steelys (it sucks, but whatever I guess), but who is this nerf targeted at? If the goal is to help remove mesos from circulation by creating money sinks in the form of pots and stars, then how does this achieve this in a reasonable way? Rich NLs who have funding support from their bishops will see no changes in their lives, literally 0. The only people who feel the pinch here are people who said, "I want to play an NL as my first class on this server, I dont want to make a mage to leech." Saying switch stars, while probably true, is like saying, "heh well, these prices are here to stay, so I guess suffer under the thumb of these new taxes! Me? I dont have to worry, I just made 2b from a drop I just got at HT! You though? Here, have a pack of subis on the house you little street rat you!" If you think the counter play is to switch stars, thats fine and its probably a decently fair point. But if you think this patch is justified and targeting the population of the server its intended to, then you're absolutely in the wrong. Saying, "you do not HAVE to play an NL" is very tone deaf. Like, the argument is that, "The game has many options, NLs are designed to be expensive end game bossing classes. If you aren't willing to put up with the costs, then you should switch to a class with much lower funding requirements." This is partly true, yes if you arent willing to put up with the fact that a decent craven will run you more than 1b, you should switch classes. If you aren't willing to put up with the cost of a 15att cape, you should switch classes. But notice, nobody is complaining here about the funding requirement for an NL, people are complaining about a bottle neck which specifically targets unfunded NLs who are just in to play the game. 5mil+ recurring is a HIGH burden to bear for any unfunded NL. If you are a hermit and unfunded, welcome to subi world. NLs SHOULD be expensive to play in relation to their EQUIPS. This funding bar is EXTREMELY fair! Removing illbis from the grasp of unfunded NLs just servers to widen the gap between the top NLs and the bottom NLs to a huge degree. Forcing Hermits to farm on subi damage makes an already extremely soul crushing leveling experience MUCH worse.
This isnt vanilla maplestory with vanilla drop rates. Vanilla maplestory was in a state where EVERYONE was poor. Nobody had really good gear and if you were the guy who randomly had a PAC from a gatch, even if it was a 1att PAC, you were a god king. Mapleroyals isn't vanilla, and it has been saturated for YEARS. When I left maplestory's retail copy (BBB) godly facestompers were 5 att and went for up to 15bil. 5att Facestompers are barely good anymore because the state of this game has progressed so much further than vanilla or retail. To compare the gamestate we are in now to the game state of vanilla or even BBB is like saying, "Well, our ancestors all lived in caves and hunted with sticks. It worked for them, so maybe we should return to that way of life!" Old vanilla Maplestory and even BBB Maplestory (which this game is based on) are barely comparable to current MapleRoyals, and economic policies that might have worked for those two game states are not likely to work for this one.
Literally never made that argument? I grinded a bishop to 1 hit skeles with the sole purpose of using it to fund a Night Lord and am currently doing so. This star recharge thing isn't going to affect me at all. I literally just want noobs to be able to train their little noob hermits and assassins without burning millions in star recharging per hour of training. That's literally it.
Anyways, whatever. I came in here to put in some initial thoughts on the change and likely issues it will cause. But I do think we at least owe the admins some time to test out the new changes before we expect/ask for some kind of a rework. So I'm outta here for a couple of weeks. I do anticipate that this change will end up getting tweaked, mainly because the hermit grind just went from soul crushing to soul-obliterating, and I think they want to encourage grinding over leeching. We'll see. Other NL nerfs are fine. GG.
You see, that's more logically than raising the recharge price. If you want to target the damage of NL and nerf them, change their skills or upgrade the skills of the "weaker jobs". But this change isnt ment to just lower the damage of a NL. A level 80 Hermit who has no alchemist, no shadow star, will lose alot of money just while he is grinding. And what about PQ's? what about Mu Long Dojo? you clearly dont get there any mesos just a belt like every other class but you gonna waiste there alot of mesos for recharge in the process. So yeah, its targeting the poor NL's, and the lower level NL's. And its now another "Pricey" item to the NL. While you can go to a little tour at the FM you can clearly see that the NL equips are expensive compared to the other jobs. You can see people selling maple items for all jobs around 1m while Kandayo and Scanda will cost you triple than this. And its not that the funded NL's wont be able to buy godly stuffs now that the recharge price raised, they just will grind a little bit more in bossing \ or their Bishop.
