Class/Skill Improved MM Feedback Thread!

I don't have much insight to give innovate ideas, but I really do think its an easy change that can help the class's performance, and an easy enough change that the Dev(s?) can implement without much work.
Tldr; thanks for saying you love this haha

Edit: Also if there is a fear of MM mules made just for snipe if the cd is decreased, just change the damage formula so it scales rather than having it be a flat amount.

 

Well I don't think that would actually be a problem, but I understand why it could seem that way. There are already MM SE mules, all it takes is 10 more levels to max snipe at 140. But the issue with that is that se/snipe mule is stealing a lot of exp, so I don't think people really want that lol, or would be cool with that, unless it was a weirdo solo artist that is trying to kill stuff faster for items, but they would lose a lot of exp, and their mule would gain a lot, and not need it.

Unless there's an aspect I'm missing I don't see it as a big deal, but I don't know alot about MC/muling/macro abuse

If anything, macros shouldn't work unless you're on that client

 

[added to the op]

2nd/3rd Job Distinction

Spoiler: sauce

This sounds like a nitpicky thing to bring up, but the conceit of wanting more class distinction is due to the fact that both classes are so extremely similar all the way to 4th job that even the different 3rd job names don't really make sense (a ranger doesn't burn things, a sniper doesn't freeze things, call me crazy but makes more sense to switch 3rd/4th job names, since the only convention separating them are essentially fire/ice in 3rd) . And in 4th job, one job obviously outclasses the other (bm>mm), which makes the lack of distinction frustrating, and an easy choice for players to ignore or wave away the xbow branch

Xbowman are slower attackers, (even in first job), iron arrow is very limited and outclassed compared to arrow bomb which can home/target, splash, and stun, and in 3rd job the classes are identical except for fire and ice. Sounds neat but Rangers can stun with bomb, which is the same as freeze, and inferno, ranger's fire attack, has a nice dot boost, and arrow rain has better vertical range, while they can still stun all over horizontally to compete. So the class points still favor to bowman for sure, from 1st to 4th, currently

Going off crossbowman's style through time, laying in wait, calculating, I think in 2nd job (or Sniper), reducing 10 points in Final Attack (from 30 to 20), and adding a 10 point skill that assassins also have:

[Endure]
Type: Passive
Description:
Additional recovery for both HP and MP even while hanging still on a rope or a ladder. The higher the level, the faster the recovery time, along with recovering additional amounts of both MP and HP.
Level 10 (max): Additional Recovery of HP +80, MP +30.
[note: this is weaker than max assassin/bandit/warrior Endure]

Or instead of Endure in 2nd,

[High Focus]
Pre-Requisite: Focus level 20
10 levels, replaces focus hotkey, +40 acc, +40 avoid at max.

Or possibly have Endure as a 3rd job skill (lowering thrust, or hawk levels) Or High Focus a 3rd job skill. Both could be implemented/switched, or just one or the other in either job.

As well as a few existing tweaks:

• making sniper's mortal blow a bit stronger than ranger's
• having sniper's summon attempt to attack the farthest mobs (better for full mob wrangling)
• while ranger's attempts to attack the nearest (better for stopping the closest mob from reaching you)
• different sprite for Sniper's puppet
• and the many suggestions posed for 4th job/endgame

Very minor changes and skills but both endure and/or high focus feel like very fitting/appropriate and minor tweaks to the overshadowed xbow class.
For such extremely similar classes, of which Bowman have all the favorable distinctions, early to end game, it's very easy to see why the MM population would be so low. The only real difference is weapon choice from 10-120, which is unfortunate, and after 120, the charts definitely favor BM, so it's a no brainer. Class color/distinction, as well as function, go a long way for the vitality and viability of a class (and the fun!). Indistinction is the primary reason for many of these MM threads and suggestions: MM being behind BM in charts, offering nothing different to the party that BM doesn't already. Fortunately 4th job is somewhat different in style, but BM is much easier, simpler, and stronger still. These aspects are important to compare and contrast for the class as a whole, and why all my suggestion are more than simply about damage boosts. Even if BM and MM did equal damage, people would still play BM more and the populations would stay the same because BM is easier/simpler and MM offers more difficult gameplay compared to BM, offers less to the party, and is weaker. Even just the blind buff would go long way for the class alone

 

73.3...

 

(heavy breathing)
its time to shake off the dust from my marksman

 

step in the right direction i think.

