Economy End game content suggestion: Reverse equipment

You don't get reverse equipment by killing Pink Bean, you get Timeless equipment from Pink Bean. They're similar, but different items. Reverse is made with Pieces of Time, which can be gotten from basically any mob in ToT.

Unless they completely change how you get the item, you don't need to kill PB to get them.

 

Hot take: Crafting reverse items should require a 110 weapon, fully white scrolled, as a component, in addition to crafted 120 items being untradeable.

If 120 recipes require a perfect 110 item to craft, it doesn't matter if you're a newer player who just hit 160, or if you're 200 and farming end-game, both of you have incentive to continue running HT. If 120 recipes only require untradeable items, whether it's farming or boss drops, you essentially shift the end-game content to a new area and render the previous tier obsolete. Healthy end-game should be encouraging newer players to progress. If HT becomes a ghost town because all the end-game is focused on PB, that just seems like new shit but a different name.

If you currently own a 110 item with perfect stats, I think it's a very balanced trade-off to decide:
1. I can keep the 110 item and be able to sell it to other players, or
2. I can craft a 120 item but sacrifice any re-sale value.

An added bonus of requiring 110 as a component is that it keeps the economy healthy by removing a lot of existing items from circulation, which also reduces the prevalence of item sharing between accounts. Currently, 3 players could be juggling a single perfect end-game item, crafting a 120 item means only one character benefit, and removes one item from the supply pool, I think that's creating reasonable demand for new items.

Removing 110 items from the supply pool is a similar economic benefit to requiring AP resets for HP washing. You can't account share so new characters always remove mesos/NX/value from circulation in the form of HP washing. In the same vein, then, I think new 120 items should also be removing mesos/NX/value from circulation (in the form of perfectly white scrolled 110 items). This is strictly an economic assessment of HP washing, not one based on gameplay experience.

If it were up to me, a good balanced end-game should incorporate Zakum, Krexel, HT in a way that I would want to do them, whether I'm 135 or 180. Introducing new items, new bosses or whatever new content that doesn't properly build onto of existing content will always present the same problem: What's the next thing because I'm bored of the current thing. It's only a matter of time until 120 items get introduced, that power creep settles in, end-game is stagnant, and we're forced to ask when is empress being released? Plan accordingly.

 

rip all those ppl who 30% their weapons then

 

I agree, fully white scrolled seems a bit too much, for ppl whose weapon are not perfect as well, not sure where we should draw the line. Since dragon weapons only come from crafting, gacha or HT I think the drop rate is pretty low and it's good that way!

 

another thing to add, drks use ski so they get fked even if the the reverse weap is more stronger than skis

 

HT will never be a ghost town because it drops mw20 gen30 and tt30, along with an amazing pendant.
Also, no one kills ht just for getting the dragon weapons, people would kill it either way.
If you'll actually read my post, i never asked for PB to be in the game. My goal is bringing grinding back to the game, not another bossfest.
Your suggestion has a few problems:
1. It benefits only the min-maxers, making the content of reverse weapons a luxery only for the rich, which totally defeats the goal of my post to include all lvls of play into grinding.
2. Not all classes have a dragon weapon as the perfect weapon, most heros would be fine with using perf ST until the end and never getting a claymore. DK only uses ski.
3. It takes out the element of crafting and scrolling if you can trade in your perfect weapon for a better weapon.
4. It destroys my goal of having the 10% to increase a skill completely because you'll need on avarage 10 perfect dragon weapons to have a fair chance at getting a skill point.
5. its not nostalgic
6. Metas need to be shaken. Dw i dont think perfect items would ever lose their value. The amount of grinding you'll need to craft a single weapon, only to discover it gives shit attack, means that it will take more effort to get a good weapon to 10%ws than getting a perfect dragon weapon. And if they aren't tradeable, all that happened from that weapon being made is you losing only one potential buyer, not another weapon to compete.

In conclusion: don't be so defensive against the meta changing. We need to do something before this game goes stale, and your suggestion just gives funded players their easy trade up to gain more attack, without actually encouraging any grinding in the process. Its very clear who'd benefit from this sort of update and who would never even get to interact with said update.

 

Excellent idea as long as everything is 100% untradeable. And what I mean by 100% is that the piece of time doesn't drop if you didn't deal the highest damage to the monster. Everything grindable in this game revolves around mages. Don't ever let it happen in ToT.

 

Personally, I think pink bean will be released this year.

- Matt said in his question and answer section that after completing the 100% autoban pink Bean will be launched.

