Hi Tim, thanks for the really long post you made. Just want to know how you got your numbers for Buccaneer DPS because my numbers are still different. Before the patch the DPS numbers for me (with Sharp Eyes) was: 1v1: Barrage + DS: 1251.31% Barrage + 2x Energy Blast: 1256.30% (must not be transformed, transforms makes Blasts slower!) Demolition: 1439.32% Barrage + Demo: 1462.19% Barrage+Demo was only 1.59% stronger with SE in theory but the increase iframes made it better to use to dodge more attacks (assuming you can reach your target with Barrage). Demolition only was used for top zak arms or certain parts of HT. Barrage+DS was used when Super transform was in cooldown. During start of Zak arms I actually did Barrage+DS, and Dragon Strike 2X Energy Blast (no transform) when I had Energy charged up as it did more damage however more risk involved from having no iframes. New patch DPS numbers for me (with Sharp Eyes) is: 1v1: Barrage + DS: 1659.55% Demolition: 1781.20% Barrage + Demo: 1909.95% With the new patch, Barrage+Demolition, not Dragon Strike, is superior for 1v1. It is 7.23% stronger with Sharp Eyes (6.23% without) than using demolition by itself. Now without the cooldown for Super Transformation, for 1v1 bossing Barrage + Dragon Strike is weaker than Demolition and Barrage + Demo. However people forget that as soon as Dragon Strike can hit 2 targets, that Barrage+DS becomes useful again. 1v2: Barrage+Dragon Strike: 2004.49% This combo becomes 4.95% stronger than Barrage + Demo, the gap would have actually widened if there's less of a recast delay for Barrage. (After Barrage+Dragon Strike is performed, you are idle/waiting for 90-100ms) So there are some parts where I agree with disagree with people overall in this thread. On one hand, people saying demo2win is mostly wrong. I've seen really funded/washed but uninformed buccs spam demolition before the patch during zak arms, those people will continue to be uninformed. You can still use corkscrew/Backspin blow to reposition and gather iframes as needed with this patch. Barrage+Demolition was better than demo only before and after the patch, nothing has changed on that end. On the other hand, having no restriction except using a magic rock on both transformation feels really off and gimmicky to me. Even if the Royals staff wants to remove the old restriction for cooldown on transform, I feel like they could have implemented it in a way that feels more fun/exciting. Example: The more you attack during transform the longer it stays up (and whenever transform wears off, give it a bit of a cooldown until you can use it again (eg: Lvl 1 68 seconds, lvl 20 30 seconds). Or a system that's similar to Corsair's Battleship where transform stays up longer if you don't get hit. These are just 2 quickly thought out examples but I'm sure the staff can think of something better, something that they can feasibly get to work on the game rather than what it is right now. And for me personally I do like to use Barrage+DS on 1v1 sometimes, but maybe for half the time for bossing without having any control over it was a bit too much time spent using that combo (a personal aside). Lastly, regular transformation was indeed useless even as a Marauder, as Energy Blast with no transform was so much faster (therefore stronger DPS overall). Energy blast is so underrated that I'd still use it sometimes when the situation calls for it. I also think that Energy Orb and snatch needs some buffs to make it at least situationally useful. (Energy orbs cuts damage in half per bounce, Snatch seems a bit too weak for a skill that must be used in transform) So yeah, Tim if you can please check numbers for Barrage+Demolition, not Barrage+ Dragon Strike. Edit: People always assume + calculate Night lords with Sharp Eyes, so I decided to do that here as well.
As a 14X bucc main this change overturned the entire reason for me playing a bucc in the first place - the need to use a myriad of skills and the barrage+DS combo. I'm not saying that the change is bad. In fact, it is better for a more convenient and easier playstyle. It is just demoralizing that the entire reason that I played bucc was made completely obsolete. The change may be appealing to many, but in my case, I am quitting due to these new changes. I came to play the OG pre-bigbang buccaneer, not a steroid-supersaiyan-private server altered buccaneer. Some may argue "you can still use barrage+DS!" The point is, why should I? Instead of a mere 7% higher damage than demolition, I could hold down 1 button and chill. The cost to benefit is not there anymore. If I wanted a much easier, not challenging, perma-transform playstyle, I would've just played another post-bigbang private server. I just find it ironic that the whole purpose of this server - to maintain "pre-bigbang, original maple qualities" has been changing. If we made these changes that make buccs different but not disrupt balance between classes, why can't we also introduce cygnus knights? Because it would detract from the original pre-bigbang maple this server represents . Meanwhile, the changes just detracted from the original bucc that I, along with many, came to this server for.