 

Very much so, I'm blown away.

Pierce I thought would take longer to rise to an update, extremely happy.

But Blind? My little baby I alone championed to the mockery of all?! Suggesting it even before that other server, and the same rates I suggested?The dev notes even using similar verbage to my many spiels (utility, aiding niche but very beneficial angles), I'm psyched, humbled

The soul arrow attack buff alone is a huge boost for MM.

Excellent stuff from the team, I'm very thankful some of my input helped the class, and thankful for all the MM here helping the discourse

 

Speaking from an hour grind with my MM, this is gamechanging stuff right there.
The class feels so much more "free" with the new charge mechanics. The fact that only MM got this capability also means they have one thing that's truly unique over their BM brethrens. This skill is used mainly for grinding, which got a spotlight now due to LHC. So MMs might finally find a place in this game instead of being a second rate SE mule.
Even with the change to blind, i still think it would be one of those skills you max very later on (accuracy debuff affecting a boss would not be very a easy thing to notice), but it finally has a use, so higher lvl MMs would still be able to find lvling up exciting!

The change to the arrows mean i'll need to do some cleaning up of my use tab tho LOL

 

How awesome would it be to make PA viable for ht though. Imagine a shad 4 part with pa… so poggers

 

Dang, I haven't really been playing Royals a lot lately, but I'm glad to finally see some of the changes they made here. Piercing Arrow midair is like a dream :3

The changes they did with Soul Arrow are also interesting, it seems that some people don't like it, but idk it seems fine to me from what I've tried. The +10 wep from the arrows though, is very nice though. It seems to me that with them getting rid of the alt-tab trick with Hurricane, Bowmasters and Marksman are probably on a pretty even playing field. It'll be interesting to see the damage comparisons between the two with the new changes.

 

I mean...for grinding and low lvl content might be, but blind thing is pretty OP in some bosses...Honestly as one of the biggest defenders of "theres always a difference between paper math to actual reality", I will not affirm that MMs are the best now, or theyre broken. But on paper blind does not sound good, it sound really OP, and dependant on how viable is to use PA in bosses(meaning on how often it can hit several parts of HT/ZAK for example due KB) doesnt seem "a bit more relevant" It actually seems top tier now to me....

 

really? am i misunderstanding the skill? i was sure that it lowered the accuracy stat of the enemy mob by 10%, and as far as i know, that does not translate to a 10% chance for the boss to miss. it will depend on the accuracy of the mob, its lvl, and your avoidability.
either way, i haven't seen it in action, so idk how big of a deal this is

 

erm, it seems that you missunderstood, Blind30 description is the following: "Level 30: MP -36, for 180 secs, with success rate 40%, enemy's accuracy decreases by 30% for 15 secs" -they didnt reduce the 30% lowered acc, they reduced the 40% chance to 10% in bosses.... it last 15 secs, so they real problem is to get the 1st blind..after that is pretty much perma blind on bosses(if the MM is not a mule ofc) 30% lower acc looks pretty much like shadower shadow shifter for everyone poggers:
EDIT. im aware that the miss chance depends on job/avoid /lvl etc...but common just to see it....30% is pretty big
EDIT2: Patch notes are pretty interpretative... but :
"This change grants active Marksmen a great utility tool for reducing the Accuracy of all monsters attacked. It helps not only the Marksman itself avoid taking damage more frequently, which helps their damage output, but it also benefits the entire party, and especially party members of other low-avoidability classes such as Corsair and Bowmaster. We have reduced the effectiveness of the skill to 10% when a boss monster is being attacked, which should help ensure that the Marksman has to play very actively to consistently add the debuff to the monster."
If the rate of getting blind is still 40% and the effect is 10% reduction, this statement does not make any sense.....

 

I see, i interpreted "effectiveness of the skill to 10%" as in the effect on bosses would be only 10%. If you are correct, 30% sounds pretty fucking legit
MM would suddenly be the best support for range comps, especially NL ones, because they already have a very high avoid (tho, melee classes could benefit a lot as well, shads and buccs in particular due to their high base avoids). This gives them an even bigger chance to not be touched, which increases their DPS greatly. But hmm, this would only work if you are fighting a single body boss. Getting the 10% chance on multiple bodyparts won't be very consistent. So it might be the most segnificant in auf haven or future PB?