- No gm will talk about the estimated date of pink bean or the% that the autoban carries, since this can affect many users in economy ...

for example: A dragon shiner bow 145 wp att is worth between 30 -35B ... if they announced the date, these weapons would hopefully be worth less than half this price .. (my opinion)

It is simply waiting to have the anti ban working at 100% and to have a clean server !

my prediction is this year is from pink bean

 

• Allow them to be craftable through self farming, ironman/autonomous/everyone friendly requirements, but still costly
• Keep them untradeable.
• Don't give them any slots.
• Don't give them skill points, but the level up mech is in place, but altered.
• If you're lucky, they will be comparable to current end game weapons. If extremely lucky, slightly better
• Can only possess one of each equip at a time, like a zak helm, can not be stored in storage. No required crafting items are tradeable either
• Crafting items have level requirements, can't be looted unless you're of a high enough level.
• Change the crafting items/equip level req, and the level to craft and eq them to 160 or higher, (170, 175, 180 even)
• Have them consume pieces of time (or cost mesos to be repaired to full att) to balance the economy sink vs not buying/scrolling alternate end gear

This way, they can be side by side acquired/leveled with current end game weapon. If you're very lucky, you get a slightly better weapon/set. If not, it has zero impact on the market at all and you have to try again

I'm 50/50 on the skill point mechanic, it seems like too much gambling on top of the also gamble of stat growth. If the time and resource requirement is too much for these, it will cause extreme burnout and be obnoxious, especially considering the sudden competition for ToT maps they will cause. It is also a transparent NX sink, because of 4th job sp resets, it will fug up builds, rarely will this perk help someone, especially by the time you are able to farm or craft these items.

Also I think as for PBs timeless set remove them altogether, that's too much to ask of a player. Just give pb other drops of value. Merge reverse/timeless I to one set of gear, call them the endless, ageless, or infinite or royal set, etc. Or just timeless, but I think this is the best way for the server to reinterpret this.

Asking a player to beat pb, which has never been done, decide who gets the one item to craft a timeless weapon, then gamble trying to scroll and level it up is just absurd convolution

 

Yea, since i made the op, my opinion regarding the skill up mechanic changed. i learnt about it not giving points to maxed out skills, so i saw how worthless it is when the equip boost a level in your main skills that were already maxed (cause gaining the weapon will be an endgame achievement)
So regarding that, im not sure if its even worth the time to implement (assuming its not already there, who knows).

End game weapons that top the current ones, still need some jump in difficulty of making and maxing out to avoid a rapid power creep. The weapon level up is that extra layer of rng you need to deal with.

In the main post i avoided talking about pink bean because i didn't know if it would even come. So i just suggested reverse weapons to be released seperately

 

I also preemptively tried to avoid involving pb, and altogether forgoing it if we head in that direction.
The thing about them being totally untradeable is a much broader reaching concept than people realize. You don't benefit at all economically, and neither does anyone else. So it's not just a net neutral, it can be seen as a net negative because you lose time and resources making it, as well as remaking them trying.
Say an a unfunded person gets really lucky. Ok, so what, that's the same as an unfunded person yolo scrolling (or getting super lucky at gach, maple is a lottery economy) except then they can't sell or trade that same godly item to anyone or themselves. It keeps the 110 weapon/current end game intact, and likely makes them more valuable actually, especially if the 120 set changes to a much higher level, like 175/180. Players still make money gaching/looting/scrolling current end game gear, and is massively refreshing the economy from 110-180. The economy is only reinforced, it's not dropped or changed at all, and could increase the value of the 110 weapons because the timeless weapons are untradeable sinks and aren't guaranteed to be better.

If the new weapons and their required items are tradeable, it will seriously disrupt the economy. Them being naturally untradeable is brilliant and also fits with their personality to you (their level and growth etc)

Just some more food for thought

Also, they should require unique items from all over, still untradeable or unlootable/unstoreable, and require a level minimum to loot, but still be possible for ironman or regular players to loot.

Such as needing to finish the final quest in TOT before they will drop, really difficult quest (Make masks untradeable too), then pieces of time can drop from all high level monsters, otherwise ToT will be packed and farmed out

 

Some things to think about when I played in another server and Maker and Reverse/Timeless were implemented

For reference: the cost of a clean Reverse Item was about 200-250mil( which is a lot), a Reverse with +2 attack from clean was worth about 300mil, +5 worth about 500, +7 or +8 nearly a bil, and a perfect +11 was 1.5 - 2b

The bulk of the cost of crafting Reverse/Timeless was in its gems, not the pieces of time.
An Advanced Diamond, which was +3 attack, was worth 100m.
Advanced Black Crystal, which was anywhere from -3 to +3 attack, was worth 100m.
Advanced Str/Dex/Luk Crystals which gave +5 of its stat was worth about 50m each.
(Stimulators ensured that the item could not be crafted below average and guaranteed 0 to +5 attack)

The pieces of time were actually only 600k each, because drop rate increased. It was actually the Advanced Monster Crystals that were much more valuable, where you needed 100 of a material to make one crystal. You need to kill lvl 130 monsters in the temple of time to make the last Advanced Monster Crystal, and for the second to last advanced monster crystal, only one of the mobs in Skeles dropped old neck bones, and they were the only mob worth killing to get that advanced monster crystal.