Gee, wish I had known it doesn't affect DPS. What am I gonna do with my ilbis now? ---- Now on a more serious note. While it is true that NLs are immensely overpowered, not all sins or hermits are Nightlords and some of them don't even care for the bossing experience. You're screwing the 'nostalgia' people out there who just play sin because they played it back in '05. I think it would be fair to charge characters based on their job (rogue, sin, hermit, and nl) if anything. I doubt this is possible to do but that would be a somewhat nice solution. (Goji, but eVeRyoNe's gOnNa MaEk a MulE 2 r3chaRgE thEir sTArs!!1) Well yes, weird stranger, but so be it: Rich players (high level nightlords) will just recharge 'em and pay full price for convenience and noobies remain partially unaffected. Sin is actually a really hard class to play if it wasn't for leeching and washing, without these you wouldn't see as many as you see now.
While i believe that this change is spot on, i personally have a bit of an issue with ilibis price specifically. Atm, ilbi stands in a very awkward spot. For 2 attack less, i can use steelies and have my recharge price be almost 4 times smaller. But if i want to use crystal ilbis, i need to pay quite a bit at the start then only pay 30% more than ilbis for extra 2 attack. What this means is that the use-case of ilbi become very fringe: If you are on the poorer side, using steelies and saving money for gear is the wise choice. And if you are earning good money later on, then i can also assume you can affort a cillbi, and why wouldnt you when the increase in relative price is that small in comparison to ilbis? (side note: while same logic stands for fury and MTK, their use price is in the right spot because the initial set price is so high) So yea, while the rest of the sets sit in a good place when it comes to price, ilbis just sit in a weird position where almost no one would want to use them. Bringing them to something like 200 per star would make them semi affordable to early 4th jobbers.
As a casual non-washed NL player who doesn't sell leech to earn mesos, I agree that the price change for recharging stars can be quite debilitating for low-medium funded players. Would like to request for GMs/Devs to review this change.
Illbi's existed back when maple hit it's first peak, back in v55. So, I agree to disagree. I haven't even seen a v55 server for 5+ years. Technically speaking, if you don't think that Illbi is nostalgic enough then the term, "NL Night Lord ect" should also be something you should add to your statement. Hermit or lower only. The term, "Night Lord" is way less nostalgic than Illbis, if we want to get super technical.
I agree im dealing with a similar issue, this patch also blindsided me after i spent a lot of my mesos. the price increase on star/bullet recharges is just TOO MUCH! EVERY recharge im spending AT LEAST 4million on stars alone at shops and that's excluding mesos spent on potions...I'm nearly bankrupt after completing prequests for Cwkpq,Krex and Pap on my 127NL...soloing pap was a Loss NO profit from drops but I used all my stars thanks to Lv1Shadowstars& Paps frequent debuff..I bet Hermits/NLs are gonna have to be billionaires to afford to complete their temple of time quests at this rate..this has been a horrible change so far by far the worst imo
Another thing that's really annoying are all the people being so passionate about nerfing a class they don't play or necessarily like for whatever reason. Instead of whining about strengths of another class thus ruining the fun for the people who do like it, why not just focus on the weaknesses of the class you're actually involved with? NLs have to work very hard to become "OP" from Hp washing down to expensive gearing nd throwing stars it takes effort if not it difficult to play ! Just leave Nightlords alone and give other jobs positive tweaks to give them a better or more relaxed experience. For Example give Sairs more Ship HP or protection from 1/1s to reduce the need for dismounting, give archers avoidability or a stance like passive?
