Long story short, couldn’t find any details about how good it actually is on cutting down time when dealing with bosses with pesky weapon cancel. Any info is fine, just would like to know more about the thoughts on Total Crash being a utility skill, how good it actually is, is it worth bringing a crash mule, the maths (if it’s even possible or simply based on experience), interesting details, where to stand when casting to be efficient, all that jazz. Currently playing a pally and would love to know the effectiveness of Total Crash and how relevant is it to have parties thinking “let’s get a pally on board” or perhaps it’s not even that big of a deal (4mins cd, can’t cancel def buff constantly unlike Hero/DK). Thanks in advance!
The math inherently is a bit fuzzy because it includes the RNG of bosses. You first need to collect data on how often a certain boss uses WC and for how long. Check how long your avarage run is. Now check on avarage how many WCs you can cancel in a run in consideration of its CD. Now you can simply subtract (the length of a single WC) X (how many WCs fit in that timefame.) The time difference you'll get is in an ideal world, but normally WC casting is slightly random, and sometimes when you crash, wc comes back slightly faster. But this should give you a good idea. I say that the usefulness of crash varries GREATLY between bosses, and the variance increases the shorter the run is.
These are good points. Simple but I also realized that the longer the boss run = more chances to cast TC = effectiveness of TC increases. The part about WC coming back faster after TC sounds quite counterproductive, not sure if it’s intended or how often it occurs though At this stage I’m just trying to gather feedback on TC and any interesting tidbits on it. Crash mules have become quite frequently mentioned and created but I really haven’t seen anything much discussed about it. Perhaps Help/advice section is not a good start since it’s actually a general discussion. @Evan if it’s alright can we switch it there instead so we can get the ball rolling, thanks!
some back of the envelope calculations for a ht run: Let's first try to estimate how many TCs are used in a run. prehead 1 - 2 TCs prehead 2 - 2 TCs Main body runs are usually 40-45mins? - you probably start using TC after legs, tail dies, so maybe about +10mins into the main body run - that leaves 30-35min - assuming the last 10mins are for left/right arm, that means 20-25mins on heads A/B/C - if you use TC every 5 mins on average, then that is 5 TCs*. So that is 9 TCs in total in a ~60-65 min ht run. Let's say each TC gives 15 seconds of 'free' damage. So that's 135 seconds of 'free' damage. Let's say the team total dps is 1m/second. That's 135m damage attributed to TC. 135m / 65mins = 34,615 dmg/ second this is actually insane and puts paladin on the same level as nl. but all these numbers are pretty random, but maybe you can adjust these numbers to what you think is more accurate. * these TCs only provide free damage if both B and C or A and B use WC at the same time. if we assume that those TCs are not effective, then paladin provides 4 TCs for a 60-65min run. 60m/65 mins = 15,384 dmg/second; which is still respectable
In body when you have weapon cancel you can just hit another part usually so it isn't that effective. It's only really good at preheads or when you have a lot of warriors that made the arm hp low already
In main body able to gain more control allows the run to go way faster and smoothly. I’m sure we’ve been into runs together where arms are both in Warning and we’re just sitting ducks waiting for Head C’s Weapon Cancel duration to be up. Wasting that much time.
Zakum: Very effective. Best if you have least 2 crashes. Krexel: LUL might as well just rebuff during the cancel. HT: Very good preheads, less effective in body but it's party dependent. It's very good to have crash if two heads decide to sync their weapon cancel or your warrior is strong, otherwise it's optional in body. Scarlion: Good to have but the boss itself is easy so having crash only make it even easier. No data on Targa because fuck Targa.
Sorry, the part on HT not sure if I understood it correctly. So it’s not as useful if the warrior is not so strong, because they are not strong enough to trigger the arm warnings, and thus TC is optional since they can go down and hit the arms/wings. However a strong warrior would trigger it much earlier and when the heads weap cancel (1 or both), they would just be sitting ducks for the duration like what Jooon has mentioned. But in times where both heads don’t sync, the warriors can just hit the other heads anyways. (So in the end how useful is TC really? LOL) Off topic note: I foresee that a run where the only warrior is paladin would mean the warriors can’t dispel the def up buff on the heads. Is it a norm that the bs dispel it now (so it’s not really an issue unless bs is multi clienting perhaps)
I clearly remember there was an update note saying the bishop dispel working on bosses got fixed. Technically, it should be considered a glitch (abuse).
It's really situational in body. TC is like condom, you don't really need it 24/7 but it is convenient to have when the situation requires it. In most cases it's not a necessity skill like SE or HS, but it definitely make run rather smoother because, from my experience, having 2-3 TC in HT body means your entire team, barring the warrior who usually solo right side, can focus on Head A before moving on to the Head B. It makes the run more systematical and less messy. Also, bishop by right should be dispelling wdef if there isn't any available warrior to do so. It should be the norm but unfortunately not many bishops do that from what I see. edit: @sparky95 link pls
I do remember seeing that it should’ve been fixed. But its so widely known, and lets be honest, its not as easy to be performed by unwashed or inexperienced bishops, where player risks dispelled and touching HT’s body parts. Bishops will require a certain amount of practice before making it work, to a certain extend, effectively. My opinion on this Dispel skill Makes it quite an very interesting mechanic to be practiced, making a player better, or “special/unique” from the others. Its probably unique to our Server and should not adjusted. (if this is actually not intended like telecast) ——— Back to main topic, Crash Skill itself in Horntail is actually very significant. Faster Preheads imo is just a small part of how TC is effective. Able to target head constantly without much movement is pretty insane, lowering the duration of dispel suffered when killing B, Debuffs requiring when moving right to kill C Or the overall comfortable run of killing A>B>C completely from the left side. All these are placed into how much more flexible a Crash mule can change and improve a Horntail run. Spoiler: HT Melee w/ crash technique This is usually an technique that is used for speed runs with mutliple crash mules. Usually 2~3. I’m gonna remention something i commented above meanwhile. When being in runs where the melee split to hit multiple targets. I’m sure many have experienced Head C is on blues/C1/C2 and both arms are already on seduce warning. Forcing players to either rush arm or wait for weapon cancel to end. Making hero/dk/shad that unpopular in Horntail. But if these multiple Crash mule is in the picture, a average party would constantly be on heads, then to take down Head A and B only then, Right arm goes into 2nd warning The melee will rotate to the healthy left arm. Where the rest of the range hits Head C from the left. (And yes you can crash head C from left) On top of that, Melee will be constantly attacking wings immediately after split since NLs will always be on heads. Improving that much more efficiency for the melee class. If you continue adding on a Dispelling heads + Gen Spam supportive dps Bishop. It won’t be suprising to see a 38min main body run with this lineup honestly just by Maximising the melee’s class potential. TLDR: Crash mules in Horntail makes the run so much more flexible. Improving the run overall speed,efficiency and of course comfort from dispel/debuffs.
The ability to dispel weapon attack up and magic attack up was removed from priests dispel in update 50, not weapon def up and magic def up.