Your right winwinjelly. I were thinking about Quitting too.. Because it change more as a nonbuccaneer could understand. It change the reason why many buccs play a bucc. Another point is that all buccs would be fine with just a damagebuff without any infinity transform. My main reason is still: we wouldnt discuss anything when the transformchange wouldnt happen. No one would cry everyone would be fine. Maybe there were a few people who still agument that they want infinity stance by consequent attacking monsters, what would make 1000% more sense as everything else to deal more damage and have a really highrated better gameplay! That was wished by most of bucc users before patch and is still one of the biggest wishes we have. Dot and, greetings Mia
Who are the people "who wished for infinite stance for bucc" ? It is illogical to have have infinite stance on a bucc If your argument is that bucc keeps falling down in HT, Mage/Archers/Sair/Thieves fall down too if the avoid doesn't trigger. Should they all have stance too along with bucc? Not to mention that bucc have their on 90% stance when energy is full while [Mage/Archers/Sair/Thieves] do not have any. Erm, no as mentioned above. I suggest you scrutinize Tim's reply on the decision to have transform with no CD Barrage+DS is still relevant depending on the type of boss/mob faced, Demo does not replace Barrage+DS Demo wasn't overly buffed to the point that barrage+DS became obsolete [damage-wise] Bucc players have now have a choice to choose either combo when going against the boss/mob they are fighting. If you are really uptight about the CD, you could still use a timer for a "CD" for the skill and use it when the "CD" is up since barrage+DS damage is not too far from from Demo depending on boss/mob faced. You get the best of both worlds. As you said it yourself, you have the choice to "hold down 1 button and chill" or "still use barrage+DS!" for optimal damage. Am i right to say that it is better that the current bucc change gives you this choice? I am not sure where your "most of bucc users" wish for infinite stance are coming from. However, you have the option to play different class as most/all of them are pretty decent now and has it's own playstyle. I noted that you mention stance often, you could give hero/drk/pally a shot esp pally since it got a nice buff. Perhaps 1 day you see another fellow bucc playing between different combo of attack in different bosses/stage and you found love for bucc on new perspective, you can always play back your bucc.
You are both right. First of all, Privateer you have to change some infos on you Buccaneerguide I liked to read it and would like it, if you update your guide with the new Patchnotes <3 EDIT:"I will give it an update when I got the time. I can't promise when and will need some time to check everything too ^_^" Nevermind, thank you <3 Btw. you opened my eyes of an other point of view, with your comment : "Barrage+DS can be the main source of damage but when you NEED the extra range, you have the option to gain extra range and sacrifice a bit of damage" Demolution when we need extra range, with a sacrifice of damage. Instead of using Demolution as a damagepeak ! Thanks for that, i really agree with the idea ! In that way i would be fine with a nocooldown Supertransformation! It would really make sense.
As a bucc Player for a Long time, i really like and enjoy the patch. Stop flaming with "we now spam demo" and "no unique anymore" mi mi mi mi… As buccs we had the Problem, that weve done really low dmg especially on bosses. Everytime some1 was Recruiting for zak runs or krex and i whisp. the Person to add me, they asked "can u apple" or "no ty i prefer NL bla bla..". Before the patch i felt like a Buff-bitch (sry no bad Intention) and more like a Clown dancing somewhere doing Little less dmg and really of no use. After the patch i feel more like i am used, since i have two usefull Party buffs (SI and TL) AND i do good amount of dps, so i can help take down bosses. Besides of that i dont feel like a NL only spamming one skill. I use Barrage+DS Combo, which has more dmg Output than Demo, and the Transformation which is a self-haste and is Pretty usefull when knocked back to walk back (and Looks so awesome and unique). Demo i use for range attacks while loosing a Little dps. In Conclusion i have a more variability in skills. We are now a close Combat - Mid range Unit. Our Energy charge feels smooth too. When charged i dont get knocked back and have my own stance (and it charges very fast with Barrage DS Combo on bosses). In my opinion the patch is really good and balanced (therefor really thanks to the staff)... Buccs are still not OP and still dont do highest amount of DPS, which nobody wanted ofcourse, but before the patch we were really really low on DPS and now we are stable while still being unique in how many skills we can use AND HAVE TO USE IN DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.