With all these factors being included, this was not the most optimal money making strategy for mages, as Bishops can not 1 shot the ToT monsters because they arent undead, and only one kind of arch mage can. It was, however, very possible and very profitable for warrior classes to farm, gamble and craft a Reverse item worth selling for a lot. A warrior could farm for approximately an hour at Oblivion 1, get all their AMC3 (Advanced Mosnter crystal 3), looted about 27-30 PoT, they could buy AMC2 from the market, settle for Intermediate gems, and produce a decent weapon.

With the implementation of Reverse, its imrpotant to take into account how exactly it can be crafted, because Maker Skill is not a thing in Royals. It is not necessary to make the Piece of Time the most important material, and I honestly think its better if the major roadblock behind crafting a Reverse isnt Piece of Time.

Theoretically speaking, you could get up to +11 attack on a Reverse if youre super lucky with your stimulator and your gems, and an additional 6 attack from perfect levels. A perfect Reverse Alchupiz for reference (112 base) could be 129 attack before scrolled, but this was very very very rare. Most Reverse Alchupizes after scrolling and levels ended in the 130-140 attack range, with anything over 140 being very very impressive and lucky. With 7 slots, a perfect scrolled Alchupiz was 164 Attack.

(The outcome of a perfect +11 from crafting and +6 from levels is a (stimulator destruction chance) 0.9 x (stimulator rolls) 0.166 x (black crystal rolls) 0.142 = 0.02) x (level up rolls) 0.036 = 0.00077. In other words a perfect +17 base Reverse is literally nearly impossible

As far as I know, the Godly System can add up to 10 attack on a clean weapon. A Dragon Faltizan can go as high as 117 attack clean. Perfected, it would be 152.

Therefore, too prevent power creeping, you could implement Vicious Hammers, which increase the max slots you can scroll an item, but only have it work on non reverse gear (and not Skis). Therefore, a perfect Faltizan in Royals could then become 162, and for those with a perfect Falitzan already, will hardly be outclassed by Reverse. But a Reverse requires a lot more luck to reach 164 attack.

So is this redundant? No. In this scenario, a 130-140 attack Reverse Alchupiz is not difficult to achieve. But a 130-140 attack Faltizan is much harder to achieve because that requires perfect scrolling.

In a scenario where the same rolls as Maker are involved in crafting, youd have an increase in weapons that have an estimate of +18 to 25 attack from base lvl 120 weapon attack, but still retains a very very small number of perfected items, of which this prevents power creeping. So theoretically, you have more Drks running around with 130-140 attack Reverse Alchupizes, but the number of Drks with Alchupizes as good as perfect hammered Faltizans is super super super tiny, and a super super rich person would have better chances of getting Godly +10 Faltizan and perfect scrolling it than trying to get a perfect Alchupiz and perfect scrolling that.

TLR, my suggestion would be to add a Maker-like system for crafting Reverse, and implement Vicious Hammers only for non-Reverse items. This would add an additional layer of content and progression, increase the strength of the overall playerbase, but does not powercreep already perfected equipment

How does Timeless and Pink Bean factor into all this?
It doesn't. Playerbase is not strong enough to finish Pink Bean within a 2 hour time limit. Pink Bean drops Rocks of Time which are used to craft Timeless, as well as Timeless weapons, but these weapons do not adhere to the Maker rolls and so aren't even that good.

 

Which boss drops rune scimitar?

 

how to seamlessly implement r/timeless gear with no economic impact but still feel progressive, and be vital to the end game:

• reverse weapons are craftable after a certain level (180, etc, tbd). they are composed of untradable etc drops. pieces of time, untradable, and drops from all major bosses, also untradable. it is important these items have to be self farmed, and are untradable.
• only reverse or timeless weapons can damage PB, and do no, or 1 damage, to all other monsters
• PB drops timeless weapons, which are an upgrade to the reverse and will help you take out PB faster.

the advantages are, the dragon weapon market is unaffected. there is also no market because of the untradable items. players looking ahead will nab the necessary major boss etc drops for their reverse gear during their journey to 180, etc. the only market impact will be to sell these etc, like sb selling.

this would also be a great opportunity to release the magic anvil. folks will want to flaunt their r/timeless gear.

since r/t gear will have no/very low econ impact, I think an npc that charges them or hones them, each time you battle pb, as a meso sink, is a decent idea

discussing scrolling or leveling r/t gear, or how they will get stronger, i think their level system is good. its random but somewhat reliable. add a few more levels for extra stat gain. since its rng, it will keep folks wanting to keep trying for them.

just some food for thought. i think its pretty stable, withholds power creep, doesn't destroy or upend current gear meta or economy, and can exist peacefully inside it, while still being an important stepping stone in the game