[-] What am I suggesting? I'm suggesting to have the level of the daily 'Search for the Elixir of Life' Quest be lowered from Lv150 to either Lv120 (what I recommend) or Lv130/135. [-] My reasoning for the suggestion Players who are interested in utilizing this quest should be able to access it at a point where they're strong enough to complete this (i.e. reaching 4th job) in order to be able to invest in their character in a smooth manner. The current lv150 requirement is too far away and removes part of the progress in investing in their characters. In Joong's GM Blog statement, he said "It should be clear then, that the idea is to reward long-term investment, and not just those who are able to play many hours on a daily basis." My suggestion to lower the Lv150 requirement to Lv120 (or lv130/135) is to better promote and re-enforce this idea. [-] But didn't Joong say "The level requirement was deemed appropriate, as no content for levels 150 or below requires more HP than can be acquired by the means already available [...]"...? Yes, in the same blog statement, Joong mentioned that as for why the Lv150 requirement was appropriate. However, this is in conflict from his earlier statement of saying to reward long-term investment as anyone who is completing the Elixir of Life questline are doing so not in preparation of Bosses Lv150 or below but rather past that (not including Shao/Neo Tokyo)! The reason people kept egging the Staff in the first place for more HP alternatives (which resulted in this HP quest being made) was not particularly due to Bosses below lv150 (not including Shao/Neo Tokyo). So it can be entertained that the appropriation determined by Joong, and in extension the Staff, in this aspect wasn't sensible in relation to what players would be and are trying to do. [-] Who does this negatively affect if the Elixir of Life lvl requirement is lowered? No one. If you take a look at @Nivi 's post, Comprehensive Search for the Elixir of Life / Reuel HP Quest Guide, lv150+, he had calculated the efficiency of the HP quest (even updating it with the recent quests) and was able to make the conclusion that "[...] using the traditional hp washing method is much more efficient" and "[t]his quest is not an efficient replacement for hp washing and should not be considered as such." So we can conclude that given the HP quest's efficiency, it isn't intrusive enough to change the strategy of veteran players or players who are potentially hardcore enough to perform the meta HP washing route for their characters. Veteran players who already washed their characters before the HP quest was implemented, after it was implemented, and possibly having my suggestion added in the future won't see any change that affects them. At best you'll have some Veteran players on the forums bemoan it but in reality, it doesn't affect them at all. [-] Who does this positively affect if the Elixir of Life lvl requirement is lowered? This widely benefits most non-heavily washed players (or characters) in being able to make the long-term investment of gathering HP in preparation for bosses past Lv150. Knowledgeable players can comfortably recommend the Elixir of Life questline to newer players who are reaching 4th job and didn't wash much/haven't washed at all. The chances of a player having to "start over" because they don't think leveling to lv150 for the HP quest is viable if they want to participate in the later bosses. As @LichWiz mentioned before, "low 4th jobs will benefit a lot from having a systematic questline to do that will naturally push them to grind, that will allow them to both progress in HP, and in exp." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you guys could vote and make a comment on your thoughts on my suggestion, it'd be greatly appreciated!
Firstly, I would like to say that this is my opinion as a player, and may not reflect what all of staff believes regarding this. I like this idea but I can see both sides of the argument. The other side being: this quest wasn't intended to be a replacement for hp washing altogether (it would be a shame if APR prices dropped to below 5m, how will newer players be able to get their initial funding), it's intended to help support those who didn't hp wash enough to not have to remake their character. Doing this quest for a few weeks (+100 hp/week) in addition to legendary collector, the other hp quest, and hp equips actually gives a lot of hp to unwashed players, who can do some of the end game content we have in Royals. Not everyone is meant to go run HT as soon as they hit level 155, but everyone should be able to once they hit the 16x or 17x levels (come on, how many of us actually ran ht at level 155 unless we were already funded, at least funded enough to wash ourselves). TLDR: I believe that washing should not be necessary. But if you didn't wash, it should be harder for you to do end game content at earlier levels without some significant time investment (and you're willing to wait a few dozen levels before running these types of content). If I were a newer player, having 10-15 levels of time, say level 155-170, to gather hp before HT (the first expedition-based end-game boss that needs some washing in order to survive without HB) would be plenty.
