Hey Evan, what's your opinion on the MM changes that will come to the next update? From a glance it looks like a huge buff to me, maybe enough to push BM out of the way for more budget build MMs. But I have 0 experience with MMs so I'd love to hear from you what you think it will do to this job in the long run.
I'm waiting till 54 drops to update the guide Don't want to give anything away (even if you can see stuff in Joel's video). I already have stuff written up though, and I'll add your post to the FAQ with an answer when I do!
On snother server someone did an amazing guide for MM. And one of my favorite parts of that guide was the actual breakdown of DPS for both classes that allows for actually calculating the breaking point for when BM becomes stronger than an MM from pure damage per arrow. The reason I specifically recalled that one, is because on that server as well, the cooldown of snipe is 4 seconds, which means that the only difference between his calculation and our future reality is the 125% multiplier for strafe (which is practically another arrow per sec in his calculations). I will need to do another read of his complicated calculation, but holy crap just looking at strafe alone is shocking for me, if i understand correctly that each one of the four arrows gets a 1.25x multiplier, and that i can practically count it as a 5th arrow if i add those added damages. Then with a normal speed xbow, which lets you cast strafe with a 720ms delay (boost included), then your arrows per min to 416 arrows per min from 333 arrows per min (in comparison to 500 arrows per min of hurricane). Now, using that, and using his definition of a combo as 5 strafes and one snipe (which takes 5040ms, so 11.9 combos per min), in a minute you will be able to dish out 11 snipes and 71 strafes, which is 11 snipes and 355 arrows (up from 284). So, if 11 snipes have to cover for 145 arrows (500-355) to match a BM, a single snipe has to cover for 13.2 arrows. (revisit the forum post to see how he arived to this formula) 195000 = 13.2 * (2.32 * x) x= 6,367 As the forum post states, this is the damage non crit hurrican needs to hit on avarage in order to be up to par with MM that has the same equipment, thats not an easy range to hit, but on actual boss fights people use stoppers and apples, which should bring most avarage BMs above MMs combo damage on the long run. I wanted to call the calculation off because this post is getting long, but i feel like not mentioning SI doesn't give this one justice. TL; DR of the post for what changes with SI being active: The new combo now is snipe + 7 strafes, which takes 4960ms That means we can fit 12 snipes and 84 strafes in a minute (420 arrows from strafe) This means 12 snipes has to make up for the damage of only 80 arrows, or 1 snipe makes up for 6.67 arrows Lets bring it into the formula again: 195000 = 6.67 * (2.32 * x) x= 12,601 oh, my, fucking, god. So unless your BM does more than avarage 12.6k damage with noncrit hurricane when you use your stopper/apple, then for the same investment an MM beats you. Everything below it and MM stumps BMs so hard its not even funny. So i guess my guess wasn't so far off, budget MMs are STRONG. They don't scale as well as BM (especially without SI), but they have a far higher starting point of damage, and SI became amazing. I would be interested to see what it does to the meta, but when I think about it, its NL meta, unless the MM changes + SI are actually good enough for the bossing teams to try harder to find SI, I don't think it would change as much. [this entire calculation collapses if i misunderstood how the multipiler works lol]
Strafe being 125% damage is only the same as adding an extra arrow if said arrow is always a non critical. I didn't read through your whole post but 5 arrows at 100% damage is stronger than 4 arrows at 125% damage because of crit. (All with maxed SE) 100% Strafe with 4 arrows hits an average of 928% damage per strafe. 125% Strafe with 4 arrows hits an average of 1028% damage per strafe. 100% Strafe with 5 arrows hits an average of 1160% damage per strafe. The reason for this is that each of your hits has a chance to be critical and critical with SE adds +240% damage. I don't know what this means for your calculations but I just wanted to clear this up. *** If any of my math is wrong someone please feel free to correct me
This is wrong, critical shot+SE will give you +240% damage so the average damage per arrow is 232% As you can see the 25% extra damage is actually quite insignificant as it will only give you around a 10% DPS boost or less (since crit is additive and not a multiplier) If you want to calculate then 4 arrows with 125% will deal 1028% on average and 5 arrows with 100% will deal 1160%. In comparsion a strafe with 150% damage per hit will do 1128% so you'd need around 160% strafe damage to match the average damage of a 5 arrow 100% strafe
I knew I forgot to add something somewhere, I should've just looked at my damage in game to make sure lol. I've fixed my post. But yeah, the 25% increase per arrow is pretty insignificant, though a solid 10% buff anyway.
Oh lol, ok so my calculation is quite the overestimation. I thought the crit effects the already modified damage instead of a seperate bonus.
Hmm if we look at it that way, then I doubt MM can match up to BM when both are similarly funded competitively. But honestly its best to just to “feel” it out once the update is live and only then follow up calculations
I've done some quick maths for the updated numbers here in my post, feel free to check it out as I compare my MM's damage to a BM at the end: https://royals.ms/forum/threads/mar...yre-somewhat-ok-now.116184/page-3#post-701941
@Evan So, now that the new update is here, I want to hear the opinion of a long time MM on the changes :3
Updated with stuff from 54... and other stuff. Plus more stuff. Still have more to add but I am sleepy. Thanks for reading!
@Evan hmm, i don’t think that it was such a dramatic boost of 18%. Once i get the time ill try to do a calculation myself to cross check with your result. Also, it might be my biased opinion, but i think that stats that compare MM vs BM are more interesting than% damage increase. Because at the end of the day, damage of MM scales differently from any other class considering they have a flat damage attack in their combo. P.S you should mention the changes to hp washing, new players might not know about the boost to base HP of all classes.
Is there anything wrong if I want to max Snipe then Marksman Boost rather than Marksman Boost followed by Snipe? With the reduction in cooldown at earlier levels from 270s to 33s, it feels much nicer to use it as I level up over Boost which reduces the RNG damage of Strafe. I'm not sure if Boost gives such an increase in overall DPS that makes making Snipe first simply not worth it. I'm still just 128 that's going to finish maxing SE soon so I'm just wondering if it's advisable to max Snipe then Boost.
It might make grinding more annoying for you, as upgrading snipe won’t make your clear that much faster. Also, snipe sees the biggest boost of dps to you when you put points at the end. So i say its all about when you want to start bossing and if you are buying leech / leeching yourself to lvl 139-140 or not. Having max snipe at lvl 140 is a pretty good way of getting good boss exp if you are not funded. But if you plan on grinding like evan suggests, then boost is the way to go
What happened to that extremely in depth guide wip marksman guide that was on here? Was really looking forward to him finishing it. I love the ultra in depth hashing out every skill mechanic and function kind of guides.
The old guide was no longer updated by the poster- I don't know if this is the guide you are talking about though. To answer your other question (which was missed sorry), it should work with any skill that doesn't function at close range (aka makes you bowsmack)
Hey I made an insane yet reasonable but not nostalgic MM dump thread if anyone is interested https://royals.ms/forum/threads/extremely-dreamy-mm-qol-and-skills.135008/