 

I dont think anyone needs to worry about mm snipe mules. They will just be se mules lol

 

I would add pally witht their brand new shadow shifter, regardless on how slighty increases the MISS chance for them, they already have a 7.5% to get KB(almost on pair with NLs) so, just speaking of avoid KB, MMs could make pallys even "stancier" than shads/nls. In my eyes just the viability in auf/dunasv2 and zak bodies(add future PB and VL here) seems pretty neat, but now ill go back to my original statement, does blind work while using PA? that thing hits multiple parts..yeah it takes a while to charge and its single lined,KB can affect it, so it would hit less parts...maybe eruption? does forstspray affect this? Im not the biggest expert in MMs so i cant answer this...but with a bit of creativity, this skill alone can be a better buff that initially seemed to...isnt it?

 

Linking this radical thread by @Geyforlife

https://royals.ms/forum/threads/a-quick-look-at-mms-blind.194647/

Details the potential avoid assist max Blind grants you and your party. I'll be adding this link to the OP too while I make some other edits.

Because of the wonkiness of pierce at the time (no longer the case), and my boss-centric build, I still recommend maxing Blind ASAP, after MW10/20, which would be at around 153/156. Unless we see some numbers showing pierce absolutely destroying at LHC, I still recommend this because of the huge buff to Blind, if you plan on bossing a lot.

Love to hear any feedback about the 73.3 update (especially the less talked about buffs to puppet and FA)

 

Testing final attack requires SP resets, so not a lot of people in the server got a chance at it to even give an opinion.
Imho I was never a big fan of using puppet in grinding, so the change to their hp did not affect me all that much.

 

Not gonna read over 7+ pages of comprehensive MM discussion. All I have to say besides agreeing with what most of OP says and I add to my own:

1. Buff MM raw damage output, MM's Strafe shouldn't be 100% as that's basically their main DPS attack, it should make sense to buff it more than Snipe which has a 4sec cd, 150% Strafe on 3rd Job sounds OP af but as other MM mains have pointed out, their DPS fall back by a large margin the closer they get to Level 200 when compared to other classes. A way to implement this is to make Marksman Boost passively increase % on Strafe, so both Strafe 30 and MMB30 are required in order to maximize damage output, maxing MMB requires a MM to be at least 150+ if you first max out Sharp Eyes and Snipe which is the common build for MMs. MMB might as well increase the number of lines, levels 1-10 only increase % on Strafe but no line boost, levels 11-20 provides more % on Strafe and +1 line boost for a total of 5 arrows per Strafe, and levels 21-30 increases another line boost and more Strafe % for a total of 6 arrows per that deal 150% Strafe. If this sounds too OP, the % and number of lines per strafe or even attack speed can be adjusted so it closes the gap between MM and BM/Other jobs in term of dpm.

2. MM should get Concentrate, but Concentrate currently in its current state has no useful effect for them, so first Concentrate effect should be changed to fit more the role of MM. For example:
2.1. Concentrate adding +att and stackable with att pots (similar to Echo),
2.2. Concentrate giving them more vertical/horizontal knockback resistance (not to be confused with Power Stance), and lastly,
2.3. Concentrate giving a ridiculously high increase in avoid (something like +100~150avoid)
All this to compensate the fact Concentrate its a skill with 5 minute cooldown, lasts 180 seconds and archers have to deal with having low avoid while also needing to reposition constantly so this will greatly benefit them to achieve more stable dps on long boss expeditions.
2.4 Increase Concentrate duration from 180s to 240s or reducing cooldown from 5min to 4min, or both
Friendly reminder to fix Concentrate bug not being immune to dispel despite the skill icon staying after a succesful dispel

3. Buff Moltres/Articuno
Right now, I feel as if the legendary birds are useless in bossing, maybe doubling their attack speed for the whole duration of their summon time or increase their raw damage would make them more useful besides summoning them during periods of Cancel Weapon Attack. Last but not least, Give Phoenix DoT pls f4

 

I agree with the strafe change, using a third job skill as your main single target dps until 200 is kind of depressing. maybe starting off with a tame number tweak just to see how it impacts the class would be fine. Careful with the drastic change bec we still don't know how good or viable marksman would be compared to their bm counterpart come VL(there will be many other mechanics involved that mm may excel in). They also may be more desirable in a boss like pinkbean(if it ever comes) because for a bm... it's pretty impossible to survive a fraction of a second of DR with 8.3 arrows instances of damage a second