Thank you for commenting. What I'm discussing was waaayyy before you were in Staff, so you're free to write your opinions since it's not in conjunction with the Staff members who participated in designing the HP quest. I'll make a rundown of your points: [-] this quest wasn't intended to be a replacement for hp washing altogether, it's intended to help support those who didn't hp wash enough to not have to remake their character - It's accurate that the quest is intended to help support those who didn't HP wash (enough) and not to be a replacement for hp washing altogether. I just want to point out one thing to others that while the Staff and others may assert that the quest wasn't intended to be a replacement for HP washing, the nature of the quest being an 'Infinite Daily' quest rather a one-time quest (akin to the lv70 quest) makes it a HP washing replacement. It can't be interpreted any other way because it's infinite. It's just an inefficient alternative compared to the established HP washing meta as indicated by @Nivi 's post. [-] (it would be a shame if APR prices dropped to below 5m, how will newer players be able to get their initial funding) - This would be implying that the release of the 'Elixir of Life' quest since October has impacted the sales of APR and would continue to do so if the level of the quest were lowered. I disagree with this notion. The economy of the market all around has dropped considerably after patch #65 almost a year later. While CS/WS/etc are high priced due to Hackers/RWTers, it's not difficult to deduce that with items in the FM being lower priced, APRs would have fall in price too to match the other parts of the market. [-] Doing this quest for a few weeks (+100 hp/week) in addition to legendary collector, the other hp quest, and hp equips actually gives a lot of hp to unwashed players, who can do some of the end game content we have in Royals. - I agree. [-] Not everyone is meant to go run HT as soon as they hit level 155, but everyone should be able to once they hit the 16x or 17x levels - Agree with this too. I didn't get to Horntail until lv19x on my first character (Nightlord) after struggling to gather the HP for it. I even got to do Auf too
"Significant time investment" already comes in the form of the time taken to do the daily quest though, I don't think there's much point in limiting how early they want to do it, since it still requires the same amount of daily quests to get the required hp...? It is also slightly more difficult for a lower leveled character to finish the quests (since it's not as easy to get someone on the exact same quest to farm it for you), so by starting early instead of late they are actually putting in more effort than they need to. If you need a total of 100 day of hp quests to get your target hp by a certain level, whether you start at 120 or 150, there's no getting around that you still need 100 days of questing. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to start earlier so you can spread out those 100 days and be able to do a portion of it before you are 150.
this quest need remake on time needed per day to like 10-15min (when done with FTT/vip rocks ofc) 40min + FTT/vip rocks is allready way to much for 13 avg hp/day (people would rather farm other things like events or daily boss where by the time they get 150lvl you get min HP for zak/krex/cwk...) those are enough to build new char, start wash and join leech-mulestory even if this gets changed to 120+ people won't waste 40min,vip rocks
As you might already guess, I 100% support this suggestion. I'd like to point out that for an unfunded lvl 120 character, some of the hp questlines are HARD. Like, probably gonna take them 1+ hours. Considering that, I believe that in practice, worrying that the hp questline will replace washing altogether if it came a little earlier is a bit unrealistic (I mean, i don't think i saw a big fluctuation in APR price after the hp questline came into play). The speed in which you can gain HP when using traditional washing, and the ease of doing it if you have a way to make money [even something as accessible as APQ, CWKPQ, or low capital merching], puts the HP quest TO SHAME. Allowing lower lvls, be it lvl 120 or 130+, heck even 140, will help those who either reached 4th job and learnt too late about washing, or people who dislike the idea of having base int, and not being able to play their chara until 4th job. I honestly believe that its not economically sound for your avarage player to rely on the hp questline to reach hp goals. But it is a fair enough secondary path to be worthwhile for anyone who isn't interested in breaking their head over washing, or dislike the chase of collecting meso to make progress. Barring that solution from those who want it with a high lvl req that will inherently be harder to reach with the lack of HP, feels like wasted potential, and will ultimately just lead to frustration. Why should a lvl 120 player that discovered he can't do anything without washing keep playing to lvl 150, when he can recreate his character and bring it to lvl 120 with more HP in about the same speed? Or idk, quit playing lol.
I don't think that it would hurt to lower the level requirement down to 120. Due to the effort and time that it takes, it will never become an alternative to HP washing. With how it is right now, even if the level requirement was lowered, it will always be an inefficient, band-aid solution for those who missed out on the initial HP washing train. If this can mean the difference between someone potentially quitting the game and staying to play another day then I think it's something worth considering. Lowering the requirement will have very little to no negative effects on the game as a whole.