How cant you find partys ? Many people use that agument... Are your damageranges 3k only? I havent any problems to find a party because i have a guild with active guildmates Yea right now i am fine with that patch too. Spreset should have happen... But i dont mind much anymore since i just level and level to get those sppoints Barrage seems to strong since i could hit maxdamage without crit I guess barrage plus demo is now the stronges combo. Whatever pls dont nerf buccs... Finally we deal damage
I can find parties, ofcourse with Guild members and so on but it was harder/more tough before the patch (still not every1 knows that we got more dps, still many People avoid to add us buccs). I agree finally we got more dmg and its fine how it is now. Dont get me wrong i played many classes and the reason why i like buccs the most is that you have to Combine different skills and have the variability of many skills, but we lacked the DPS hard. And after the patch i dont feel like that i have lost this. I still Combine skills instead of spamming one and still have to use skillpoints in more then one skill. ALL in ALL NICE JOB DONE.
How balance conversations look like in the bucc thread: Person A: >Makes reasonable claims backed by logic and calculations Person B: >Respectfully explains his point of view on the point and his personal opinion Meanwhile in any balance conversation about NLs: Person A: "NLS ARE BROKEN AS FUCK, PLZ REMOVE SHADOW PARTNER AND ALCHEMIST" Person B: "NLS NEED SE TO DO GOOD DAMAGE SO WE DONT DESERVE NERFS" Person A: "REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" Person B: "REEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" Man I don't even play bucc but i still enjoy reading this post
Forgive me if i didnt read a post/ reply, theres a lot to go through: My main question is why the buff from energy still isn't stackable? (Also why don't we get an attack buff from transform?)
I don't know about your first question but as for the second one - That transformation attack buff never came until Big Bang (v93), I'm pretty sure. On the other hand I would love to have that transformation attack boost again lol
Transformation doesn't need an attack boost, but imo it does need some incentive to level it beyond 11 than 1 defense per level.
Hmmm, always thought trans had attack. Guess i remembered wrong Yea, st really isnt a useful skill outside of using it for demolition imo. I'm not sure of the exact speed/jump buffs it gives, but its still pretty underwhelming aside from looking awesome. I understand that you get the movement buff for bossing, but its still not really useful. And outside combat you could just use a mount instead (saving a magic rock). Aside from the extra 60 seconds, theres no point in leveling it up (especially past level 11 i think it was).
Yea! Per level 10 sek duration or something. That would be a "nerf" since level 1 would be just 10 sek but thats would be fine and would make skilling more usefull and fun The def is nice but not much worthy to use sp points.. On the other point yea the movementspeed is just haste and in most cases useless since mount gives more speed, i agree.
I don't think starting st at 10 seconds is a good idea. I'm actually ok with how it is now, but again theres not too much of a point in putting sp in it. Getting super transform to level 11 in my opinion would be a late game thing. Personally i would keep it at 1 and put the other sp into other skills (barrage, demolition, dragon strike, mw). Since magic rocks are cheap (7-8k each) i don't mind spending the mesos to transform every minute while leveling my other skills for damage.
Didnt know there was such an issue on editing. This changes alot of things I died at this HAHA YESSSS. I still dont understand why the damage is cut. It made grinding less fun as I thought I could cycle between DS and energy orb. but orb is just so weak with its dmg being reduced
Now that i've made, and played quite a lot of bucc, i think i can join in on talking about the changes. Maybe its because i haven't played bucc before the update, but I'm really enjoing having the freedom to either Demo spam, demo barrage or use DS barrage, as either have their own place and time to be useful. But i think there was enough conversation on the 4th job changes that i don't have much to add in that regard. So I'll give my insight to the changes done to the 3rd job with the perma transform: I played as an ironman bucc, so i didn't leech through the 3rd job, i trained from start to finish. Tbh, once i reached 3rd job, i was pretty burned out of using sommersault all the time, so the thought of being able to use another skill drove me into trying shockwave. Because i was playing as ironman, i had the problem of having to farm the crystals for alcaster's questline on my own, so i only ended up finishing that quest on lvl 80 lol. So, i started using shockwave from lvl 80, and had a blast, while it is a far more cumbersome skill than sommersault and evergy blast, it was very useful in a lot of maps, and the biggest part that made shockwave good for me, is the fact that you get to use it right when you hit 3rd job [if you are not an ironman lol], compared to the energy blast skill that needs to have 40 points in energy charge, and 30 in energy blast to reach its full potential, and the skill isn't actually available 100% of your training time. Once i reached the lvl where i maxed both of them, energy blast became a supporting skill that i used when bubble was on, and shockwave was used in the bubble downtime. This change lead to a really fun early 3rd job experience for me. I kinda wish that shockwave wasn't so awkward of a skill, but its such a strong skill that it deserves the limitations imposed on it (shockwave stops at any incline or decline in the terrarin, meaning it is only effective at flat maps, the skill is also very slow, meaning you don't have a lot of control over your character)