I think 120-125 req with a 4th job adv, unless beginner, is totally reasonable to maybe grind for 10-20 hp per day, if they even do it every day. The 150 prereq seems totally arbitrary imo, if there was some reason for this level, I'm all ears. I'm behind on a lot of things in royals (no internet atm) and not sure if the rewards for the quests have changed but I can't see any realistic player bank on advancing your character in such a significant amount of hp between 150-155, by gaining 10, 20 if you're lucky hp per 24 hours, if you are even able to every day, to bide your time to your hp goal. unless the hp quest update dropped in your lap at 150 or past 150. It is helpful and I'm glad it was created, but the 150 limiter makes it feel gamey. 120-135 can be somewhat slow, but not like 1-120, and 135 to 150 goes very fast, the 120-125 gate would not have any negative impact or the perceived nx/voting/washing gig market changing whatsoever, period, if it were dropped to 120-125. It would be like, at minimum, maybe 150+ *optional* hp gained by the time you would hit lvl150 If hackers are the worry, I really don't think hackers are washing their chars and won't be doing the hp quest either. They are making chars to be leech mules or to boost a char that doesn't need washed to 4th so they can gear them
Specifically @ your last paragraph: That literally is everyones experience who didn't wash. Not only due to hp, which unless you are a shad, it's impossible for a NL to get the needed hp in 15 levels, the main reason nobody runs at 155 is damage, not hp. Hb exists. Drk is not a popular HT recruit though. So this is reinforcement to lower the elixir quest. *Extremely* unlikely the reason a char isn't running at 155 is due to their hp, but their damage instead. If you're a sair or archer that isn't washed, you won't make it up in 15 levels, and even if you had the quest available at 120, and somehow have the hp to tank at 155, what person is funded enough to do enough damage at 155 but didn't wash??? and say they can, why are we gating them??? Fucking good for them. If they have no friends and made their char last week, well, that's not hard to figure out, not that many people in the HT circuit are complete strangers and randos with no guilds, friends, other chars or affiliations. Shouldn't be any harder to sus out than most of the hacker tracing already underway. And if they loot a sb, case closed, and easily mended.
You reminded me that staff already stated why they chose the lvl 150 cap This was taken from the monthly staff update post that came after the release of the hp quest. Just wanted to add this qoute into the conversation And to your question if the questline changed: they added 2 quests to the quest pool, one quest that gives 10 hp and one quest that gives 20 hp. So instead of 2/6 being a 20hp quest, its now 3/8. So the avarage hp per day rose from 13.33 hp/d to 13.75 hp/d. The addition itself was done mostly to add variety to quests, and less about increasing the hp gain per day (which i think is perfectly fine). Together with that, there was a tweak to the droprate of some annoying quests that brought them to be on par with the other quests.
Kind of bizarre if you ask me. Anyone who wants to hp wash can start at level one, play their three or more accounts to grind it or just buy leech/apr and can wash whenever they want, then dump 15b-20b on it (in just apr), but a normal player has to wait til 150 to begin adding 10-20 max hp per day, and staff is also assuming they also did most or everything else for hp It doesn't give off an alternative vibe if regular players need to wait to 150 to begin daily racking up hp. Its too close to the huge cliff face of hp req in the upper bossing arenas. Normal players that want to keep bossing or grinding would have to stall in there 15x for a long time, or just ignore content, which is what most people have to do and get hp from levels, then they just start another char. 120 is perfectly reasonable place to opt in the elixir quest. Its time consuming enough as is, it's unlikely everyone will do it ritually. I think royals fears this means the washing market dries up? It literally never will, even though it should and it's a ridiculous exploit. Ranged chars and mages still need so much more hp, and the 30k freaks too, mp goals etc. The daily quest is long term supplemental, it should be ok if this is how someone wants to eventually gain their hp goal, it's just as much server dedication and participation, and I'm sure they'll vote every day too. Anyway yeah I've changed my mind, 120-125 is more appropriate and less "gamed" feeling. The 150 req really makes it feel like royals would rather you go through the insane motions to wash and help "the economy" (make a bs, sell leech for months, pray you get lucky gach runs, pray gen20/30 and mw20 pass, gear up for 1hit leech, save up 15b for APR. Then leech yourself or buy leech to 120/135 and wash, or wash every level, and then gear your new char. Really fun game!) Otherwise you have to wait to 150 to begin a small daily supplemental quest that takes about 30 minutes each day and every butthole on the server slams *you* for wasting *your* time lmao
